DVC has lost focus

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

Ummm, if someone is at that point, they have no business owing DVC in the first place, IMHO.

Disney is a vacation, which is a luxury, and DVC is even more of a luxury purchase since you have to put up thousands of dollars upfront for a lifetime of vacations.

I am not following you here...Tiger

I am just saying it is not fiscally responsible to justify a purchase like that in a recession. Maybe something else would make more financial sense like a quarter share in a condo unit from one of the top 5 timeshares? I am just playing devils advocate.

I already own at Disney and have enough points to vacation there every year. Maybe the money that I am adding on to disney could be better spent at another company. That way I can still go to disney but spend my money somewhere that it is more effective. 75 - 100 points is like 10000+ dollars investment. Plus you don't own it forever.

I'm just saying.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

The resorts added to the no pool hopping list were new resorts (AKL, BLT, AoA). No location was taken away.

We got free internet when everyone else was paying if they wanted it. Now everyone is free, do you count that as a perk lost?

Other than valet parking, I can't think of anything major we lost. The deal with that was valet parking was outsourced so dues would have been increased to keep the benefit.

Wifi is a great thing! However, these are things that are resort wide on property. Regular guests get this also.

I am not going to nag here. I just notice a difference. Like I said I still love my membership but it feels like somethings are missing from the days past.

 

[tjkraz]

The things I am saying are not in the booklets they were directly attached to the membership at the time they were selling the units.

Like what?

Like for example pool hopping. You originally could go to most pools except for Yacht and Beach if you were not staying there. Now the list has grown. I don't pool hop ever but I have noticed that this is another one that keeps changing.

There are more restrictions but I don't believe members have any less pool hopping access than they did 5 or 10 years ago.

Members have always been banned from the Animal Kingdom Lodge pool. The current rule is simply a continuation in that regard.

Bay Cove pool at BLT is excluded but it didn't exist 5+ years ago. Was never part of pool hopping. Hopping to the Contemporary main pool is still permitted.

Art of Animation is excluded but again that's a new one.

So yes there are more exclusions but nothing lost, if my memory is correct.

Maybe there are more being taken away than being added? Could be why this same conversation keeps coming up. We should start a spreadsheet. LOL

I think it has more to do with people fixating on one perk they really liked--usually valet parking--rather than seeing the big picture.

Maybe by moving to this price point there will be fewer people buying who perhaps should not have bought in the first place and DVC won't have to deal with taking back and trying to unload distressed contracts?

Exactly...but it's more than that. Generally speaking if you can sell fewer items at a higher price point and still earn the same revenues, you're better off. Fewer resources required (in this case, the resources are $100 million hotels), fewer customers to support, lower staffing requirements, etc.

The Parks & Resorts side of the business does want larger and larger crowds. Fortunately they have 30,000 cash hotel rooms to draw from plus millions of locals and off-site day guests.

The DVC side of the business wants maximum profitability with minimal investment.

 

[Tara]

My point is, it is way above the market basket for inflation. It is bordering on price gouging. At what point do we say "I just can't go anymore because it makes me broke and I can't feed my family"?

The current price of points has absolutely no bearing on an existing member's ability to use their existing points. If the price goes up, what does it matter to me? I am not planning on adding on. If anything, I see the current price and just think I'm glad I bought when I did.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

On the positive side of things, I have to say that the resort list has grown and in that so has my experiences. Like for example being able to cruise on the Dream and Fantasy has been added to the list. Yay us

 

[Tara]

I am just saying it is not fiscally responsible to justify a purchase like that in a recession. Maybe something else would make more financial sense like a quarter share in a condo unit from one of the top 5 timeshares? I am just playing devils advocate.

I already own at Disney and have enough points to vacation there every year. Maybe the money that I am adding on to disney could be better spent at another company. That way I can still go to disney but spend my money somewhere that it is more effective. 75 - 100 points is like 10000+ dollars investment. Plus you don't own it forever.

I'm just saying.

The business I work for has been busier than ever for the last 4 years. I've had steady, generous raises and bonuses. Yes, there's a recession. No, it hasn't impacted me. Recessions generally don't impact every person the same way, and some businesses actually thrive in a recession. You are in no position to say what is and isn't fiscally responsible for anyone other than yourself.

 

[Tiger926]

I am just saying it is not fiscally responsible to justify a purchase like that in a recession. Maybe something else would make more financial sense like a quarter share in a condo unit from one of the top 5 timeshares? I am just playing devils advocate.

I already own at Disney and have enough points to vacation there every year. Maybe the money that I am adding on to disney could be better spent at another company. That way I can still go to disney but spend my money somewhere that it is more effective. 75 - 100 points is like 10000+ dollars investment. Plus you don't own it forever.

I'm just saying.

Maybe not for you, but for thousands of others, the recession is not an issue. It isn't for us, and it isn't for much of our friends and family members either, so there are lots of potential DVC customers right here.

So, if adding on will mean that you can't feed your family, then you have big issues to contend with, but they are your issues, as they may not be relevant to the rest of us.

