DVC Change to Renting Rules?

[mprewitt]

I wish Disney would prohibit members from making reservations for anyone other then the DVC member until the 6-month mark.

That would ensure that DVC members get first choice at booking at their home resorts at the 11-mo window and other resorts at the 7-mo window. Then, renters could pick up whatever is left on the table by DVC members at the 6-mo window.

I think DVC members should still be allowed to transfer points within the existing rules, so that wouldn't change.

What would it take to get DVC to institute such a change?

I don't want to prohibit folks from offloading points they can't or won't be able to use. I also don't want to prohibit folks from booking reservations for their friends and family members.

 

[crisi]

I wish Disney would prohibit members from making reservations for anyone other then the DVC member until the 6-month mark.

That would ensure that DVC members get first choice at booking at their home resorts at the 11-mo window and other resorts at the 7-mo window. Then, renters could pick up whatever is left on the table by DVC members at the 6-mo window.

I think DVC members should still be allowed to transfer points within the existing rules, so that wouldn't change.

What would it take to get DVC to institute such a change?

Just playing devil's advocate....what happens when I want to give my daughter a Boardwalk View stay for her Honeymoon. Send my parents down to WDW for an anniversary gift. Book three rooms for a family reunion (I can only stay in one)........?

I think the issue is that DVC can't tell the difference between what I'll call a "legitimate guest of a member" and a "renter."

 

[Tinker74]

Sounds good in theory but how could they monitor it?
For Example..in 2009 we plan to take family with us to DW and provide everone with accomodation using our points...I would hate to book my room at 7 months but have to wait to book the rest of the family.

 

[CarolA]

I gave a friend of mine a weekend stay at BCV. It's a two bedroom villa. I received NOTHING in return. Under the OP's "rule proposal" this would not have been allowed. Sorry, but why should I be punished.

Disney KNOWS who these folks are and if they don't they can just go READ the rent trade board and start working.... They don't seem to be as serious as some of us would like about stopping this!

 

[Chuck S]

Just playing devil's advocate....what happens when I want to give my daughter a Boardwalk View stay for her Honeymoon. Send my parents down to WDW for an anniversary gift. Book three rooms for a family reunion (I can only stay in one)........?

I think the issue is that DVC can't tell the difference between what I'll call a "legitimate guest of a member" and a "renter."

I absolutely agree with you, I often give DVC stays as honeymoons for friends when they get married. And we often reserve more than one room when we travel with friends and family. While I dislike renting, I don't see how they can severely limit it without limiting the option to those of us that don't rent out points.

 

[littlestar]

We've got 34 family members coming to Orlando for New Years for my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary. I would hate to think Disney would have limited me on booking rooms for this occasion.

I book rooms for family a lot. No charge. I've treated for honeymoons, special occasions, etc. I would not like limitations on giving rooms to my family. That's why we bought the membership to enjoy it and treat our family.

 

[starbox]

I absolutely agree with you, I often give DVC stays as honeymoons for friends when they get married. And we often reserve more than one room when we travel with friends and family. While I dislike renting, I don't see how they can severely limit it without limiting the option to those of us that don't rent out points.

We fully intend to use our membership to make reservations for our children and their future families on a regular basis one day. DVC would have been much less attractive if it could only be used in DH and I's names without restrictions. The ability to reserve trips including extended family and friends is really important to us.

 

[CarolMN]

I don't believe the POS (Position Offering Statement - part of the legal documentation we receive when we purchase) supports the idea. It guarantees at least a 1 month home resort booking advantage. It doesn't list any restrictions based on who will be staying in the unit booked.

Renting is clearly allowed in the POS - we can all argue about the legality of "commercial" renting, but at least occasional renting is expressly allowed.

Like it or not, we all have the same chance of reserving popular times and units. It's a first come, first served system.

I know of no legal way for DVC to prevent an owner from reserving a popular time/unit and renting it out on spec. The recent Rent/Trade Forum changes will make it harder for a member who does that to take advantage of the DIS to do it, though.

 

[ZekeKelso]

I know of no legal way for DVC to prevent an owner from reserving a popular time/unit and renting it out on spec.

