dvc at CBR???? true or not

[skier_pete]

How close is CBR to HS

No that close, however, it is actually extremely close to Epcot. The street that CBR is on backs up to the back of WS. That's why the article I linked talks about being able to put a waterway to link to WS. Google it.

 

[tjkraz]

I hear what you are saying, and generally think along the same lines myself. But if Caribbean Beach DVC will be similar in terms of accommodations / amenities, I would imagine that it would be priced comparably to other existing DVC options, too.

Correct. DVC has no desire to offer a "moderate" resort with rooms that start at 7 points per night for $120....alongside a "deluxe" resort at 15 points and $180.

*IF* this project happens, expect villas which mirror the size and amenities of Grand Floridian, Bay Lake Tower, Poly and others...at comparable prices.

Regardless of how they dress up the actual units, they would still be putting deluxe lipstick (and a deluxe price tag) onto a moderate pig.

The perception is something Disney would have to worry about overcoming. But in reality, it wouldn't take much to upgrade the resort. It already has a decent pool complex. Restaurants could get an upgrade. Disney has already investigated extending the waterways and providing boat service to DHS and Epcot.

Also plans for the DVC building itself call for a 7 story tower which would basically overlook the Epcot World Showcase. (Check out Google Maps to see how close CB is to Epcot.) Premier view.

Today, the Poly. Tomorrow, WL. After that, maybe YC will see some conversion? Maybe more rooms over at Boardwalk after that?

YC is still being debated. Boardwalk probably won't happen since the hotel is only about 250 rooms to begin with.

I think all of these options seem more logical than targeting the moderates. Heck, I even think they dust off the FW DVC plans before they start tackling the moderates.

That's basically the progression: Poly, Wilderness Lodge, YC or BC, Fort Wilderness and THEN Caribbean Beach. With CB we're talking at least 5 years before any construction would begin and even longer it is available for sale.

Disney has every intention of sticking with the DVC business model as long as its viable. There are new families--young families--discovering WDW for the first time every day. In 15 years my own kids may be interested in buying some points.

DVC contracts do have fixed ending dates, at which time Disney will essentially be able to start re-selling resorts like BoardWalk and Beach Club again. But that option doesn't come into play until 2042. In the meantime, they have 28 years of sales needs to fill.

Any / all of these projects could be derailed along the way but for every project placed on the back burner, something else needs to take its place. Re-using existing hotels and/or already developed property is MUCH more economical than building anew.

If DVC exhausts all of its options for taking-over existing hotel rooms, you better believe they will give SERIOUS consideration to repurposing a Moderate before they start clearing fresh land. Refurbishing and upgrading every single common area building at CB is a lot more cost effective than constructing an entirely new property.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Correct. DVC has no desire to offer a "moderate" resort with rooms that start at 7 points per night for $120....alongside a "deluxe" resort at 15 points and $180. *IF* this project happens, expect villas which mirror the size and amenities of Grand Floridian, Bay Lake Tower, Poly and others...at comparable prices. The perception is something Disney would have to worry about overcoming. But in reality, it wouldn't take much to upgrade the resort. It already has a decent pool complex. Restaurants could get an upgrade. Disney has already investigated extending the waterways and providing boat service to DHS and Epcot. Also plans for the DVC building itself call for a 7 story tower which would basically overlook the Epcot World Showcase. (Check out Google Maps to see how close CB is to Epcot.) Premier view. YC is still being debated. Boardwalk probably won't happen since the hotel is only about 250 rooms to begin with. That's basically the progression: Poly, Wilderness Lodge, YC or BC, Fort Wilderness and THEN Caribbean Beach. With CB we're talking at least 5 years before any construction would begin and even longer it is available for sale. Disney has every intention of sticking with the DVC business model as long as its viable. There are new families--young families--discovering WDW for the first time every day. In 15 years my own kids may be interested in buying some points. DVC contracts do have fixed ending dates, at which time Disney will essentially be able to start re-selling resorts like BoardWalk and Beach Club again. But that option doesn't come into play until 2042. In the meantime, they have 28 years of sales needs to fill. Any / all of these projects could be derailed along the way but for every project placed on the back burner, something else needs to take its place. Re-using existing hotels and/or already developed property is MUCH more economical than building anew. If DVC exhausts all of its options for taking-over existing hotel rooms, you better believe they will give SERIOUS consideration to repurposing a Moderate before they start clearing fresh land. Refurbishing and upgrading every single common area building at CB is a lot more cost effective than constructing an entirely new property.

