DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[dioxide45]

None of us know how DVD plans to operate this new trust…

I don't even know if there is an actual land trust yet. We just see articles of incorporation for the trust association. I have searched in the Orange County Comptrollers website for signs of a land trust, but don't actually see it. So we just have the corporation that makes up the association that will oversee the trust.

 

[dioxide45]

I think you are thinking of it wrong. If Poly Tower is all sold to "the trust", but still in the same association, then both deeded owners and owners of the trust would have access to both the tower and longhouses. However, there would be a point limit to both (trust could only book up to the percentage owned by the trust, deeded could book up to percentage owned by deeded).

You are correct. Not sure why I wasn't thinking of it that way.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Why wouldn't there be? The "trust" is just an ownership mechanism of the points. It's independent of the association decision.

But access to a resort would be predicated on the portion (points/unit) that are controlled by either individual owners or the Trust; at least, that's what I keep reading through this whole thread. If DVC 1.0 owners can only access the portion of a resort that resides within DVC 1.0, then conversely, DVC 2.0 members can only access the portion of a resort that resides within the Trust. If that's true (and that's what I've been reading here) AND all of the Poly Tower units are declared into DVC 2.0, then there are no DVC 1.0 points for the Tower.

Now, do I think that will happen? Probably not, but what's stopping DVC from doing so?

 

[tidefan]

But access to a resort would be predicated on the portion (points/unit) that are controlled by either individual owners or the Trust; at least, that's what I keep reading through this whole thread. If DVC 1.0 owners can only access the portion of a resort that resides within DVC 1.0, then conversely, DVC 2.0 members can only access the portion of a resort that resides within the Trust. If that's true (and that's what I've been reading here) AND all of the Poly Tower units are declared into DVC 2.0, then there are no DVC 1.0 points for the Tower.

Now, do I think that will happen? Probably not, but what's stopping DVC from doing so?

But if they are declared into the same association, then it's just a matter of points access. If this has 8m points, then the trust would be able to access 4m points and deeded owners 4m points. They could be used at either property. As mentioned before, this conflates unit ownership with association which are two different things. I own direct at PVB1 and my deed is specified to a certain "unit", but it doesn't mean that that set of a few rooms is all I can stay in at PVB1.

 

[dioxide45]

But if they are declared into the same association, then it's just a matter of points access. If this has 8m points, then the trust would be able to access 4m points and deeded owners 4m points. They could be used at either property. As mentioned before, this conflates unit ownership with association which are two different things. I own direct at PVB1 and my deed is specified to a certain "unit", but it doesn't mean that that set of a few rooms is all I can stay in at PVB1.

The only way they could prevent this would be if they somehow deeded Poly Tower as fixed week fixed unit type arrangements. Don't they do this for a few deeds in the system?

 

[I Run Long]

I haven’t read all the pages here, but maybe this is a way for DVD to dip their toes into creating moderate resort DVCs which is how most people look at CFW. There is no way that is considered a deluxe DVC. That way there is a separation of deluxe and moderate. Just spit balling and I will admit I do not even pretend to understand the whole trust setup “thingy” - throwing in a technical term there.

 

[BeachClub2014]

But if they are declared into the same association, then it's just a matter of points access. If this has 8m points, then the trust would be able to access 4m points and deeded owners 4m points. They could be used at either property. As mentioned before, this conflates unit ownership with association which are two different things. I own direct at PVB1 and my deed is specified to a certain "unit", but it doesn't mean that that set of a few rooms is all I can stay in at PVB1.

Right, but if DVC doesn't declare the 4M points into the association but declares all 8M into the Trust, then there are no points for DVC 1.0 owners to reserve. My point is that many people are assuming that it's a done deal that at least some of the Tower points will be declared into the existing association, but we've seen nothing in writing to that effect. The statement from Yvonne Chang just said that the current plan is for it to be part of the existing resort, which could mean something different.

 

[Genie+]

Now, do I think that will happen? Probably not, but what's stopping DVC from doing so?

I think there’s not much advantage for them doing that. Sure it would force Poly1 the need to buy into the trust for tower home access, but then also the trust would need to reciprocate and lock their owners out of the long houses (which are great for balancing the high demand DVC has on the studios).

If DVD separated the tower they’d have nothing to book the long houses at 11 months.

 

[Genie+]

Right, but if DVC doesn't declare the 4M points into the association but declares all 8M into the Trust,

I don’t think the could declare all 8m into the trust because the PVB1 is already owned (outside the trust).

 

[BeachClub2014]

I think there’s not much advantage for them doing that. Sure it would force Poly1 the need to buy into the trust for tower home access, but then also the trust would need to reciprocate and lock their owners out of the long houses (which are great for balancing the high demand DVC has on the studios).

