DVC answers re: transportation/dues--still singing the same off key tune...

[PKS44]

Here is the email I received from DVC "explaining" the dues rise and inequities I have noted on other threads-note they also address the rise in Front desk charges, which I accept, and make the same inconsistent argument about transport which I reject and provide my answer below:

We tried to reach you at your work contact number and were provided this e-mail.
I have been told that you have a couple of questions regarding the increases in Transportation costs for DVC's BoardWalk Villas as compared to the Beach Club Villas and Front Desk costs at the BoardWalk.

Transportation costs at all of our 'Mixed Resorts' (Mixed implies a Walt Disney World and Disney Vacation Club shared resort) are split between Disney Vacation Club and Walt Disney World based on the number of Keys. The Beach Club resort is in total 64% larger than the BoardWalk (Based on number of Keys). The total transportation hours and cost for both these resorts are approximately the same, due to the same number of bus stops, boat stops, and cycle times per trip. Therefore, the Transportation cost per key is lower at Beach Club compared to BoardWalk. Further, DVC is only 19% of the Beach Club, whereas it is 58% of the BoardWalk. The lower transportation dues at Beach Club are due to it being a bigger resort with a larger population across which the costs are spread coupled with DVC's percentage ownership being 19%.

Front Desk costs at the 'Mixed Resorts' (Mixed implies a Walt Disney World and Disney Vacation Club shared resort) are split between Disney Vacation Club and Walt Disney World based on planned occupancy at the resort. The increase in Front Desk costs are due to the addition of Front Desk Advisors to reduce guest check in times, coupled with an increase in planned member occupancy.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Thank you,

Elizabeth Healy
Finance Manager - DVC Condominium & Resorts
Disney Vacation Club

And my email back is as follows:

Ms Healy (or is it Disney policy to call you Elizabeth?),

Thank you for writing back to me. I will quote your email to show you how the policy you outline for the shared transportation costs remains unfair and inconsistent, and that is probably illegal.

"DVC is only 19% of the Beach Club, whereas it is 58% of the BoardWalk."

So "DVC's percentage ownership being 19%." is how DVC ends up being responsible for 19% of the costs of the transportation at the Beach club. That makes sense to me. But, how many "bus stops, boat stops, and cycle times per trip" more had to be added to the Beach club when the BCV was added? Aren't the "bus stops, boat stops, and cycle times per trip" the same as they were before DVC came to own 19%? Similar question for the BWV: the BWV is 38% larger than the BWI, but the number of "bus stops, boat stops, and cycle times per trip" is the same as it would be without the BWV there at all--according to your logic. Therefore, the BWV should not have to pay by percent size but should be able to have the SAME cost as the BWI. And the BCV should have to split it evenly with the rest of the Beach Club. (THAT is not a serious suggestion-I am pointing out the absurdity of the claim that smaller resorts and larger resorts have the same costs).

Furthermore, since you are saying the BCV is 19% of the Beach club- and that "The Beach Club resort is in total 64% larger than the BoardWalk (Based on number of Keys)" you are of course including the Yacht club in your calculations. Well, there are NOT the same number of "bus stops" at the Beach Club and the Boardwalk: THERE are twice as many bus stops at the "Beach Club"compared to the Boardwalk---one stop at the Yacht club, one stop at the Beach Club-- while there is only ONE stop for all the guests of the BWI and BWV. So there are NOT the "same number of bus stops, boat stops, and cycle times per trip." Obviously the transportation costs at the two resorts cannot be the same with DOUBLE the bus stops and 64% more guests at one of the resorts. Size cannot have NO EFFECT on the transportation costs. It is not possible. More guests has to mean MORE Transportation needs and costs.

If you are going to say that BWV is 38% times more financially responsible for the transportation it shares with the Boardwalk Inn because it is 38% larger than the inn, you cannot turn around and say that the Yacht club/Beach CLub/BCV complex has the same transportation costs as a resort it "is in total 64% larger than." (i.e. the BoardWalk)

Either size matters or it does not matter. Which is it? Disney is trying to have it both ways. If the size of a resort has no impact on the transportation costs as you imply by saying "the total transportation hours and cost for both these resorts are approximately the same, due to the same number of bus stops, boat stops, and cycle times per trip" then the same would have to be true where the BWV and BWI are sharing all transportation equally--a SINGLE bus stop, boat dock, cycle time, etc. If this method of calculation is true, Disney is using MY BWV dues to supplement the transport of BWI guests by assigning me 58% of the cost of something you claim is equally shared with non-timesahre guests. That would be an illegal use of timeshare dues. If, as is much more likely and fair, the costs are truly more for BWV guests because there are more of them, the costs for the Yacht club/Beach CLub/BCV complex have to be more than the Boardwalk the same way. Thus, the current sharing method of assigning BWV equal costs for something that is NOT equally sharing means my dues are being used to supplement the Yacht Club and Beach club nontimeshare guests' transportation. (which is precisely what is happening, I believe). That, too, would be illegal use of timeshare dues. I have no idea what the Swan and Dolphin pay for the shared transport, but it would not surprise me if my dues were supplementing them as well since those transportation sharing hotels are also much much larger resorts than the Boardwalk (and have double the number of bus stops, too)