Agree. It also solves the problem of low occupancy in their regular rooms. Less rooms available = higher occupancy stays without actually bringing in more people.

As an added bonus, DVC brings in a big chunk of cash upfront that is applied to the Disney parks bottom line.

Even if you aren't a fan of Jim Hill or podcasts, listen to that one. It is really interesting.

 

[rteetz]

Agree. It also solves the problem of low occupancy in their regular rooms. Less rooms available = higher occupancy stays without actually bringing in more people. As an added bonus, DVC brings in a big chunk of cash upfront that is applied to the Disney parks bottom line. Even if you aren't a fan of Jim Hill or podcasts, listen to that one. It is really interesting.

This all goes back to the parks tho. If we had something new and exciting to look forward too they wouldn't have create ways to make their occupancy rates look better. Heck a lot of DVC members use their DVC but don't go to WDW they go to universal instead with maybe a day at the MK or something. DVC is great but it's getting to the point of when is enough enough.

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

I was thinking the same thing. Lets not fix the actual problem.

We had been considering, off and on, buying DVC since we started going to WDW. Our first family trip was in 1996. I am so glad we didn't and today we aren't even considering it. I know people who have DVC and are now sorry they do. One person is flying down the week before thanskgiving and her and her husband are staying in a 3 bedroom villa because they had that many unused points that had to be used. That is how little they have been using it the past several years. And, they aren't going to any Disney park. They are going to Universal.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone. This is simply my families situation.

This all goes back to the parks tho. If we had something new and exciting to look forward too they wouldn't have create ways to make their occupancy rates look better. Heck a lot of DVC members use their DVC but don't go to WDW they go to universal instead with maybe a day at the MK or something. DVC is great but it's getting to the point of when is enough enough.

 

[rteetz]

I was thinking the same thing. Lets not fix the actual problem. We had been considering, off and on, buying DVC since we started going to WDW. Our first family trip was in 1996. I am so glad we didn't and today we aren't even considering it. I know people who have DVC and are now sorry they do. One person is flying down the week before thanskgiving and her and her husband are staying in a 3 bedroom villa because they had that many unused points that had to be used. That is how little they have been using it the past several years. And, they aren't going to any Disney park. They are going to Universal. Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone. This is simply my families situation.

Well I think DVC when it first started was actually a good deal. Today it's a lot more expensive then it was then.

 

[tjkraz]

We had been considering, off and on, buying DVC since we started going to WDW. Our first family trip was in 1996. I am so glad we didn't and today we aren't even considering it. I know people who have DVC and are now sorry they do. One person is flying down the week before thanskgiving and her and her husband are staying in a 3 bedroom villa because they had that many unused points that had to be used. That is how little they have been using it the past several years.

Lol. Well, I guess that's one person's take on DVC.

Here's mine: We have been owners for over 10 years now. We didn't over-spend on points as some buyers seem apt to do. We make approximately 2 family trips to WDW every 3 years, plus Disneyland roughly every-other-year and odd days at locations like Vero and Hilton Head.

Generally speaking, attractions don't grow stale when you only visit with that frequency. Sure it would be nice if they were investing a little more but we still find new experiences every visit. Next June will be our first ride on 7DMT.

We've long since broken even on the initial purchase of the points. Two of the resorts we own are reselling for about 95% of our original purchase price. The third is selling for more than we paid. If we sold all of the points tomorrow, we're pretty much break even after broker commission...and have enjoyed over a decade of vacations at far less than Disney's hotel rates.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Frankly we love DVC and its the best money we ever spent on vacations. HOWEVER You right if you over buy you have to either be early or more visitors. We have 230 points from 1994, at OKW, which to us is the best DVC resort.

We use the points for a cruise now and then, which is expensive but well worth the money. We also stay at other resorts, (both Disney and non Disney) in the system, so we make good use of the points, never a problem.

AKK

 

[Suger Mag]

I was thinking the same thing. Lets not fix the actual problem.

We had been considering, off and on, buying DVC since we started going to WDW. Our first family trip was in 1996. I am so glad we didn't and today we aren't even considering it. I know people who have DVC and are now sorry they do. One person is flying down the week before thanskgiving and her and her husband are staying in a 3 bedroom villa because they had that many unused points that had to be used. That is how little they have been using it the past several years. And, they aren't going to any Disney park. They are going to Universal.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone. This is simply my families situation.

