Duplicate ADR's for Same Time??

[Hopefully]

I totally agree with Melomouse's 1st post. I think making 2 ADR's just to increase last minute options is totally self centered, and wrong. It is unfair to the other families trying to plan who are now unable to get an ADR at either of these restaurants.

 

[Tiger926]

Very good discussion. Excellent points as usual, Bicker! Here are my thoughts:

1. Just because people promise to cancel ADRs, this may not be that much of a help either as several posters didn't specify when they were going to cancel. So, if they cancelled a couple of hours before, they are still tying up an ADR for someone else to use. Sorry, it's the English teacher in me coming out, but not many posters who have 2 ADRs said when they were going to cancel - their 'soon' may not be my 'soon', especially if their trips are days or weeks away! It baffles my mind how unplanners think having multiple ADRs are going to help them - if they can't decide at 180 days out where to eat, what makes them think they are going to be able to decide at 7 or 3 days out? Make 1 ADR and that's it, please!!!

2. I just called yesterday to make a couple of changes to our ADRs for July (that have been booked since 180 days), and before I even said to cancel ones that ended up being on duplicate nights (I switched a few restaurants), the CM was already in the process of cancelling. I guess it depends on what CM you get, but the efficient ones are recognizing that people have multiple ADRs and are calling people on it. The computer system itself though is another story as I was able to make my switches first, and then they were cancelled. The system is set up for this, but perhaps they could red flag multiple ADRs if possible.

3. Growing up in a restaurant family for my entire 35 years, I can tell you that people don't take reservations seriously. They think it's no big deal for restaurants or other patrons to make multiple reservations, not show up, or show up with 5 extra people! I see this at Disney all of the time. People are selfish, plain and simple. If people were altruistic in nature, and thought about how difficult this is for both the restaurant, and other patrons, it wouldn't be so bad. In my experience though, I've learned that most people think of themselves first, especially when dining out in public.

In some cases, multiple ADRs are legitimate - parents splitting up with kids or other members of the party wanting to eat at different restaurants, but, from what we read on the DIS, most of them are to accommodate the unplanners - people who can't decide what park they want to eat in until they get there. I have family and friends who are like this - they think the whole world revolves around them, and so they feel that all restaurants, stores, vacation destinations, etc. should be able to accommodate them at all times! These same people get angry when they want to bring 7 people out to dinner in the next 5 mins. and the restaurant can't accommodate, or they want to take a cruise in 3 days, but there aren't any flights left. It makes my head hurt as I think of everyone else who is sharing Disney with me as being just as important as my family - especially when making dining reservations.

Basically, until Disney implements a credit card policy, or some other flagging/cancellation system, then people are going to continue to make multiple ADRs or use the Dining Plan incorrectly, because as we've also seen many times on the DIS, some people are very insular and selfish in regards to how they conduct themselves in the world. For us, we plan our days around our ADRs, and that's the way it needs to be as we are vying for the same dining spots as 40,000 other people on a daily basis. It's too bad some people feel they don't have to follow the same logical planning as the rest of us!

Happy eating to all, Tiger

 

[Raevyn_Wolfe]

Or just accept the loss. I suspect that is the approach most patrons use, in cases where there is a non-refundable deposit for something they have to cancel out of at the last minute.

Why? The airlines don't give you a refund on non-refundable tickets if you cancel your flight on short notice. And those airfares are typically higher than what folks would pay at a restaurant for a meal, so passengers are out even more money than they would be out at the restaurant, yet there are still millions of passengers each year choosing non-refundable airline tickets.

Policy should be policy no matter what. In a situation where customers basically expect the world, exceptions severely undercut the effectiveness of the policy, thereby hurting all the other guests. If a CM could rely on being backed-up by management for implementing a fair and equitable policy, then there would be far less confusion here on the DIS.

you know, I had written a long, lengthy response to this, but then decided to delete it. I love debate, won competitions in school, so what I wrote was nothing bad or attacking, I just decided it wasn't worth my energy.