Is there anything in place that would prevent DVC from requiring a primary renter when making a reservation, and requiring that primary renter to check in? Any changes to the primary renter would more the reservation to the back of the list (i.e. behind anyone on the waitlist).

 

[Dean]

I don't believe the POS (Position Offering Statement - part of the legal documentation we receive when we purchase) supports the idea. It guarantees at least a 1 month home resort booking advantage. It doesn't list any restrictions based on who will be staying in the unit booked.

Renting is clearly allowed in the POS - we can all argue about the legality of "commercial" renting, but at least occasional renting is expressly allowed.

Like it or not, we all have the same chance of reserving popular times and units. It's a first come, first served system.

I know of no legal way for DVC to prevent an owner from reserving a popular time/unit and renting it out on spec. The recent Rent/Trade Forum changes will make it harder for a member who does that to take advantage of the DIS to do it, though.

In general I think this is accurate. What I suppose they could do is make any change at all a cancellation and rebooking. I do not believe they can try to cut out rules that apply subjectively based on the intent to of the member.

 

[CapeCodFam]

We've got 34 family members coming to Orlando for New Years for my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary. I would hate to think Disney would have limited me on booking rooms for this occasion.

I book rooms for family a lot. No charge. I've treated for honeymoons, special occasions, etc. I would not like limitations on giving rooms to my family. That's why we bought the membership to enjoy it and treat our family.

WOW! You are truly generous.

Too bad you can't pick which family you're in.... I know I'd pick yours. However, you might be intentionally sending them far away from Indiana for a reason. Nonetheless, If I'm going to be sent away, WDW would be my life sentence.

 

[JimMIA]

There are actually a number of strategies DVC could use (and probably has) to crack down on members they feel are engaged in "commercial renting." And those strategies would not have any of the negatives on legitimate account usage posters above have outlined.

The way to tell whether someone is using their account in a way DVC doesn't like is not to promulgate some blanket rule which hurts innocent owners doing legitimate things. The way to really identify account abuse is to look at the accounts. Auditing software does that automatically, and will quickly pick out the abuse.

DVC has used that approach. They have determined that 20 ressies a year is a "red flag" they want to look at, and they've sent owners who make a lot of ressies a little letter telling them that, if they are identified as commercial renters, dire consequences could occur. They could do, and probably have done, much more sophisticated analysis and take whatever action they feel appropriate.

 

[Reppstir]

You don't seem to really grasp this whole "time share" thing, I think. I bought points to do whatever I please with them.
Thank you. Another member has made a reservation, in compliance with the rules. You are perfectly free to do the same.
This same argument came up for New Year's Eve week 1999, when some of us made reservations, and then sold them for a very tidy sum of money. You were free to do the same thing.
I honestly don't know how my use of the Vacation Club impacts you in any way. We are completely equal.
I hope your next vacations is magical, by the way.

 

[mprewitt]

You don't seem to really grasp this whole "time share" thing, I think. I bought points to do whatever I please with them.
Thank you. Another member has made a reservation, in compliance with the rules. You are perfectly free to do the same.
This same argument came up for New Year's Eve week 1999, when some of us made reservations, and then sold them for a very tidy sum of money. You were free to do the same thing.
I honestly don't know how my use of the Vacation Club impacts you in any way. We are completely equal.
I hope your next vacations is magical, by the way.

That's the very sort of thing I think negatively impacts other DVC members: when members make reservations for hard-to-get time periods (or hard to get locations/rooms), not with the intent of going themselves, but with the intent of selling the reservation to make cash.

You made off very well, as did the non-DVC renters. However, there were DVC members who paid $$$ to join as well as $$$ for maintenace fees, and yet a choice reservation went to someone who doesn't pay any fees.

If I want to book a GV, or a BWV Std View, or an AKV Club level, I think I should only be competing with other DVC members, and not with renters.

I think you should be able to rent your points out. I just think that members should somehow get priority in booking reservations over folks booking them purely to sell them.

Perhaps if DVC made a new rule that if you call to change the names on the reservation, that would be the same as a cancellation and re-booking of a new vacation.