2 people staying in a 3 bedroom grand villa because they have not been using points for several years? If this is true.... it is extremely poor planning. Renting the points ($10/pt *500 pts = $5000) and pocketing the cash would have been a MUCH smarter way to deal with 'excess' points... but to each their own.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

2 people staying in a 3 bedroom grand villa because they have not been using points for several years? If this is true.... it is extremely poor planning. Renting the points ($10/pt *500 pts = $5000) and pocketing the cash would have been a MUCH smarter way to deal with 'excess' points... but to each their own.

Excellent Point!


AKK

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well I think DVC when it first started was actually a good deal. Today it's a lot more expensive then it was then.

It's 3 or 4 times more than originally priced.

Those that both for $35 a point in 1993 LOVE there DVC...

Those that are paying $155 now...may very well hate it.

Disney has has a long history of wrapping their hands around the neck of the golden goose too tightly at wdw...and then being forced to back off or change how things are done.
This will be the same.

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

They had been banking points to use at the Hawaii resort but haven't been able to get in during a time they can go. They didn't want the hassle or risk of renting out as many points as they needed to get rid of. This was the better and MUCH smarter option for them. As I pointed out, my comments didn't apply to everyone and only these specific situations because I know that DVC works for a lot of people and I truly do believe in 'to each their own' without judgement.

2 people staying in a 3 bedroom grand villa because they have not been using points for several years? If this is true.... it is extremely poor planning. Renting the points ($10/pt *500 pts = $5000) and pocketing the cash would have been a MUCH smarter way to deal with 'excess' points... but to each their own.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

It's 3 or 4 times more than originally priced.

Those that both for $35 a point in 1993 LOVE there DVC...

Those that are paying $155 now...may very well hate it.

Disney has has a long history of wrapping their hands around the neck of the golden goose too tightly at wdw...and then being forced to back off or change how things are done.
This will be the same.

Actually we brought in 93/94 and paid $65.00 a rack price of point. I don't believe it was ever lower then $55.00 a point unless some type of special promotion.

However I agree they do indeed got the neck of the goose right now!


AKK

 

[tjkraz]

Those that both for $35 a point in 1993 LOVE there DVC...

Those that are paying $155 now...may very well hate it.

It was never that low. $50 per point was about the lowest price pre-construction. And it was a much riskier investment back then. Not only was Disney new to the timeshare business, there was no guarantee that it would expand beyond Old Key West (which back then was simply called The Disney Vacation Club Resort.)

Oh, and that $50 price was nearly 25 years ago.

Even at today's prices, the resale market is brisk. Sellers are getting $140-145 per point for Grand Floridian points. Most sellers pay commission, which obviously lowers the net proceeds. But owners who get just 2 or 3 trips out of their DVC points can still come out ahead selling at current prices.

Or the resale market provides a cheaper entry point.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It was never that low. $50 per point was about the lowest price pre-construction. And it was a much riskier investment back then. Not only was Disney new to the timeshare business, there was no guarantee that it would expand beyond Old Key West (which back then was simply called The Disney Vacation Club Resort.)

Oh, and that $50 price was nearly 25 years ago.

Even at today's prices, the resale market is brisk. Sellers are getting $140-145 per point for Grand Floridian points. Most sellers pay commission, which obviously lowers the net proceeds. But owners who get just 2 or 3 trips out of their DVC points can still come out ahead selling at current prices.

Or the resale market provides a cheaper entry point.

My inlaws got Hilton head in 1998 at $42 a point...

So are you sure?

The sticker price was never that low... But with incentives it did dip in the 40s for many years...

So it's 3x more expensive now... For the same rooms.

The first time I ever "looked" at buying the thing (long before I could) was in 2002 at beach club...
It was $77 a point.

When I did buy it years later at Saratoga it was $83 (I think...had to go back and check) a point after incentives

So it was 2x more expensive now...for the same room

It's not a "deal" now...it's an absolute dog of it goes higher.

Disney does and has always made the mistake that people money/purchasing power goes up in direct proportion with their self determine "reasonable inflation" for their costumer products

That is false for the majority of potential customers. Who has a real Increase on disposable earnings 10% per year compounded in perpetuity?

Almost no one...and there ain't that many "rich folk" out there.

 

[OldsDr]

My inlaws got Hilton head in 1998 at $42 a point...

So are you sure?

The sticker price was never that low... But with incentives it did dip in the 40s for many years...

So it's 3x more expensive now... For the same rooms.

