DVC Change to Renting Rules?

[crisi]

In the time they wasted doing this, the Disney beancounters could automatically audit every transaction in the entire history of all 100,000+ DVC accounts. As a matter of fact, they could audit all that over the weekend while they're at WDW with their kids.

When you own the books, there is no need to go searching for anything. You already have the information.

I'm not sure however, how the audit software will distinguish between someone whose corporation owns points used as an employee/client perk and someone whose corporation owns points for the purpose of renting them out on the internet. To the software, the situation looks identical - a lot of points being used for reservations in many different names - seldom in the name of the owner, some which occationally repeat. And if the first is OK (and it should be), then the second type of owner is only going to claim he's the first kind if Disney asks.

I think Carol is right, if they want to do this, they need to start matching internet user names that rent a lot of points with DVC contracts. I'm not sure they want to do this though.

 

[Reppstir]

mprewitt,
you are absolutely wrong.

"You made off very well, as did the non-DVC renters. However, there were DVC members who paid $$$ to join as well as $$$ for maintenace fees, and yet a choice reservation went to someone who doesn't pay any fees."

It went to me, a dues paying member, who used it. As I saw fit, as is my perogative as a member.

 

[Reppstir]

Reppstir. Hopefully Disney DVC reads these boards. I think they would find it is owners that make ressies during peak times and sell them to the highest bidder that is exactly what this thread is about! You are definitely impacting my ability to use DVC by doing that. (Hint, DVC check out Reppstirs acoount activity.....)


You couldn't be more mistaken. Me, or anyone else making a reservation does not impact YOUR ability to do anything. It is EXACTLY the way the system is designed to be used.
Get real.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not sure however, how the audit software will distinguish between someone whose corporation owns points used as an employee/client perk...

The software will distinguish between whatever information is contained in the records, depending on what the auditors ask it to look for. Keep in mind that the software is only identifying accounts which need to be looked at more carefully -- it doesn't make value judgements about whether someone is "good" or "bad." The software has no way of judging intent.

The point of using the auditing approach is that it will do a TON of work very quickly and very accurately, with virtually no cost. And...if you set up the search criteria properly, you won't miss anyone.

Once that work is done, someone needs to spend some time really looking at the identified accounts. At some point they might (or might not) want to approach the owner and ask some questions. As you rightly point out, just because someone is engaging in a certain pattern of behavior does not necessarily mean they are doing anything wrong. They may be perfectly legit.

But at least DVC would be spending their time productively, and would be able to target their investigations on the largest potential offenders.

Fishing on the Internet is hit or miss at best. You'd only be finding the obvious offenders, and many of those would be nickel and dime operations.

It is silly to go on an Internet hunting expedition when you have 100% of the data you need right there in your own books! I used to do this for a living and teach this for a living, and I'm telling you how it's done in the real world.

I personally think Disney has not made extensive use of auditing strategies because they don't think renting is an important problem. They've responded in a very limited way to member complaints, but it's no big deal to them. If it becomes a big deal to them, they'll fix it. But they're not going to throw money away chasing a problem that doesn't matter...to them.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I wish Disney would prohibit members from making reservations for anyone other then the DVC member until the 6-month mark.

That would ensure that DVC members get first choice at booking at their home resorts at the 11-mo window and other resorts at the 7-mo window. Then, renters could pick up whatever is left on the table by DVC members at the 6-mo window.

I think DVC members should still be allowed to transfer points within the existing rules, so that wouldn't change.

What would it take to get DVC to institute such a change?

I don't want to prohibit folks from offloading points they can't or won't be able to use. I also don't want to prohibit folks from booking reservations for their friends and family members.

The problem is not the making of reservations... I might want to make reservations for my son and his DW some day... the problem is commercial renting... period.... I think Disney is working this issue out and will at some point have it under control..

However, I don't like that I cannot transfer points twice in one UY... This prevents me from trading points. Which would be sooo great.

 

[GEB@okw]

Why make a big deal out of nothing? Where are all of these comercial renters? Where are these hard to get DVC stays? If someone has a stay for rent that matches the time you need but are unable to confirm it with your points, why not rent the wanted time (from the commercial renter, what ever that is) and rent some of your points to pay for it? Doesn't everyone have equal access to their points and thereful equal access to using them? Why would Disney give a hoot about who is staying in the room? Whoever it is, it's a potential new DVC member or an add on member. Why are so many people so concerned about what others are doing with something they own? Do you care if I drive my car? Do you care if I rent it for $300 a week? How about $1 a week? How about if I give it to my daughter who needs transportation? Do you care? You know what? I do not care if you care!!!! Come on folks, let's make a big deal out of nothing and raise all of our dues to moniter and control it!