I'm not sure if that suggestion works. I don't want to prohibit folks from offloading points they can't or won't be able to use. I also don't want to prohibit folks from booking reservations for their friends and family members.

I just want to somehow prohibit members from booking reservations with the intent of selling them rather than using them. That goes beyond the commercial renters. It also goes to those of us who book choice reservations even just one time with the intent of selling it. That, to me, is a one-time commercial rental. You are doing so to make a profit, and you are hurting the chances of other DVC members to utilize their DVC membership.

That's my two cents...

 

[Chuck S]

While Disney could possibly make a rule that reservations for rental be make only at 6 months or less, I don't see how they could enforce it. As it is, in the POS, members are supposed to inform Member Services when they are renting their reservation for cash...do you think everyone is doing that? Unfortunately, in today's society, it would be next to impossible to enforce anything that depends primarily upon members "honesty" and sense of what is proper.

 

[rbl291]

Reppstir. Hopefully Disney DVC reads these boards. I think they would find it is owners that make ressies during peak times and sell them to the highest bidder that is exactly what this thread is about! You are definitely impacting my ability to use DVC by doing that. (Hint, DVC check out Reppstirs acoount activity.....)
I agree with most that we did not buy DVC to make a profit with no intent to use the reservations. But it would be almost impossible to enforce without limiting the ability to rent out points that you will not be able to use in a certain year. Maybe DVC should offer a way to rent them back to DVC for Cash reservation use? Then everyone would feel like they didnt lose out? Maybe a credit against Maint fees for unused points turned back in for cash ressies? Just a thought.

 

[crisi]

Perhaps if DVC made a new rule that if you call to change the names on the reservation, that would be the same as a cancellation and re-booking of a new vacation.

I think they could do this, and that could potentially be functional....but the work around is going to be people ADDING their renters to their reservation, and then when the owner doesn't show up for checkin, he is suddenly "sick."

We also like the flexibility of adding guests (in fact, I need to call and add my guests soon). And if my son manages to break his leg on the skateboard the day before we leave, I'd hope my guests have a lovely time without us without being hasselled by DVC.

The best way is to look for patterns using audit software, as Jim says, and flag owners who seldom have their own name on their reservation and/or switch the name on their reservation often enough to trigger flags. Even then, there are corporations who own timeshares as an employee/client perk - and the difference between that and commercial renting is going to be hard for anyone to spot.

I personally believe Disney's best bet, if they are serious about commercial renting, is to combine audit software with an increase in risk - start billing people for room damage, for smoking in a non-smoking room - and slap it straight on the member's bill without even trying to bill the rooms resident. They might be able to allow room charges for DVC rooms only against the member's account and make it the case that any adult got room charge privledges - that would increase the risk for rentals since you'd now need to be your renters collection agency - however, both those changes would also impact those members who are occational DVC landlords when they can't use their own points - a benefit I wouldn't want to lose.

 

[CarolA]

I think all they have to do is start "lurking" Let's get real... they see "renter" has 1,000 points listed, they register and contact. Renter then says he has XYZ etc..... DVC continues contact until they get info they need and BINGO!!! (DVC should then contact the IRS LOL!)

This is how you hunt for predators on the net and places like the DIS make it easy.... same deal on EBAY. EBAY WILL disclose who you are if contacted by a company. EBAY bends over backwards to make companies happy LOL!

 

[JimMIA]

I think all they have to do is start "lurking" Let's get real... they see "renter" has 1,000 points listed, they register and contact. Renter then says he has XYZ etc..... DVC continues contact until they get info they need and BINGO!!! (DVC should then contact the IRS LOL!)

In the time they wasted doing this, the Disney beancounters could automatically audit every transaction in the entire history of all 100,000+ DVC accounts. As a matter of fact, they could audit all that over the weekend while they're at WDW with their kids.

When you own the books, there is no need to go searching for anything. You already have the information.

 

[mprewitt]

I guess I'll have to start drafting a letter to DVC management, asking them what can be done about this issue.

I wonder if I'll get any sort of response...