So it was 2x more expensive now...for the same room

It's not a "deal" now...it's an absolute dog of it goes higher.

Almost no one...and there ain't that many "rich folk" out there.

Lets also not forget that for the last couple of resorts not only has the price per point gone up, but the size of the point has been reduced. so the actuall price has increasd a lot more than that. At least when breyers went from a half gallon to 1.5 quarts they did not rasie the price for the container at the same time.

I don't think rich folks buy DVC. If I were at my definition of rich I would not want to be burdened with DVC.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lets also not forget that for the last couple of resorts not only has the price per point gone up, but the size of the point has been reduced. so the actuall price has increasd a lot more than that. At least when breyers went from a half gallon to 1.5 quarts they did not rasie the price for the container at the same time.

I don't think rich folks buy DVC. If I were at my definition of rich I would not want to be burdened with DVC.

Very true...

Basically a room at the "grand" is double the point cost as some of the rooms at animal kingdom and boardwalk.

The "rich folk" was a
Little tongue in cheek

 

[skier_pete]

When I did buy it years later at Saratoga it was $83 (I think...had to go back and check) a point after incentives

So it was 2x more expensive now...for the same room

It's not a "deal" now...it's an absolute dog of it goes higher.

Disney does and has always made the mistake that people money/purchasing power goes up in direct proportion with their self determine "reasonable inflation" for their costumer products
That is false for the majority of potential customers. Who has a real Increase on disposable earnings 10% per year compounded in perpetuity?
Almost no one...and there ain't that many "rich folk" out there.

Lets also not forget that for the last couple of resorts not only has the price per point gone up, but the size of the point has been reduced. so the actuall price has increasd a lot more than that. At least when breyers went from a half gallon to 1.5 quarts they did not rasie the price for the container at the same time.

I don't think rich folks buy DVC. If I were at my definition of rich I would not want to be burdened with DVC.

You are both right and wrong. Part of what has Disney selling points at BLT/VGF and eventually Poly at higher prices and premium point count is the is the preimium location. They are going to HAVE to back off on price when they look at something like additional points for the Wilderness Lodge. The location just isn't that primetime.

I do agree that DVC makes little sense at $165 a point. I bought at $74 a point and found the break even point to be about 10 years. At $165 a point, break even is something like 24 years. It's even worse when you think about that I can use my $74 points to stay at those locations. (Albeit at VGF its extremely hard right now, but will probably get easier with the passage of time.)

But, we all say it's a rip-off, yet there's no doubt they'll sell out VGF and I am sure the Poly as well.

 

[Andrew015]

Lets also not forget that for the last couple of resorts not only has the price per point gone up, but the size of the point has been reduced. so the actuall price has increasd a lot more than that. At least when breyers went from a half gallon to 1.5 quarts they did not rasie the price for the container at the same time.

Not sure that I totally agree with this. "Reducing the size of the point" insinuates that you get "less" for your point now than you did in the past. As far as I know, the point requirements for a given room category (studio, 1BR, 2BR, etc.) at a given resort can't and don't change, aside from very minor fluctuations amongst room category from year to year that ultimately add up to the same point total for each resort.

If what you mean is that a 1BR at VGF "costs" significantly more in terms of nightly point requirements than does a 1BR at VWL, then I suppose you are right, although, one must take into account that the VGF is considered the "flagship" resort, and along with it, comes a premium to be paid.

With regard to the purchase price, I just can't see how people are justifying $165/point ANYWHERE, but they are. I really wish I would have bought more VWL @ $50/point (resale) back in 2012...

 

[chalee94]

My inlaws got Hilton head in 1998 at $42 a point...

So are you sure?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2823943

price from disney was about $62 at that point. inlaws either got a killer deal on a resale contract or i suspect they forgot what they paid if they bought direct.

It's not a "deal" now...it's an absolute dog of it goes higher.

i'm not really disagreeing with this.

Disney does and has always made the mistake that people money/purchasing power goes up in direct proportion with their self determine "reasonable inflation" for their costumer products

That is false for the majority of potential customers. Who has a real Increase on disposable earnings 10% per year compounded in perpetuity?

Almost no one...and there ain't that many "rich folk" out there.

apparently, buyers are still coming in droves. while i don't think DVC is a good deal now and would prefer disney executives not overdo it, if DVC can find buyers at $165 per pt, i suppose it would be unamerican of them not to sell DVC to those willing (if math-challenged) buyers...