DVC-How did you finance

[swich2mac]

Folks,

I think that we are getting way off base here. Let's all just enjoy the investment that we all have made for the sake of families, others, or ourselves! No need to keep attacking one another as we are all family, being DVC members. We can all agree that the TVM (Time Value of Money) tomorrow is far less than what it is worth today. Having said, you are able to secure future vacations today for less.

Now, to only figure out why the "instant email notification" feature is not working or delayed by about 12 hours!

 

[Daitcher]

But how do you guarentee a promotion like F and F in the future? CW says the price per point will go up... yes you got unlucky (and so did I frankly) but that happens. SOmeone missing F and F would have to pay $98 a point right now. SO they would pay more.

There is no hurry to buy in. Once someone has the cash look for a great promotion. Promotions vary but it is only a matter of time until another good one will be offered.


DAVE

 

[Daitcher]

I am happy you can Scott. My savings are for emergency and retirement. I would rather finance it... After all it is my money and I am not really sure what right you or Dave or anyone else has to say we are fools for financing.

We are not saying you are fools. We are simply offering advice that financing isn't the best route. You disagree. This is the nature of boards like this, differing opinions.

DAVE

 

[Daitcher]

That's my point dave, you didn't JUST offer an opinion. Your post comes off like it is THE ONLY choice and anyone who finances or uses home equity, etc is an idiot... Even if you don't use those exact words, your post drips with that tone.

This is an opinion:

I think you should wait until you can pay with cash. I know it can be hard to save, but if you run into trouble and get over extended, lose a job, or have a severe extended illness, you will not lose your DVC, nor will it be one more thing you have to come up with money for per month.


That to me would have been much better than what you wrote.

No, that is a politically correct opinion trying not to hurt someone's feelings. I write mine like I believe what I'm saying. I'm not wishy washy or afraid to tell it like it is. Sometimes the truth hurts. I'm not going to validate someones desire to buy into DVC at any cost. If they want to do that, fine but I can't in good faith recommend financing. Sorry if my posts aren't politically correct or sensitive enough. I just call it like I see it. I'm not trying to say anyone is an idiot who finances.

DAVE

 

[DisFlan]

I have no problem paying to use someone elses money. Having said that, I think using financing through Disney is not a wise decision, you have to pay too much to use their funds. 10%!!!! There are cheaper sources to get cash.

We had always planned to pay cash and we did. But, wow, that 10% really bothered us! No way would we have ever considered it. WAY too high. (No, I'm not calling the people who financed through Disney "idiots". We felt that it would have been a poor financial decision for us.) But JimFitz is right - their are better alternatives.

DisFlan

 

[lovinthemouse]

If you can't pay cash, wait until you can.

NO!!!

 

[vascubaguy]

Here is my thinking...... If you can "afford DVC" then why can't you pay cash? If you aren't saving or have no savings to speak of then you have no business buying into a timeshare. I use this term all the time, it is a luxury purchase. It should only be for those with disposable income. Also paying cash for things really helps you decide what is important. It is far to easy to just make another bill. You'll really know you want it when you hand over a check to DVC for $30,000. Wait everyone until you've saved the money, believe me it will be far more satisfying that way than paying thousands of dollars in interest for a non neccesity.
DAVE

Being able to "afford DVC" doesn't mean the same as being able to "pay cash for DVC". I have savings and I have other investments; however, I did not have the liquidty to support purchasing all of the points. Furthermore, I did not want to pull money from those investments to fund DVC. Instead, I opted to use someone elses money at 0% interest. So, I can afford to pay all of my bills and use the "disposable" money that I would be putting towards savings for DVC towards the DVC itself (in my case it isn't costing me anything). Now, the benefit is that I have the DVC now and am able to use it. Thus I have today's point prices AND I'm not going to be paying $2,000 for accommodations for my upcoming trip, which would have pulled from that pool of savings!

