DVC and Free Dining

[luckyman_apd]

Yeah, couple that with the fact that an 18% tip is mandatory with TiW. It is really only a 2% discount in some ways.

I usually tip 20% but it's pretty annoying to have my non-drinking party of 4 automatically saddled with 18%. What if my salad never came? What if I waited 20 minutes for a scoop of ice cream? What if my soda sat empty 3/4 of the meal? 18%... No, screw your bad service. And I shouldn't have to wait even longer to argue that to a manager.

I'm sorry....did you really just say that it's only a 2% discount? Do you not leave tips ever? I get your point about the forced gratuity if you have bad service....but typically in disney, you aren't supposed to get bad service and if you do, I know they want to know about it. You CAN NOT marginalize the tip from the discount because everyone pays tip...or is supposed to. As you stated, you USUALLY tip 20%....so that's an extra 2% discount off the tip you are getting. If you don't want to buy the TiW because of forced gratuity that's fine (and at $150 it's not worth it for us anymore) but don't marginalize it from the math of the discount. Even free dining doesn't cover gratuity.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I'm sorry....did you really just say that it's only a 2% discount? Do you not leave tips ever? I get your point about the forced gratuity if you have bad service....but typically in disney, you aren't supposed to get bad service and if you do, I know they want to know about it. You CAN NOT marginalize the tip from the discount because everyone pays tip...or is supposed to. As you stated, you USUALLY tip 20%....so that's an extra 2% discount off the tip you are getting. If you don't want to buy the TiW because of forced gratuity that's fine (and at $150 it's not worth it for us anymore) but don't marginalize it from the math of the discount. Even free dining doesn't cover gratuity.

Exactly.

For my husband and I, I had to run the numbers. We don't drink and we only have one table service a day. But because with this trip we can stretch it through two trips, it is worth it.

When we discussed the forced tip, my husband, the money guy, said, "that's what we tip anyway." And yes, we have had a couple of bad servers at Disney. Both times the manager made up for it.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Not only do you pay full price for your room, you also are required to buy at least a 2 day minimum ticket for everyone listed on the reservation.

On the other hand, I was thrilled to see my trips are excluded from the free dining dates. I arrive August 3rd for a week and no free dining and again October 15th. It's made it easier to get dining reservations. I don't miss that craziness of getting a room reservation when a promotion comes out.

Yes, the "free dining" promotions really make table dining not worth it. Hard to get a reservation you want, and when you do, it's far more crowded. We are starting to change our dining habits to do our table service meals (the few we do anymore) in the the lunch time....Temps are warmer, crowds for rides are higher, and take a break then and use the DVC discount. lots more discounts for lunch than for dinner.

 

[moericus]

I'm sorry....did you really just say that it's only a 2% discount? Do you not leave tips ever? I get your point about the forced gratuity if you have bad service....but typically in disney, you aren't supposed to get bad service and if you do, I know they want to know about it. You CAN NOT marginalize the tip from the discount because everyone pays tip...or is supposed to. As you stated, you USUALLY tip 20%....so that's an extra 2% discount off the tip you are getting. If you don't want to buy the TiW because of forced gratuity that's fine (and at $150 it's not worth it for us anymore) but don't marginalize it from the math of the discount. Even free dining doesn't cover gratuity.

Yes, I usually tip over 18% as I said and you even noted. So thanks for being argumentative for no reason.

My point is if you deduct 20% but immediately add 18%, then it's not really a 20% discount is it? You can argue semantics and society norms all you want. But the fact is a tip is optional until you purchase TiW.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Yes, I usually tip over 18% as I said and you even noted. So thanks for being argumentative for no reason.

My point is if you deduct 20% but immediately add 18%, then it's not really a 20% discount is it? You can argue semantics and society norms all you want. But the fact is a tip is optional until you purchase TiW.

It's not argumentative for no reason. Think about it. If you get 0 discount....you have to add gratuity. If you get a 20% discount .....AND THEN ADD GRATUITY.....the gratuity is the same either way. You still got your 20% discount. Lets say the meal is $100. You get $20 off. So not that's $80. Then add $18, so you pay $98. Now let's go the no discount math shall we. $100 meal with no discount.....$100. Then add your 20% tip.....that's $120 vs $98. How's that only 2% discount as you say?