If DVD separated the tower they’d have nothing to book the long houses at 11 months.

Unless DVD owns legacy PVB points, which they do, which they then transfer into the Trust, which they could.

 

[Genie+]

Unless DVD owns legacy PVB points, which they do, which they then transfer into the Trust, which they could.

But wouldn’t that just give them that specific amount of points, not the full 8m. The existing owners would need to be deducted.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I don’t think the could declare all 8m into the trust because the PVB1 is already owned (outside the trust).

I based my comment on this quote from @tidefan:
"If this has 8m points, then the trust would be able to access 4m points and deeded owners 4m points. They could be used at either property. As mentioned before, this conflates unit ownership with association which are two different things. I own direct at PVB1 and my deed is specified to a certain "unit", but it doesn't mean that that set of a few rooms is all I can stay in at PVB1."

I was reading his example to mean that "this" refers to the Tower, if I read that incorrectly, then my apologies, but the point remains the same.

 

[BeachClub2014]

But wouldn’t that just give them that specific amount of points, not the full 8m. The existing owners would need to be deducted.

Yes, but it would be some access. I was responding to your comment that there would be no access to the long house studios at 11-months.

 

[tidefan]

Right, but if DVC doesn't declare the 4M points into the association but declares all 8M into the Trust, then there are no points for DVC 1.0 owners to reserve. My point is that many people are assuming that it's a done deal that at least some of the Tower points will be declared into the existing association, but we've seen nothing in writing to that effect. The statement from Yvonne Chang just said that the current plan is for it to be part of the existing resort, which could mean something different.

I think you are confusing ownership with association. The trust would just be ownership. The association would include both the tower and the long houses. Ownership would be split between half of the trust, and then the other half being a whole bunch of deed owners. All of them as owners of the same association would have booking rights. All the trust is is just like one big owner.

 

[dioxide45]

Right, but if DVC doesn't declare the 4M points into the association but declares all 8M into the Trust, then there are no points for DVC 1.0 owners to reserve. My point is that many people are assuming that it's a done deal that at least some of the Tower points will be declared into the existing association, but we've seen nothing in writing to that effect. The statement from Yvonne Chang just said that the current plan is for it to be part of the existing resort, which could mean something different.

I am not sure they can do that. I would think the units would need to be part of an association then conveyed to the trust. We don't really know how the mechanics will work exactly, but I am basing things off of other timeshare systems and DVC isn't blazing any new trails here. These trusts are based on existing laws, regulations and customs.

 

[Genie+]

Yes, but it would be some access. I was responding to your comment that there would be no access to the long house studios at 11-months.

From my understanding, 2 ways DVD could handle putting Poly Tower into the trust:

Declare all 4m points into the trust, and reciprocate home priority trading with PVB1’s 4m points.

Declare all 4m points into the trust, do not reciprocate home priority trading with PVB1’s 4m points but then the trust does not get access to the longhouses.

DVD cannot declare already owned points into the trust. The only way they could declare all 8m Poly points is if they bought every existing owner out. Say the trust took the whole 4m tower and also got their hands on 10% of PVB1. If they decided not to reciprocate with the already existing association, Trust owners would get to book the tower and only up to 10% of PVB1 In the home priority window.

 

[tidefan]

If they decided not to reciprocate with the already existing association, Trust owners would get to book the tower and only up to 10% of PVB1 In the home priority window.

In your case, then, this would mean that Poly2 was a completely separate condo association.

 

[Genie+]

In your case, then, this would mean that Poly2 was a completely separate condo association.

I guess, not sure but the trust cannot declare already owned points.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I think you are confusing ownership with association. The trust would just be ownership. The association would include both the tower and the long houses. Ownership would be split between half of the trust, and then the other half being a whole bunch of deed owners. All of them as owners of the same association would have booking rights. All the trust is is just like one big owner.

No, I'm not confusing these two things. The question is about what being in an "association" really means. If none of the Tower points are declared into the legacy association, how could legacy owners access the Tower?

I am not sure they can do that. I would think the units would need to be part of an association then conveyed to the trust. We don't really know how the mechanics will work exactly, but I am basing things off of other timeshare systems and DVC isn't blazing any new trails here. These trusts are based on existing laws, regulations and customs.

I seem to recall reading that not all units need to be declared into the association. So, if that is true, then how many, if any, do they have to declare?

 

[tidefan]

I guess, not sure but the trust cannot declare already owned points.

Why would it have to declare non-owned points? In the poly example 4 million would be owned by the trust, and 4 million would be owned by current deeded owners.

I like to think of it this way. Suppose that Poly two goes on sale and is part of the original Polynesian Association. There are now all of the sudden 4 million more Polynesian points available to buy. Suppose Elon Musk buys all 4 million points Elon Musk is now your trust.