This is the third year I have tried to get Disney to settle on one policy that is both fair and consistent. While previously noting the illegality suggested, I have not ever threatened to involve any lawyers, made any calls to the state attorney general, etc. I have avoided all of that. I would like to continue to avoid all of that. But Disney cannot continue to use two completely different methods to calculate shared transportation costs that result in the inappropriate use of my timeshare dues.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

 

[CapeCodFam]

I understand your argument. For me, I trust that DVC/WDW are good stewards of resources. Regardless of the increase, I trust that the price/point is fair. I'm happy with the value that DVC provides. IMO, the more time they spend defending the increases, the more the cost.

 

[PKS44]

it is not the increase it is the discepancy---and it would cost DVC LESS to get Disney to own up to the fact that they have been soaking BWV for nonBWV transport and change it to reflect the reality that the YC/BC and Swan And Dolphin guests should be paying more of the share of the transport costs...this is a no brainer if DVC were truly looking out for DVC only and not part of the big Disney corporation which can try to cost shift like this...

 

[sssteele]

Teeir explanation sounds reasonable to me. How "attached" are you to BWV? Perhaps you could sell BWV and buy a replacement with more reasonable and acceptable dues/costs. I am not being snide. Just wondering whether you'd enjoy your trips "home" more if you didn't feel like you are being "ripped off."

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Just wait until they open the DVC at the Contemporary Resort and the members start paying for part of the monorail. Yikes!!!!

As a Boardwalk owner I think you for addressing this issue PKS44.

HBC

 

[Disney Doll]

My total dues for 2 contracts at OKW is about $120. A 9% increase is going to bring it up to $130.

$10 is not enough of an increase to make me even care about an increase. It's 33 cents per day.

I'll buy 2 less Starbucks if it becomes that much of a burden.

Let's keep it in perspective people.

 

[DrTomorrow]

ITA with Disney Doll.

One one hand, I'm glad that folks like PKS44 are keeping an eye on such things.

OTOH, with all the good things and wonderful challenges in my life, I could not care less about how WDW & DVC divide the costs of transportation - or anything - at any DVC resort. Must be nice to have the spare time to worry about minutia.

Be well!

 

[Daitcher]

ITA with Disney Doll.

One one hand, I'm glad that folks like PKS44 are keeping an eye on such things.

OTOH, with all the good things and wonderful challenges in my life, I could not care less about how WDW & DVC divide the costs of transportation - or anything - at any DVC resort. Must be nice to have the spare time to worry about minutia.

Be well!

Couldn't agree more Doctor. I'd rather spend my time coming up with ways to make more money than fight DVC on the use of maintenance fees. These minute increases are nothing in the big scheme of things. I'll let the OP fight it out if that is what they want to do. I'll just continue to enjoy my trips rather than look for every negative aspect.

p.s. I trust that our dues are computed fairly and applied appropriately.


DAVE

 

[linco711]

To all you trusting soles out there.............Disney is a big corporation that will rip us all off if we let them. I think it's great that someone out there is looking out for our best interest. Thank you! Thank you!

 

[sssteele]

If you feel that you are being "ripped off", sell! That is the way the free market works. It is the same with any product or service - if more people want to sell than buy, the price drops, or the product improves. I bought a truck that recently was a CU highly rated vehicle. Due to some recalls and other problems, they are now rated "at the bottom" in reliability. Will that affect their sales? It should. Would I buy that vehicle now? Probably not, unless its ratings improve. If you and other dissatisfied customers continue to rate negatively, and "unload" your points, resale prices will fall, and the buyers market will benefit. (DVC lowers price or improves product) This logic is provide by a social studies teacher with only a BA, so please consult a more knowledgeable economist before acting upon my advice !!! You can probably buy back your points at a fraction of the original price. Please don't interpret this as to mean that I lack empthy (see my truck reference), but this is the way it works.

 

[PKS44]

Two years ago- DISNEY discovered they had made an error and corrected it --they had forgotten to assign any costs from the boats to the new BCV. (a $400,000 error) (By the way they acknowledged my little contribution in discovering this with a lovely welcoming gift on my next DVC stay)

One year ago- DISNEY admitted that their system for assigning large resorts an equal share of the cost of transport that they share with smaller resorts and then using percentages to split the costs at the mixed resorts was indeed unfair and inconsistent. While it is a small amount of money, they said they would fix it. They have not.