My opinion still stands at having more than one, or heck purposely making even just one ADR that you have no real intention of using is just wrong.
But having a strict no show policy for every sit down restaurant in Disney world is simply ridiculous. It's a meal for heaven's sake.

 

[lynninpa]

Disney is "cracking down" on people making 2 ADRs at the same time...at least that is what several people have posted. The most recent post I read said that a CM had actually cancelled both ADRs.

 

[bicker]

I think a lot of people would object to the characterization that it's [just] a meal. For many people, a Disney vacation may be a trip of a lifetime. For others, specific meals make the whole vacation, and it wouldn't be fair to tell them that it's [just] a vacation.

However, that's not really the point: I agree, it's [just] a meal. The principle isn't food. The principle is fairness and integrity. Those aren't throwaway ideals. Those are basic foundations for civilization.

 

[vatmark]

I don't think having a strict no show policy solves very much in my opinion. By the time that ADR opens up because the person was a no show...someone else had to choose something different that wasn't their first choice because someone else had booked 2 ADRs for the same day and time. I know that if I called for an ADR and couldn't get it I would not be showing up at the place and wasting my time hoping for an opening. I would have been forced to choose some where else that was not my first choice.

There are sometimes very valid reasons why people don't show up such as sickness etc. It would not be fair to these people if they are a no show and have to pay some fee.

I think the whole point is that double bookings should not be allowed. Now if you have 5 people on your ressie and you are making 2 ADRs, one for 3 people at one place and one for 2 people at another then obviously that is not really a double booking.

What it all comes down to is choose one and live with your decision!

Annie

 

[bicker]

It would not be fair to these people if they are a no show and have to pay some fee.

I disagree. If a seller tells you that there is a fee for not showing up, then it is "fair" to apply that fee, whether that seller is a restaurant or an airline. The only way it would be unfair is if they didn't tell you they would charge you for a no show, and then they did so.

 

[vatmark]

You have a good point there Bicker. I guess for me it's not about people who are a no show at an ADR because of a valid reason(that I can understand) but about those who intentionaly make 2 ADRs for the same time and day only intending to use one, therefore putting someone else out.

Annie

 

[sleepydog25]

First, let me say I'm glad to see such a debate on here. . .and that it hasn't devolved into a shouting match. I love seeing words like altruistic and conversations centering on social mores (which is really what this thread is about). Healthy debate is also the cornerstone of a healthy democracy (with a nod to bicker ).

That being said, I see nothing wrong instituting a cancellation fee policy. As bicker and others have said, if everyone knows the rules then it's not unfair. It may not be convenient to some or it may seem like overkill to others, but it wouldn't be unfair. I wouldn't make it 50%; perhaps something more along the lines of $10-$25 depending on the restaurant would be more palatable while still carrying a consequence.

As for a cancellation fee policy not being fair? In the larger scheme of things life itself isn't fair. Life simply is, and it becomes what we make of it and what responsibilities we accept. I've always schooled my daughters and my students that life is a series of consequences predicated on the choices we've made. The hardest part is accepting those consequences as part and parcel of who we are and what we decide to do in any given situation. Sure, there are things that happen beyond our control, but that's true to everyone.

So, if Disney implements a cancellation fee policy (and frankly I don't think they will anytime soon other than for a few of their top venues like CRT), we will either buy into the concept and its consequences arising from our own choices, or we stomp our feet and claim it isn't fair. I prefer to be in the former category.

 

[bicker]

You have a good point there Bicker. I guess for me it's not about people who are a no show at an ADR because of a valid reason(that I can understand) but about those who intentionaly make 2 ADRs for the same time and day only intending to use one, therefore putting someone else out.

Annie

What is really a shame in all this is how the acts of a small portion of guests doing the latter makes it increasingly difficult to show flexibility towards guests doing the former.

 

[shellybaxter]

I don't have a problem with whether a cancelation fee would be "fair". I fully understand that life is not fair. My question is more practicle and comes from a business standpoint. Is a cancelation fee policy reasonable? I believe it is not. WDW is a complex of themeparks. The function of the restuarant is to keep themepark goers inside the gates spending money and having fun so they will come back again to spend money. The purpose of the restuarants is not to serve as high end establishments of dining (with the exception of V&A and possibly a fee others - Cali Grill?). Therefore when making policy one must take into account the nature of a themepark system with internal transportation.