 

[mprewitt]

The problem is not the making of reservations... I might want to make reservations for my son and his DW some day... the problem is commercial renting... period.... I think Disney is working this issue out and will at some point have it under control..

However, I don't like that I cannot transfer points twice in one UY... This prevents me from trading points. Which would be sooo great.

I would like Disney to implement new rules to help restrict members from grabbing up choice reservations with the intent of renting them to non-members.

Regarding transfers between members, I think the opposite: Disney should loosen up the rules. I have absolutely no problem with one DVC member selling their points to another DVC member for a fee. They are just selling points, and not selling reservations.

 

[mprewitt]

mprewitt,
you are absolutely wrong.

It went to me, a dues paying member, who used it. As I saw fit, as is my perogative as a member.

Reppstir, the POS does specify that we can rent our points, and that is fine. I'm just pointing out that, in my opinion, the way you are exercising your rights to reserve choice reservations with the intent of selling does, in fact, impact other DVC members.

This same argument came up for New Year's Eve week 1999, when some of us made reservations, and then sold them for a very tidy sum of money. You were free to do the same thing.
I honestly don't know how my use of the Vacation Club impacts you in any way.

As you said above, you don't think this behavior impacts other DVC members. If you were using the reservation for your, your family, or your friends, then I wouldn't have a problem. But you admit you were using the reservation with the intent of selling it to non-DVC members for a "very tidy sum of money".

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. We just see things differently.

 

[Dean]

Reppstir, the POS does specify that we can rent our points, and that is fine. I'm just pointing out that, in my opinion, the way you are exercising your rights to reserve choice reservations with the intent of selling does, in fact, impact other DVC members.

The truth is that every reservation made impacts other members. While one might not like it, this is simply the reality. Even if one were the most egregious of commercial renters, it takes time to make a single reservation. About the most they could do as a single caller would be to reserve one unit ahead of another member. All one has the do is called day-by-day at exactly 11 months out when member service opens. Now if they were an inside person making those reservations before they were available to others, that would be a different issue.

 

[rinkwide]

...Hopefully Disney DVC reads these boards. I think they would find it is owners that make ressies during peak times and sell them to the highest bidder that is exactly what this thread is about! You are definitely impacting my ability to use DVC by doing that. (Hint, DVC check out Reppstirs acoount activity.....)

It's fun to imagine this post being read aloud by a young girl with ponytails and a lisp.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I was gonna say the same thing... It really does suck to not be able to get your ressies (I did get lucky this year calling everyday at the 7 month window) especially at your home resort at 11 months. But there is NO WAY Disney will or really should have the right to not let me send another person... friend, business associate, family... to Disney.

Maybe Disney should buy points from members the way they have offered during certain promotions for new owners?

Just playing devil's advocate....what happens when I want to give my daughter a Boardwalk View stay for her Honeymoon. Send my parents down to WDW for an anniversary gift. Book three rooms for a family reunion (I can only stay in one)........?

I think the issue is that DVC can't tell the difference between what I'll call a "legitimate guest of a member" and a "renter."

 

[yitbos96bb]

Why would you even waste your time writing this... you don't know his name, nor his contract number and what he did is allowed under DVC rules...

Reppstir. Hopefully Disney DVC reads these boards. I think they would find it is owners that make ressies during peak times and sell them to the highest bidder that is exactly what this thread is about! You are definitely impacting my ability to use DVC by doing that. (Hint, DVC check out Reppstirs acoount activity.....)

 

[yitbos96bb]

Yeah because THAT won't cost time and money... Unless they do it for free, I don't want MY dues going up to cover something like this.

Long story short... it sucks, but there is no way around it. If you want your dates, then call Day of when MS opens and keep adding. I got my 11 month ressies fine that way at SSR and then got my 7 month at BCV that way (which are for myself).

I think all they have to do is start "lurking" Let's get real... they see "renter" has 1,000 points listed, they register and contact. Renter then says he has XYZ etc..... DVC continues contact until they get info they need and BINGO!!! (DVC should then contact the IRS LOL!)

This is how you hunt for predators on the net and places like the DIS make it easy.... same deal on EBAY. EBAY WILL disclose who you are if contacted by a company. EBAY bends over backwards to make companies happy LOL!

 

[yitbos96bb]

Are you complaining more about NOT getting a reservation at ANY Resort or because you got screwed out at a specific resort because you didn't call in time? Because even at 7 months, I was easily able to book an SSR room AND a Beach Club room.