The business I work for has been busier than ever for the last 4 years. I've had steady, generous raises and bonuses. Yes, there's a recession. No, it hasn't impacted me. Recessions generally don't impact every person the same way, and some businesses actually thrive in a recession. You are in no position to say what is and isn't fiscally responsible for anyone other than yourself.

Exactly!

Tiger

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

The business I work for has been busier than ever for the last 4 years. I've had steady, generous raises and bonuses. Yes, there's a recession. No, it hasn't impacted me. Recessions generally don't impact every person the same way, and some businesses actually thrive in a recession. You are in no position to say what is and isn't fiscally responsible for anyone other than yourself.

I am not speaking for you definitely! I agree that recessions don't impact everyone but it does effect entire areas and with that large sums of people. It looks like you are doing well. I am saying for those of us that are feeling the pressure. It just is not fiscally responsible to make a "luxury" purchase when you are on a tight budget. It doesn't make financial sense. I could buy an add-on tomorrow if I wanted to but it might be responsible to hold off for a while or invest elsewhere. IMHO

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

Exactly!

Tiger

Good for you guys! I am glad someone is benefiting from this.

 

[Tiger926]

Good for you guys! I am glad someone is benefiting from this.

Please don't get me wrong, as we are not adding on whatsoever. But, I had friends who did several times this year, and so for them, the price was fine.

Best of luck to you in enjoying your DVC! Tiger

 

[MsTessP]

Great point, but at what level does Disney start to see the profit curve start to plane out because the prices are to high for the guests to enjoy.

I constantly get letters from my DVC guide offering me the latest and greatest "Specials". I am almost paid up on my loan and I was thinking of adding on 75 or 100 points. Well, I can't do that now because all the price increases since I bought in.

We are not talking about pennies and dimes. This is 30-40 dollars per point during a recession. That is "per point" I repeat. Even if I wanted to I couldn't do that during a recession.

Now I am also a shareholder and the stocks are doing well. Bob Iger has a goal of 60 dollars a share and he is surely making profits. The stock continues to go up. Those profits are the result of raising ticket prices year over year(100+) 3D theater prices, and many other services hikes like dining plans and more.

My point is, it is way above the market basket for inflation. It is bordering on price gouging. At what point do we say "I just can't go anymore because it makes me broke and I can't feed my family"?

There's the rub in a nutshell, but I wouldn't say it is "price gouging". Disney does not sell essentials such as food and shelter and is not the only supplier of such items. Disney offers vacation opportunities along many price points but, ultimately, it is the individual family who must determine if they can afford a Disney vacation (or any vacation), let alone a DVC membership.

Disney offers a product at a price that they carefully determine to be high enough to keep generating a strong profit, with the ability to counter some extremely costly mistakes and unforeseen circumstances, ie, John Carter, California Adventure, a weak economy, and a travel and vacation industry which appears to be getting healthier but would be totally dead once more if - God forbid - the unthinkable happens again.

If they choose to charge more than the market can bear, or if their quality goes down so that people feel they are no longer getting their money's worth and sales go down, then they will be forced to re-evaluate their pricing structure. At that point, I believe we will see prices come down. Until that happens, not so much.

 

[DougEMG]

I
Maybe by moving to this price point there will be fewer people buying who perhaps should not have bought in the first place and DVC won't have to deal with taking back and trying to unload distressed contracts?

That's an interesting idea. I guess we'll see by how many and how fast GF contracts appear on the resale market.

 

[Tara]

I am not speaking for you definitely! I agree that recessions don't impact everyone but it does effect entire areas and with that large sums of people. It looks like you are doing well. I am saying for those of us that are feeling the pressure. It just is not fiscally responsible to make a "luxury" purchase when you are on a tight budget. It doesn't make financial sense. I could buy an add-on tomorrow if I wanted to but it might be responsible to hold off for a while or invest elsewhere. IMHO

But that is true of any luxury purchase...it would have been true of an add-on 5 years ago at lower prices just as it is today.

 

[Chuck S]

I was talking about how it was before that schedule they came all the time. I bought in because it was something I saw value in. I love the parks, customer service, and memorable experience. For that my membership has been priceless. I just don't know if it is going to stay magical at the pricing points.

DVC never had daily housekeeping services, they were always on a 4 day schedule since I joined in 1992.

 

[toocherie]

O
Nobody ever said that you shouldn't request additional perks or benefits from DVC. I suspect they have been able to negotiate certain benefits based upon member feedback--the Tables in Wonderland card comes immediately to mind.

But if you think a letter writing campaign is going to convince Disney to discount points 20-30% off of their current levels, you are kidding yourself.

Hey--you guys are forgetting the most important perk we got based on member feedback--restoration of the ceramic coffee mugs in studios!