Besides, having 1 luxury purchase on credit forces me to focus on paying off that purchase. I know if I don't get it paid off, I'll have to pay interest (and I really don't like doing that). So, for me it is 1 luxury purchase at a time, then I get them paid off (usually within a year). First it was replacement windows, then central heat/ac, then an addition to my house, now DVC. Oh... scratch that 1 at a time thing.... I just bought a plasma HDTV last week...

Oh well... off to the poor house with me.... do they get cable there? and high-speed internet?


I was just thinking.... we should probably all just agree to disagree on whether financing is "right or wrong" because it really depends on the person and their situation(s).

Besides, I believe the original question was "How did you finance?"

 

[bounceliketigger]

Your're probably tired of reading these replies, but I absolutely agree with NO HOME EQUITY LINE! Loan maybe, but not LINE. Many people do not know those lines are REALLY bad for your credit report. And, unless you can be super diligent & pay in excess to pay that thing off, you are really going to take a beating in the long run.

We financed through Disney for now & are shopping for a lower rate. (Disney was 9.75--not bad, not the best). However, many lenders will not do a mortgage for this and look at it as a personal loan, for which rates tend to be much higher. If you're like me, you don't have an extra 20grand laying around. Financing with Disney was no muss, no fuss, done more or less immediately, no income verification if your credit is good (over 650 I think) & they do not report to the credit agencies so it doesn't show up as a debt against your debt to income ratio.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Ummmm, I believe that my response was quick, non-abrasive, and made to the original poster who asked the question. NOT YOU!

If it is on the forum it is to everyone to see and comment on... that is why they make PMs. I disagree and found it quite abrasive as did a few others. We all have different perceptions of our statements.

 

[yitbos96bb]

We are not saying you are fools. We are simply offering advice that financing isn't the best route. You disagree. This is the nature of boards like this, differing opinions.

DAVE

Again, it didn't come off as an opinion when you guys first posted. For the record, if someone had come out saying that people are idiots who pay for DVC all in cash, I would have chastised them as well. It wasn't the message but how it was portrayed. No worries, all is good.

 

[yitbos96bb]

No, that is a politically correct opinion trying not to hurt someone's feelings. I write mine like I believe what I'm saying. I'm not wishy washy or afraid to tell it like it is. Sometimes the truth hurts. I'm not going to validate someones desire to buy into DVC at any cost. If they want to do that, fine but I can't in good faith recommend financing. Sorry if my posts aren't politically correct or sensitive enough. I just call it like I see it. I'm not trying to say anyone is an idiot who finances.

DAVE

Now you have hit one of my pet peeves - people who misuse the word Politically correct because they don't understand or really know what the word means. There are a few more words out there like that, but we won't go into those...

"Politically Correct -
Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation. "

My friend, you are so grossly misusing the word politically correct right now it isn't funny. No it isn't a politically correct opinion because that word doesn't apply to this conversation. There is nothing in this conversation that is dealing with a political topic of change nor addressing the historical injustices. A politically correct statement might be calling someone an African-American instead of using the word black. The statement I gave above was politely expressing an opinion; it has nothing to do with being politically correct.

This has nothing to do with being wishy washy or "telling it like it is." One can "tell it like it is" and still be polite. But your statement above of "tell it like it is" makes it seem that you feel your "opinion" is fact and the only correct way for someone to go.

Let us look at what you wrote:

"Hold off the purchase until you can pay cash. If you can't pay cash for the buy in, you cannot afford it. Not a popular stance on here but it is the truth."

If only our Government would stick to this statement. But that is not the topic at hand. You state that if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it... you say it is the truth. That doesn't really come off as an opinion, but as a fact. But it isn't... I couldn't pay cash for that entire purchase, because if I did my cash savings would be gone and if something happened I would be in trouble. But I make more than enough to pay the monthly payment plus extra. So I can easily afford it without depleting reserves. As seen by others this is the case with many. Here are a few more statements...

"If you can "afford DVC" then why can't you pay cash? If you aren't saving or have no savings to speak of then you have no business buying into a timeshare....It should only be for those with disposable income."