First, guests are not in complete control of their own time schedule. Disney controls they quite often. Guests do not know exactly when a bus will arrive, or if the monorail is going to have problems and be stuck on the track for a while, or even when Disney will choose to schedule the last Beauty and the Beast show of the day. Second, a large percentage of the guests using the restuarants have small children. Small children have agendas and time schedules all of their own. Lastly, some guests are so overwhelmed by the enormity of WDW that they "get lost" in it and don't do exactly as they've planned. The whole idea is that the expirience is supposed to be fun, not stressful.

For these reasons I believe that a cancellation fee, to be imposed on every sit down restuarant ADR is unreasonable. If they were to start such a policy I would not want to be the guest services representative that dealt with all of the angry people who were held up by Disney transporation or couldn't attended do to sick or tired children.

I like ADRs, make them at the 180 day mark, but I would rather they go to all walk ups then start taking a cancellation fee.

 

[melomouse]

Seems to me, then, that the solution is for the CM's at Dining Reservations to cross reference any current ADR's and just NOT ALLOW ANY double bookings at the same time. One room - one ADR - that's it...

This would also inconvenience some - such as the larger party who wants to split up - no reason why the other party can't make their OWN ADR's.
Of course, once this would be implemented, some will be looking for ways around that, too...

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Hate to tell you this but Disney will cancel your extra ressies on you when you arrive in the park if it is a busy time.This happened to me around the holidays. I made dinner ressies at our favorite restaurant and then several hours later had a ressie for another restaurant for dessert. I did this on two occasions because I thought it would be fun. It wasn't! Disney picked up the two and assumed they were double bookings(they were not) and cancelled our earlier made ressies without any warning to us. Our ressies were fine and intact before we left for Disney. I was shocked that our ressies were cancelled because I really wanted my dinner ressies, the other two were for dessert and I didn't want to have dinner there. Disney has a policy that they will cancell your earlier made ressie and leave the last one made. I even had them under two telephone numbers so beware!!!!!!! No more dessert ressies for me!

The RULE is that Disney will cancel your earlier ressie if two ressies are made in the same time period( dinner, lunch, breakfast)

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

There is mutiple adr thread with people reporting disney cancelling adrs on them without warning. You might want to do a quick search for this.

 

[melomouse]

I suspect that the days of dinner at one restaurant and dessert at another will vanish now with DDP and especially with FDP in place, due to supply and demand. It has already happened, according to Boardwalk Tigger's experience during "busy season".

Is it only fair to that those planning to eat a full meal should get priority over dessert-only eaters??

I have read in the past on these boards it was a popular idea to just go for a drink or dessert to get prime viewing spots for shows. Those days are gone. Then people started suggesting dessert or drinks or appetizers at slower times at busy restaurants - mid-day, for example. While I think it's a nice idea, I can't see this happening anymore.

 

[sleepydog25]

First, guests are not in complete control of their own time schedule

Though true, I have to qualify this assumption. Often we put ourselves into position to not be in complete control over our schedule. Yes, the show times might not be a perfect fit; yes, the buses might run late; yes, our kids might have meltdowns. But, those are contingencies upon which I plan and upon which I do not rely upon Disney's good graces nor timing. If I choose to squeeze in the last show of Festival of the Lion King and rely upon Disney transportation to get me to Artist Point in time for my ADR, then the bulk of the responsibility for not making that ADR is mine not Disney's. Sure, my daughter might have a meltdown or take sick unexpectedly, but I don't count on Disney to accomodate either of those issues--they're my problems. Self-determination is a slowly dying concept, and I just prefer to not help it along when I can.

Is a cancelation fee policy reasonable? I believe it is not.

And I don't disagree on this point, really, at least in terms of an over-arching policy. However, I do believe it could be reasonable and prudent at many of the TS eateries where it currently is not. Enough people now already think it's reasonable for CRT, Hoop De Doo, PSB, Fantasmic package, et. al., as they are still extremely popular meals despite requiring a deposit.