 

[Chuck S]

Very true, and those are actually perks. But perks are relative to those perk booklets and they have changed over time. The things I am saying are not in the booklets they were directly attached to the membership at the time they were selling the units. Like for example pool hopping. You originally could go to most pools except for Yacht and Beach if you were not staying there. Now the list has grown. I don't pool hop ever but I have noticed that this is another one that keeps changing.

Maybe there are more being taken away than being added? Could be why this same conversation keeps coming up. We should start a spreadsheet. LOL

The list grew as new resorts came online. We did not "lose" any poolhopping, the simply never added the new resorts to the perk. AKL and BLT never allowed poolhopping, so we didn't lose anything.

 

[gmboy95]

DVC has simy grown to big to provide the level of individual care it used to....its a shame!!

 

[Brian Noble]

When I was sold my membership, I have to say that I was told that these were direct benefits to owning membership.

Possibly so. But, you also initialed and signed a declarations page that says, among other things, that you relied only on written material to make your purchase decision, and not verbal representations. (Florida law requires it.)

Like for example pool hopping. You originally could go to most pools except for Yacht and Beach if you were not staying there. Now the list has grown.

Yes, it has. With pools built *since* you purchased. Do you genuinely believe that pool hopping included all future pools that might ever be built in WDW?

Maybe by moving to this price point there will be fewer people buying who perhaps should not have bought in the first place and DVC won't have to deal with taking back and trying to unload distressed contracts?

Doubtful. DVC, like most any timeshare, is an aspirational purchase for a surprisingly large fraction of people who buy in. No matter what the price point is, you'll attract some fraction of aspirational buyers, and some of those folks will eventually default.

 

[Deb & Bill]

IMO there has been a shift at DVD/DVC. Years ago we did feel like we were in a club, then a funny thing happened, DVD/DVC under Jim Lewis became a real money maker for Disney when other business units were having trouble. DVD/DVC grew, projects were green lighted and additional profits were expected. Lewis was given the title of President, exchange companies were changed, a $95 fee was assessed, rules and policies were changed as were some point charts.

MS had trouble keeping up with the growth, DVD/DVC moved into a custom built building, SSR, AKV, THV, BLT, and Aulani were built. DVD opened up remote sales sites, commissioned Realtors in key States, DVD commissions were changed for Guides and ASA's and DVD reached out and started hiring sales people from other timeshare companies.

As the pressure to increase profit increased, BLT costs had to be cut so the quality of interior hard goods were cut as was the HVAC system design. Aulani came to be when it was discovered that Disney Management had set the dues too low. Sales were halted and several Disney Executives were fired including President Lewis.

A new to DVD Vice President with a Disney marketing background was brought on board under a reorganized DVD to clean up the mess and get DVC sales back on track.

DVD makes their money on selling new projects, not resales, not taking care of owners. They will always toss us a bone or two but they know that they have a Disney customer for the life of the contract. If you had limited resources and only so many hours in the day, who would you cater to, the guest who will come to your resort no matter what, or the guest paying cash who may not come back?

That's my take on things.

Bill

As usual, you nailed it, Bill. Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[RobPickles]

I understand the arguement and can see points on both sides.

I am very happy being a DVC Member and love being able to vacation at WDW every year with my family.

However, I think the people who are "unhappy" are that way for a very simple reason:

They want to feel special.

When you look at the way DVC works, you want to feel special for being a member. Now there are a lot of things that make this happen in just being a member in itself. But some people obviously are looking for more.

Prices go up every year for things, tickets, the dining plans, etc. I am guessing that people mostly are feeling that hit and is what is the root of their complaints. The same with the price of points. When you paid ~90 something dollars a point and you want to now do an add-on, you feel weird having to pay ~120+.

Families grow and the price of yours vacation grows with it. The points you spend on that studio might no longer be enough for your family and you need to upgrade to a 1BR. Now you are forced to increase your points to stay the same length of time or you will have to grind your teeth and have a shorter stay.

I see people focusing on the 'perks' of being a DVC Member in order to feel special or keep the magic alive. They want something that someone paying cash for their trip doesn't get, and obviously something significant to help them with the increasing cost of their vacation.

Thanks to my DVC Membership, I pay for only the other things on vacation: airfare, tickets, a Photopass CD and food. I see the AP Discount as a great perk to being a DVC Member. Sure I would love to have free dining (or at least less than it is) because we do eat on propterty mostly and look forward to it. Would I love a special DVC discount on my photopass cd... sure who wouldn't? Would I love some deal with the airlines...sure but that will never happen. I never use valet parking because I don't rent a car anymore and just use the ME and buses to get around. Would I love a better deal on my Dining Plan..hell yeah...Most of the dining discounts offered as perks don't apply for us because unlike a lot of others I have seen mentioned here, we eat on property using the DP and go to the parks almost everyday.

Our trips are ~ 2-3 weeks at a time, once a year and we like to get as much Disney in as we possibly can while we are down there because we know we won't be back at least until next year.

For a family that goes every year for that length of time, yeah I would love to see some more perks, but we take what we can get and enjoy our vacation while we can with as little complaining as possible, because at any given moment it could all be gone anyway.