"Your post is a good one but false on one account. You are wrong in the assumption that people will pay more by waiting."

These all come off like your statement is the ONLY correct thing. They don't come off as an opinion.

And please remember polite and politically correct are not the same thing. Don't disparage a word if you do not know the words meaning.

 

[Disneyrsh]

I have so many potential responses to this that I do not even know where to begin. Suffice it to say, I'd bet you that there's not a single person posting on these boards who is completely debt free. I know very few people who purchase cars, homes, or much anything else without taking on some debt. And those who can afford to do so probably aren't too worried about buying into the DVC.

Regardless, it's all a matter of perspective and priorities, and obviously each person will have different views on those things. But I think most would agree that not all debt is bad, nor will debt necessarily lead to the next "Great Depression" (which your post seems to suggest is coming).

Well, no, I don't think the next Great Depression is coming; the factors that caused that particular fiasco don't necessarily apply to modern society (specifically safeguards put in place after Black Friday to stop another stock market crash). My post simply stated a fact: Americans have more debt in proportion to their income that at any other time in history since the Great Depression. Whether it's a halcyon or a side effect of the popularity of Rooms To Go is anybody's guess.

Again, you argue a point I never made: all debt is bad. Never said it; don't believe it. Even Dave Ramsey has no problem with a mortgage. As long as it's not interest only .

What I'm saying is, specifically, that creative debt balancing and financing have led a lot of people to believe they can afford things that they can't, and it is causing a lot of people a lot of grief.

 

[yitbos96bb]

We had always planned to pay cash and we did. But, wow, that 10% really bothered us! No way would we have ever considered it. WAY too high. (No, I'm not calling the people who financed through Disney "idiots". We felt that it would have been a poor financial decision for us.) But JimFitz is right - their are better alternatives.

DisFlan

I can see your and Jims statement that Disney is high. It is (although Polo's financing was 15%. Did theres and then transferred it) The only thing I can say about it is that the monthly payments are much less than what one would get on a credit card. This allows someone to pay more if they want to, but if there is an emergency it is less than they are required to pay per month. For that, they must pay a higher fee in the form of interest, but they can deduct it as well (if they don't have a second home, etc.) It isn't the best decision value wise but it can be helpful... It saved us when I got laid off and we didn't have to dip into savings as much. And nothing in your tone would have ever made me think you were calling any disney financers idiots. You just thought the rate was high (and it is... although comparatively to other timeshares it is acutally competetive... pretty sad). I agree with both of you... even though I am disney financed right now (and we got additional money off by financing with them, although not as good as F and F) I think there are better ways.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Well, no, I don't think the next Great Depression is coming; the factors that caused that particular fiasco don't necessarily apply to modern society (specifically safeguards put in place after Black Friday to stop another stock market crash). My post simply stated a fact: Americans have more debt in proportion to their income that at any other time in history since the Great Depression. Whether it's a halcyon or a side effect of the popularity of Rooms To Go is anybody's guess.

Again, you argue a point I never made: all debt is bad. Never said it; don't believe it. Even Dave Ramsey has no problem with a mortgage. As long as it's not interest only .

What I'm saying is, specifically, that creative debt balancing and financing have led a lot of people to believe they can afford things that they can't, and it is causing a lot of people a lot of grief.

Actually Interest Only mortgages can be a very good thing if one is flipping houses. They are valuable in that business capacity. Unfortunately, most people who have one aren't doing this.

I agree with you that creative debt balancing is bad for a lot of people. But I think it is a case by case basis. There are a lot of factors involved. It can be bad... but it isn't always.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I was just thinking.... we should probably all just agree to disagree on whether financing is "right or wrong" because it really depends on the person and their situation(s)."

I agree... it really does depend on the persona nd the situation.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Actually Interest Only mortgages can be a very good thing if one is flipping houses.

I agree with you that creative debt balancing is bad for a lot of people. But I think it is a case by case basis. There are a lot of factors involved. It can be bad... but it isn't always.