And I disagree. If you think a tip is optional, than #1 you a (insert word I can't use on a public forum), and #2 have no understanding that servers pay rate is far lower as they are EXPECTED to make tips. Tipping is not optional in our society. It isn't. And anyone that doesn't tip is really a cheap dirtbag. Regardless of what you stated you pay, saying it's optional is an insult to any waiter or waitress. The amount is negotiable, but not optional.

 

[DebbieB]

Yes, I usually tip over 18% as I said and you even noted. So thanks for being argumentative for no reason.

My point is if you deduct 20% but immediately add 18%, then it's not really a 20% discount is it? You can argue semantics and society norms all you want. But the fact is a tip is optional until you purchase TiW.

Actually the 18% tip is calculated before the discount. That's one of the reasons they do it, people under tip when they have a discount.

 

[moericus]

If you get 0 discount....you have to add gratuity.

No, I don't have to add anything. That's not how it works. I've personally always given a tip in a restaurant, but I certainly don't like being forced to do it. When tips change from being expected to being mandatory then why would a server try hard at all? Good waiters should be rewarded. Instead you'd just throw them in with the crappy ones. You like the service at McDonald's? I hope you're ready for it everywhere.

You get $20 off. So not that's $80. Then add $18, so you pay $96. Actually a 4% discount the way you are thinking

No, it's not 4%. This is just bad arithmetic. 80+18 = 98, not 96. So you're argument would be is $120 better than 98. And that's also a foolish argument because you're negating the $150 surcharge and changing the tip percentage.

And I'm well aware of how servers make money thank you. I worked as a waiter once upon a time. And if you think other waiters should be happy earning as much as some lazy jerk co-worker then you are a... (insert word I can't use on a public forum)

Actually the 18% tip is calculated before the discount. That's one of the reasons they do it, people under tip when they have a discount.

Yes, I think that's the reason they do it too. But that doesn't change the argument. I never claimed the gratuity was after the discount.

 

[luckyman_apd]

I'm not trying to start an argument over semantics....(total facepalm on the 80 + 18 by the way.....been a long day), I'm just saying....you do tip......so the 18% added on is less than the 20% you said you typically leave. Point is, you are still getting your 20% discount. If you WERE a person that doesn't tip, you can reasonably argue that it's only a 2% discount....but really, I tip, you tip (as you stated) and it's a 20% discount.

My real issue with TiW is that it's now up to $150 and many of the places where it was really worth using have been removed from the program or have blackout periods. It's still a deal for some, but not for me. Also the DVC/AP discount is at some of the place we would use TiW.

I wonder how many OKW owners eat at Olivia's and don't even know to use the 10% off?

 

[Supplanter]

... You CAN NOT marginalize the tip from the discount because everyone pays tip...or is supposed to. ...

Tips are an American thing, that's why they force them. Particularly Asian countries (but many european ones as well) find it offensive to push what should be business costs on to the customer. Tipping is really stupid and should be done away with. If that's the cost to run the business, add it to menu price. Otherwise, it's optional and should be a reward for exceptional service not the norm.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Tips are an American thing, that's why they force them. Particularly Asian countries (but many european ones as well) find it offensive to push what should be business costs on to the customer. Tipping is really stupid and should be done away with. If that's the cost to run the business, add it to menu price. Otherwise, it's optional and should be a reward for exceptional service not the norm.

I hear you, but as you say, it's an american thing....and Disneyworld is in the USA last time I checked. I'm sure they don't do it in Disney Tokyo or Disney Paris....but also, if going to those two...I'm certainly not going to expect them to revolve around american standards nor should I. I wouldn't travel to a country/culture and then get offended by said cultures practice. That's a very egocentric thing to do.

I've never been a fan of the forced gratuity model, but I've been a waiter myself. So until the business model changes I can't exactly take it out on the wait staff.