As for having fun, I heartily believe it would be less stressful knowing there was a policy in place to protect the integrity of the ADR system and knowing everyone was playing by the same rules than it is wondering if I have to make an ADR at exactly 180 days for Le Cellier or if I'm going to have a fair chance to get a PSB ressie. I'd love to put a bit more spontaneity back into the Disney experience, but the truth of the matter is they've become too big and too iconic. Still, I'm open to ways of improving the Disney magic.

 

[melomouse]

(Help - I can't stop posting on this thread!!!!)


Excellent points, Sleepydog..

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

My dessert ressie was at a resort restaurant and very late, around 930. There wasn't anything to see and the restaurant was very quiet. The upsetting thing was that they cancelled my dinner reservation which was hours earlier! Apparently they cancel which ever ressie you made first, in that time slot with the presumption that the last made ressie is the one you want. I discovered it just before we went to dinner and Disney protected my other reservations. It was a nightmare though. Disney should warn people that you can't have more than one reservation in the same time category (lunch, dinner etc.) We have done this in the past and never had a problem.
I think the dining plan had just made the restaurants more congested

 

[mommykds]

Hate to tell you this but Disney will cancel your extra ressies on you when you arrive in the park if it is a busy time.This happened to me around the holidays. I made dinner ressies at our favorite restaurant and then several hours later had a ressie for another restaurant for dessert. I did this on two occasions because I thought it would be fun. It wasn't! Disney picked up the two and assumed they were double bookings(they were not) and cancelled our earlier made ressies without any warning to us. Our ressies were fine and intact before we left for Disney. I was shocked that our ressies were cancelled because I really wanted my dinner ressies, the other two were for dessert and I didn't want to have dinner there. Disney has a policy that they will cancell your earlier made ressie and leave the last one made. I even had them under two telephone numbers so beware!!!!!!! No more dessert ressies for me!

The RULE is that Disney will cancel your earlier ressie if two ressies are made in the same time period( dinner, lunch, breakfast)

Wow that stinks..how did they know both adr's were for you? I have adr's for us 5 for dinner & so does my BIL who will be down there with us. Same last name, same first initial for both my DH & BIL, both party of 5 with roughly same age kids but we aren't eating at the same place every night together...I be so upset of they think we are all the same party & cancel our adr's. How does Disney fool proof this? We aren't staying at the same resort but still makes me nervous....

 

[NeverlandClub23]

I agree that there should be a "no show" fee in place, regardless the reason. I am one of those people that our main reason for going to Disney is the meals. If there were exceptions for the fee policy, wouldn't a lot more people be calling and saying "Oh my child is sick. We can't make it." just so they could save themselves from having to pay the fee (whether they had a sick child or not) and still be able to go to wherever they wanted to eat?

I also agree that making it to your ADR is your responsibility. Yes, it is a pain leaving a park an hour or more earlier to make sure you have enough time to catch the bus/boat/monorail and make it to your ADR. But if that's what I have to do to make it there why should anyone expect to not pay a fee when other people can make it there on time? You decided to spend that extra time in the park or watching a show or waiting in line for a ride. Buses do take a lot of time and monorails do stop for awhile for the next one to leave the station it's at.

On our last day at WDW last trip we had to leave DTD to get back to the airport. We waited an hour for a bus back to our resort to get our car. We had spent too much time at DTD and were really trying to push it, but if we had missed our flight it wasn't Disney's fault. It was ours for not having the common sense that things happen and you can't always rely on the fact that the buses will only take 10-20 minutes to get you and take you to your resort.

There will always be ways to get around the system even if Disney didn't allow people to make double ADR's but I disagree with the inconsiderateness of the person making multiple ADR's. Everyone wants to have a magical trip and everyone's paying a lot of money for their trip, so it's not considerate to only think of your family and your trip when booking multiple ADR's.

Of course, just my opinion and people will continue to do what they want to do until Disney puts a stop to it (hopefully but not sure of how likely).