DVC Occupancy Thread Part 2

bookwormde

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Mar 16, 2008
It's not quite that easy and for items that are not in the best interest of the membership (at that resort) as a whole, it takes a vote of the members themselves. My opinion is that this is not in the best interest of the membership as a whole plus I doubt DVC would change the occupancy upwards of any resort without the additional bath, even if they could.
Yes DVC is required to do what is in the best interest of the membership, but there is not requirement for a vote either by memebership or at the yearly meeting for the vast majority of items including occupancy. so yes DVC can change the occupancy anytime they want making the POS irrelevent. Should they then notify the members, yes, do they, no.

To argue the other side, if occupancy were higher for cash (same as members) the units from CRO would be in higher demand and therefore DVC could demand a higher reimbersemetn rate when CRO takes them in trade or as breakage, and that could lower dues. (of course this reuires that DVC agressively negotiates with Disney)
 

Dean

DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis
Joined
Aug 19, 1999
Yes DVC is required to do what is in the best interest of the membership, but there is not requirement for a vote either by memebership or at the yearly meeting for the vast majority of items including occupancy. so yes DVC can change the occupancy anytime they want making the POS irrelevent. Should they then notify the members, yes, do they, no.

To argue the other side, if occupancy were higher for cash (same as members) the units from CRO would be in higher demand and therefore DVC could demand a higher reimbersemetn rate when CRO takes them in trade or as breakage, and that could lower dues. (of course this reuires that DVC agressively negotiates with Disney)
As I read the POS (articles of Incorporation, Dec. of Condo & By-laws), and taking into account the voting representative structure, they can add to but not take away from the rights of the membership. Anything that significantly took away from the membership as a whole would need to be voted on by the membership and require a 60% majority (IIRC). Exceptions would be where changes were required to keep them in line with state laws and similar. IMO, the only legit argument as it applies to this question is whether this situation met that requirement, IMO it does but I could see both sides of the argument. Since the ability to trade for cash or other exchange options is not a POS function, the increased value there for a subset of the membership would not be a question as it applies to the POS nor a benefit to the membership as a whole since it's only a small minority that use the option with the exception of the breakage inventory (which is capped and maxes out usually anyway).

I would also direct you to the Master Cotenancy agreement and the voting representative section and rules.
 

bookwormde

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Mar 16, 2008
Yes there are voting rights, but the items that are not covered by DVC's management authority are very limited.
 
  • abk96

    Remember the true heroes, our police, firefighters
    Joined
    Apr 30, 2005
    The difference is that BC has sleeping space for five people even if the square footage is not all that comfortable for five. Most hotels and resorts don't allow you to book more people in a room than there are spaces to sleep. We (family of five) run into this all the time with other chains. There are certain hotels we know to look for because they have sleeping space for five.

    Disney did not build suites and villas to accomodate extra guests sleeping on the floor. They have suites and villas to provide a more comfortable stay, a home away from home atmophere, and it makes perfect sense that the number of guests is limited to the number of sleeping spaces. DVC members being allowed to book five in a villa that sleeps four is a perk... an unofficial perk, I guess, but not really different from other perks that DVC members and other groups get. Not all DVC members agree with the "perk" of five in a villa that sleeps four, and not all members take advantage of it. We've always booked a 2BR for the five of us, and a lot of couples book a 1BR villa for two people, or a 2BR for four people.
    So you are saying that one person without a bed is a perk for members?

    I used to be a member and that is not a perk.

    Did anyone realize to think that 3 children can fit comfortably in the king bed and 2 adults in the queen sleeper. Just a thought here.

    I also read back on the first thread (that was closed) this same topic about 5 in a one bedroom not being a perk and everyone arguing in favor of it not being a perk. So make up your minds. You can't have it both ways. Sorry.

    And it is written that only 4 can be in a one bedroom in the contracts and that's legal.
     

    Deb & Bill

    DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
    Joined
    Mar 20, 2000
    ...Did anyone realize to think that 3 children can fit comfortably in the king bed and 2 adults in the queen sleeper. Just a thought here..l.
    Like that is going to happen with any sensible adult parents. :rotfl:
    Give up the master bedroom to three small kids??? Hah!
     

    Chuck S

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Feb 6, 2000
    And it is written that only 4 can be in a one bedroom in the contracts and that's legal.
    It is also written that DVC can unilaterally change most of the POS at their whim. There are a few exceptions to that, but I don't see where occupancy is one of them.
     

    abk96

    Remember the true heroes, our police, firefighters
    Joined
    Apr 30, 2005
    Like that is going to happen with any sensible adult parents. :rotfl:
    Give up the master bedroom to three small kids??? Hah!
    Are you implying that I'm not a sensible adult parent?

    We're not moving in here people. Just a week vacation with family. Family is the key word here.
     

    staceymay00

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 12, 2008
    So you are saying that one person without a bed is a perk for members?

    I used to be a member and that is not a perk.

    Did anyone realize to think that 3 children can fit comfortably in the king bed and 2 adults in the queen sleeper. Just a thought here.

    I also read back on the first thread (that was closed) this same topic about 5 in a one bedroom not being a perk and everyone arguing in favor of it not being a perk. So make up your minds. You can't have it both ways. Sorry.