Those who want to just let this slide because it is a relatively small amount of money don't need to worry about it. If it is such a small amount of money difference, why don't they just fix it? Those who believe in the law and principle as I do, don't find the few minutes it takes to address this situation too terribly distracting. I would say anybody who traffics on these boards at all is "wasting" time they could be devoting to making more money or whatever. I work hard for my money and I don't feel any special need to subsidize the transport needs of guests of the Yacht Club, or the Swan and Dolphin.

as far as trusting Disney or anyone with my money? They messed up once to the tune of almost half a million dollars the next year they made a promise that they did not keep. If that is a recipe for trust, it is a recipe I would not apply anywhere in my life....YMMV.

 

[linco711]

Everytime I state my opinion on these boards, I get attacked. Actually I've noticed others being attacked for their opinions to. Why are you all so very sensitive and overly protective of Disney? No place is perfect, and isn't expected to be ............but if I want to say something about Disney that is not all sweetness and light, I should be able to without being attacked...........

 

[Sammie]

Everytime I state my opinion on these boards, I get attacked. Actually I've noticed others being attacked for their opinions to. Why are you all so very sensitive and overly protective of Disney? No place is perfect, and isn't expected to be ............but if I want to say something about Disney that is not all sweetness and light, I should be able to without being attacked...........

As to being sensitive I have read all the comments in this discussion and I do not see anyone attacking you or your opinion. Your comments were not even quoted by anyone responding. Just as you should be able to voice your opinions others have the right to disagree.

As to being attacked about one's opinions I don't think it is so much of an attack as some feel if anyone disagrees with them it warrants calling it an attack.

The moderators do an excellent job of keeping the actual attacks under control, so I personally don't see much of that happening.

 

[kathleena]

To the OP - I understand what you are saying and agree with you that it doesn't seem right.

It's always important to fight for what you believe is right. Thanks for continuing to bring this up. I believe in what you are doing.

 

[DebbieB]

I don't see anything wrong with a member questioning DVC on the calculation of dues. The only answer to not liking something isn't to sell. If he wishes to put time and effort into it, more power to him. He's not asking anyone else to get involved. I hate it when someone complains about something and the next person responds with "then just sell" or "just don't go". Where would we be if everyone just walked away from things they disagreed with and didn't try to solve the problem?

 

[crisi]

I understand your argument. For me, I trust that DVC/WDW are good stewards of resources. Regardless of the increase, I trust that the price/point is fair. I'm happy with the value that DVC provides. IMO, the more time they spend defending the increases, the more the cost.

True, but developing a more equitible formula costs almost nothing, whereas defending themselves against a class action lawsuit will cost them an arm and a leg. I'd rather see this resolved by developing a more equitable formula than having someone decide that they do need to involve the lawyers. PKS44 does have a point, the current situation is not equitable and I doubt it would pass audit if it were caught.

 

[Cinderella]

Quoted by a precious poster -

"My total dues for 2 contracts at OKW is about $120. A 9% increase is going to bring it up to $130.

$10 is not enough of an increase to make me even care about an increase. It's 33 cents per day.

I'll buy 2 less Starbucks if it becomes that much of a burden.

Let's keep it in perspective people."

Sorry but I don't understand how you have only $120 dues with two contracts - that would have to be two 15 point contracts right?
__________________

 

[DebbieB]

Quoted by a precious poster -

"My total dues for 2 contracts at OKW is about $120. A 9% increase is going to bring it up to $130.

$10 is not enough of an increase to make me even care about an increase. It's 33 cents per day.

I'll buy 2 less Starbucks if it becomes that much of a burden.

Let's keep it in perspective people."

Sorry but I don't understand how you have only $120 dues with two contracts - that would have to be two 15 point contracts right?
__________________

I think that's their monthly deduction.

 

[tjkraz]

PKS44:

Good luck in your fight. One thing you might want to ask along the way is whether there are any planned changes to bus service next year. These are '06 budgets, so they are trying to predict a year ahead. Maybe there are pending plans to separate the BWI/BWV, Dolphin and Swan routes next year. It's a long shot, but you never know...

I also wanted to make you aware of what I think was an inaccuracy in one of your prior posts. In the budget thread you had made a statement about BCV transportation costing one-third the amount as BWV. I'm wondering if you might have been comparing the wrong lines.

They way I read it:

BCV$: 507,000
BCV/Pt: .1678

BWV$: 1,260,000
BWV/Pt: .2579

Based upon the number of units, there appears to be an unexplainable variance of about $300k.

I wonder if DVC is even going to be able to adequately address this. They could be basing budgets on numbers received from Disney Tranport, or some other entity.

One other thought I just had. I'm wondering if they really are going to argue that transportation is roughly the same between the two resorts, regardless of the larger number of rooms at BC/YC. Specifically, I could see Disney contending they average one bus every 15 minutes throughout the day for BOTH BWV/BWI and BC/YC, with added service at park opening and closing times. If true, that would actually mean that the service is almost identical in cost, but that the BWV/BWI busses would have fewer guests on average since they have fewer rooms.

The main flaw with this approach is that it doesn't account for the sharing of busses with the Dolphin and Swan.

Have fun. Keep us posted.

 

[manning]

What percent did the 2006 Beach Club room rates increase??