I would like Disney to implement new rules to help restrict members from grabbing up choice reservations with the intent of renting them to non-members.

Regarding transfers between members, I think the opposite: Disney should loosen up the rules. I have absolutely no problem with one DVC member selling their points to another DVC member for a fee. They are just selling points, and not selling reservations.

 

[Inkmahm]

In the time they wasted doing this, the Disney beancounters could automatically audit every transaction in the entire history of all 100,000+ DVC accounts. As a matter of fact, they could audit all that over the weekend while they're at WDW with their kids.

When you own the books, there is no need to go searching for anything. You already have the information.

As a beancounter, I'd suggest this isn't an accounting issue.

Perhaps if DVC had better computer systems, they could do these "audits" easily. From what I've seen as a user of the system though, I wonder if there is even a searchable data base! You'd think there has to be...

 

[mprewitt]

Are you complaining more about NOT getting a reservation at ANY Resort or because you got screwed out at a specific resort because you didn't call in time? Because even at 7 months, I was easily able to book an SSR room AND a Beach Club room.

Actually, I own at 4 resorts and always book each at the 11-month window. Thus far, I have been lucky and haven't been personally been affected by the practice of owners making reservations with the intent of selling them.

Folks have chimed in either saying the rules currently don't specifically prohibit this practice, or that it would be difficult (if not impossible) to actually prevent it. That said, I don't think the behavior is beneficial to DVC members.

As DVC grows, I just see folks doing it more and more at the smaller resorts (BCV, VWL) or for GV rooms.

 

[Dean]

I don't think the behavior is beneficial to DVC members.

That's probably true, actually there are a number of other legal options that are also detrimental to other members. These include the ability to reserve day-by-day, to hold multiple reservations and even the wait list itself. I'm sure the single week Marriott owners do not like that multiple week owners can reserve one month ahead of them. I'm also sure that those Blue Green members that are not silver or gold do not appreciate the fact that the silver and gold members can reserve one to two months ahead of then. They will be winners and losers and every situation in with any rule no matter how well intended.

 

[drakethib]

I think all they have to do is start "lurking" Let's get real... they see "renter" has 1,000 points listed, they register and contact. Renter then says he has XYZ etc..... DVC continues contact until they get info they need and BINGO!!! (DVC should then contact the IRS LOL!)

This is how you hunt for predators on the net and places like the DIS make it easy.... same deal on EBAY. EBAY WILL disclose who you are if contacted by a company. EBAY bends over backwards to make companies happy LOL!

I agree with Carol.

My feelings aside on renting, if DVC wanted to slow down renting, (I don't think they ever will be able to stop it) they could very easily find "offenders" if they wanted to.

JMHO

 

[kimberh]

That's probably true, actually there are a number of other legal options that are also detrimental to other members. These include the ability to reserve day-by-day, to hold multiple reservations and even the wait list itself. I'm sure the single week Marriott owners do not like that multiple week owners can reserve one month ahead of them. I'm also sure that those Blue Green members that are not silver or gold do not appreciate the fact that the silver and gold members can reserve one to two months ahead of then. They will be winners and losers and every situation in with any rule no matter how well intended.

Dean,
This is so true. I don't have enough points with Bluegreen to get into their early booking window, so I have to take what I can get. Now, I have two options: 1. I can add more points. 2. I can be happy with where I am and deal with it. I don't set around and woe is me. I do try to get some of their Bonus Days from time to time.
I am still learning the DVC system and I suspect some of the unhappy people are still learning too. With over 100,000 DVC owners, it is not all renters taking the reservations. I am using my fair share for my family. I am sure others are too.

 

[Dean]

Dean,
This is so true. I don't have enough points with Bluegreen to get into their early booking window, so I have to take what I can get. Now, I have two options: 1. I can add more points. 2. I can be happy with where I am and deal with it. I don't set around and woe is me. I do try to get some of their Bonus Days from time to time.
I am still learning the DVC system and I suspect some of the unhappy people are still learning too. With over 100,000 DVC owners, it is not all renters taking the reservations. I am using my fair share for my family. I am sure others are too.

I took the other approach. With Marriott I bought several weeks so I can reserve at the 13-month window. With Bluegreen I bought enough fixed weeks prior to converting so not only would I have the priority window but I have enough points to pay the fees and still have one to two weeks a year as a freebie.

Unfortunately Bluegreen has made in more difficult to to get the preferred benefits by buying resale.