    And it is written that only 4 can be in a one bedroom in the contracts and that's legal.
    I don't think my family of five will ever book a 1BR that sleeps four even though DVC will let us, so no, personally I don't see that as a perk. We have so far even avoided the 1BRs that sleeps five people in favor of a 2BR. One of the reasons we bought DVC was to have more space, not bring an air mattress for one of my kids to sleep on the floor, and certainly not for me and my husband to sleep on a pullout while my three kids sleep in the king size bed. Other people might not mind that on vacation; fine with me as long as they don't have more people in their room than listed on their reservation. DVC members have that option of five in a 1BR...advantage, perk, whatever your want to call it...and people booking through CRO do not. I'm not saying I agree with DVC members being allowed to do that, but I don't see it as some injustice to non-members. We've only been members for a couple of years and it never bothered me in the past that DVC members could book five in a 1BR at BCV, for example, but we could not do the same through CRO. We weren't entitled to do that just because DVC members could do so.
     

    Dean

    DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    Yes there are voting rights, but the items that are not covered by DVC's management authority are very limited.
    Actually I don' think that's accurate when you look at the POS as a whole. DVCMC has a legal and fiduciary responsibility to run the resorts for the members, not Disney. Plus the POS clearly states that the voting rep cannot vote for things that are clearly not in the best interest of the membership as a whole. The only things Disney has complete control of are reservation procedures and the working of the club as the resorts interact and event then, the above restrictions apply.

    It is also written that DVC can unilaterally change most of the POS at their whim. There are a few exceptions to that, but I don't see where occupancy is one of them.
    I am certain that DVC can't change the occupancy on a whim and I'm also certain they wouldn't do it even if they could.
     

    rnorwo1

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 23, 2006
    Are there any studios that will allow 2 adults and 3 kids? Our youngest just turned 3. Thanks!
     

    Chuck S

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Feb 6, 2000
    No, there are no studios that allow 5, you would need a one bedroom as a minimum.
     

    madelyn

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 24, 2000
    No, there are no studios that allow 5, you would need a one bedroom as a minimum.
    And that one bedroom cannot be a value 1 bedroom at Jambo House. And there are no connecting studios so 2 studios would not be an option unless the adults wanted to split up and go to a separate studio to be with the kids.
     

    rnorwo1

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 23, 2006
    POR and some of the deluxes have a day bed.

    Denise in MI
    No, there are no studios that allow 5, you would need a one bedroom as a minimum.
    And that one bedroom cannot be a value 1 bedroom at Jambo House. And there are no connecting studios so 2 studios would not be an option unless the adults wanted to split up and go to a separate studio to be with the kids.
    Thanks, that's what I thought. We didn't count on our third child when we bought! May be time for an add on.
     

    mopee3

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 24, 2007
    So while you are bantering back and forth, has anyone stayed in WLV with 9 people, I think it would be really crowded but might save a few points in getting a studio to take the overflow.

    Moe
     

    bookwormde

    <font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad
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    Mar 16, 2008
    The requirement to run the time share in the best interests of the majority of memebers is actually part of FL state law and regulation, and is just mirrored in some of the documentation.

    I am quite sure that DVC would say that everyting they do including changing occupancy is the best interests of the majority of members.
     

    Deb & Bill

    DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
    Joined
    Mar 20, 2000
    So while you are bantering back and forth, has anyone stayed in WLV with 9 people, I think it would be really crowded but might save a few points in getting a studio to take the overflow.

    Moe
    It used to be they would allow five in the one bedroom meant for four, but not extra children under the age of three (so no six in the room with one under three).

    Likewise, they didn't allow nine in the two bedrooms that sleep eight unless the ninth person was under the age of three. No extra three or older. Not sure they still stick with that rule or not.

    But if you were to have nine in a two bedroom, at least half or more would need to be kids to make me comfortable. I couldn't imagine nine full grown people in a room that size. Just too crowded. Even the rooms that currently sleep nine just seem too small to fit nine full sized people in the villa.
     

    Belle & Ariel

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 19, 2008
    Are there any studios that will allow 2 adults and 3 kids? Our youngest just turned 3. Thanks!
    We have had 5 at Boardwalk in a studio. They enter request for what they used to call the deluxe studios (now they all are called that) though it is not guaranteed you will get one. They have a wooden bench with a thin cushion that they call a daybed. It is about 4 feet long. Since there is no guarantee of getting such a room, we always brought a blow up mattress which we put over by the entrance door.
    Our girls are married and have not been with us for a few years, but when they did I only remember getting the room with the daybed once.
    We had always been told they will book one over stated occupancy but you had to bring bedding and towels for that person.
     

    Chuck S

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Feb 6, 2000
    We have had 5 at Boardwalk in a studio. They enter request for what they used to call the deluxe studios (now they all are called that) though it is not guaranteed you will get one. They have a wooden bench with a thin cushion that they call a daybed. It is about 4 feet long. Since there is no guarantee of getting such a room, we always brought a blow up mattress which we put over by the entrance door.
    Our girls are married and have not been with us for a few years, but when they did I only remember getting the room with the daybed once.
    We had always been told they will book one over stated occupancy but you had to bring bedding and towels for that person.
    They used to be called Studio Plus when the resort first opened. They are the dedicated studios that do not connect to a one bedroom to form a 2 bedroom lock-off unit. There have been some reports that many units have had the "daybeds" removed during the last rehab, and that they will no longer book 5 people, unless one is under age 3 and sleeps in a pak-n-play.
     

    Brian Noble

    Gratefully in Recovery
    Joined
    Mar 23, 2004
    has anyone stayed in WLV with 9 people, I think it would be really crowded but might save a few points in getting a studio to take the overflow.
    I don't think I'd do this, personally. Units at VWL (along with the other "2nd generation" resorts: BWV, BCV, and SSR) are all on the small side, particularly in the kitchen/living room area. We thought a 2BR there was just about right for our family of four. Six would have been tight. I can't imagine eight.

    If you want to try this, look at a 2BR at BLT (third bathroom, officially sleeps nine), AKV-Kidani (ditto), or OKW (huge!) And, even at OKW, 9 might be problematic.
     

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