I agree, let's disagree!

 

[yitbos96bb]

I agree, let's disagree!

I just was making the point that it does have its purpose. During the real estate boom I made a nice little sum flipping houses. The houses were bought with interest only loans because they have the smallest payments. When only keeping a house for a month or two, the less the payment the better things are. But as I said, for a normal house I agree an interest only loan is a dangerous thing. Many analysts think that if many of the Californians (and at last count I thinkt hey make up over 50% of the mortgages in Californian) that have this type of mortgage default, it will crash the real estate market.

 

[DisFlan]

I can see your and Jims statement that Disney is high. It is (although Polo's financing was 15%. Did theres and then transferred it) The only thing I can say about it is that the monthly payments are much less than what one would get on a credit card. This allows someone to pay more if they want to, but if there is an emergency it is less than they are required to pay per month. For that, they must pay a higher fee in the form of interest, but they can deduct it as well (if they don't have a second home, etc.) It isn't the best decision value wise but it can be helpful... It saved us when I got laid off and we didn't have to dip into savings as much. And nothing in your tone would have ever made me think you were calling any disney financers idiots. You just thought the rate was high (and it is... although comparatively to other timeshares it is acutally competetive... pretty sad). I agree with both of you... even though I am disney financed right now (and we got additional money off by financing with them, although not as good as F and F) I think there are better ways.

Okay, this is the way we feel about DVC (or any timeshare, for that matter)...it's purely a luxury purchase. It should be purchased with money you have in hand and that you will never miss if anything should go awry in the future. It should be "pay it and forget it," money, not "expensive", month-to-month money. It shouldn't be on a credit card - of any kind. It shouldn't displace or be part of your home equity, 401k, IRA or other "important" savings for the future (like college or health care.) It should be money that you don't need now and won't need for anything else. Ever.

Yes, people need vacations, but there are cheaper vacation venues than Disney. DVC is great. But it is not a necessity. It is a desire, a very deep and immediate desire in many prospective buyers - and DVC's "easy financing" plays heavily on this point.

This is our view and paying cash was our choice. If other folks choose to do it differently, that's their business. And I honestly DO wish them luck, happiness and many years of enjoyment when they purchase DVC.

DisFlan

 

[byoung]

We where able to pay cash.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Okay, this is the way we feel about DVC (or any timeshare, for that matter)...it's purely a luxury purchase. It should be purchased with money you have in hand and that you will never miss if anything should go awry in the future. It should be "pay it and forget it," money, not "expensive", month-to-month money. It shouldn't be on a credit card - of any kind. It shouldn't displace or be part of your home equity, 401k, IRA or other "important" savings for the future (like college or health care.) It should be money that you don't need now and won't need for anything else. Ever.

Yes, people need vacations, but there are cheaper vacation venues than Disney. DVC is great. But it is not a necessity. It is a desire, a very deep and immediate desire in many prospective buyers - and DVC's "easy financing" plays heavily on this point.

This is our view and paying cash was our choice. If other folks choose to do it differently, that's their business. And I honestly DO wish them luck, happiness and many years of enjoyment when they purchase DVC.

DisFlan

I think that is a good philosophy. That is pretty much how we did it, without the cash because we didn't want to deplete our resevoir. We didn't adjust 401K, IRAs or other savings. The only thing that got adjusted was our vacation account (a majority went to DVC, with a little still going to vacation for plane tickets, etc) and our personal money (we each put part of our personal money). THe only time DVC would even have been an issue was when I was laid off, but it would have taken a while for it to really become one. We tightened up, and had the compensation package and dipped into savings. We could even have sold our points for another 6-7 months of DVC payments (love the rental value on DVC). Luckily, I was fortunate enough to get a new job quickly.

The one good thing about DVC over all other timeshares is that at least resell is pretty good. If someone gets ina pinch they won't lose too much, and might make money (off the original purchase). At least we are all fortunate there.