Duggar interview

[pryncess527]

People who live in glass houses, should not thrown stones. It seems to me, the Duggar's have not only set up a very glass house by living their life for television cameras, but have also hurled an awful lot of stones at others with their activism against those who choose to live life differently.

So if there is an "agenda" at play here, perhaps it is to get these hypocrites to crawl down off their high horse and stop slandering gay people.

I don't think it's right that innocent, juvenile victims have been exposed through the media, but I also don't think the Duggar's have anyone to blame for this but themselves.

 

[gwynne]

Generally in the immediate aftermath of a family-centric incident the offender must be removed. Investigation and intense evaluation of the offender would take place. Dependent upon many factors the family may be then reunited at a determined point in time with safety plan in place. A safety plan addresses many areas, not simply immediate safety as you might read it to be, but ongoing measures to improve and educate long-term.

I suspect during the time the family was under court supervision many services were undertaken that the family has chosen to keep private. Participation in and successful completion of these services is probably why the case was closed. It may not be popular to say to a bloodthirsty public demanding their pound of flesh, but the reality is that by the time the authorities were involved the danger may have in fact passed, so satisfaction of treatment goals was not such a huge barrier to overcome. Sort of like undertaking disaster preparedness more methodically and calmly when you know there will be no hurricane or earthquake before you have everything in order.

We've speculated about this case at work and none of the people I've talked with who specialize in that area think there is any ongoing threat. Several of them actually have grave concern for the offender surviving this firestorm. When professionals who specialize in prosecuting and treating these crimes stop to express concern for the offender it stops you cold. It's sort of like a purple giraffe just walked in the room. Don't get me wrong, they care about the victims. More than one of them said they have a bad feeling the public sentiment and media spotlight are likely to cause a tragedy.

ETA: When I refer to preferring the house arrest over incarcerating juvenile offenders, I was referring to incarceration in "juvie" or the youth system, not jail and certainly not prison. It is common in a great many juvenile delinquency matters to keep all but hardened youth offenders out of the youth system because you wind up tipping at risk kids who are dipping their toe in the water into the deep end and coming out with hardened criminal tendencies in place.

I don't think any of the children were well served, including the son. It's really, really asking a lot to expect that he could become a lobbyist (discussing social issues) and the world would just shrug when a huge ugly truth was exposed. Many people are deeply offended by child abuse. Many people are deeply offended by intolerance. And I don't think they are wrong in how they feel.

 

[OhMari]

I agree, and its sickening the way they are profiting from this story. I don't respect them for pimping out their lives, and the lives of their children anyway, but there is a line that should be drawn when it comes to making everything into a "show".
They should have just made a statement that they will not be discussing this situation with the public out of respect for their daughters.

I totally agree. It is like the Gosselins-Kate-move on with your lives, get off tv and start healing your family.

 

[robinb]

I didn't watch the interview and I've really got no interest in either the family or this story, but one thing that crosses my mind when I see stories like this is how society views teens in such different lights. A 14 year old who does this is called a monster, pedophile, predator, should have known better, and on and on. Yet, a 14 year old who has *** with a teacher or someone older than them by even just a few years is thought to have no way of knowing what was happening, is just a victim, is too innocent, was manipulated... So which is it? I'm sure I'm not making my point very well; but it just seems to me like it can't be both.

Of course you can have it both ways. In fact, the SAME 14-year old can be both a predator and a victim depending on if s/he is abusing or being abused and many abusers have been abused themselves.

That being said, I don't think the 14-year old Josh should have been held to the adult standards of pedophilia ... and he wasn't. I think there is trend in the US (and especially here on the DIS) to want to charge teens and even pre-teens as adults and "hang 'em high". As a parent of a teen, I have to say that my DD doesn't always exhibit full adult logic and reasoning. I would rather see juvenile offenders get help than to lock them up forever. One thing that struck me in the interview is that it appeared that the Duggars said that Josh did get genuine therapy other than the contractor and the kiddie porn officer. That actually makes me feel better about the whole thing and Josh's relationship with his own daughters.

 

[TaylorEar]

Of course you can have it both ways. In fact, the SAME 14-year old can be both a predator and a victim depending on if s/he is abusing or being abused and many abusers have been abused themselves.

That being said, I don't think the 14-year old Josh should have been held to the adult standards of pedophilia ... and he wasn't. I think there is trend in the US (and especially here on the DIS) to want to charge teens and even pre-teens as adults and "hang 'em high". As a parent of a teen, I have to say that my DD doesn't always exhibit full adult logic and reasoning. I would rather see juvenile offenders get help than to lock them up forever. One thing that struck me in the interview is that it appeared that the Duggars said that Josh did get genuine therapy other than the contractor and the kiddie porn officer. That actually makes me feel better about the whole thing and Josh's relationship with his own daughters.

There are tons of whack-job "licensed counselors" out there - like the ones that practice aversion therapy. I don't think he ever received non faith-based therapy. I also don't think people are saying that he should have been charged and convicted as an adult and put into the prison system, never to be heard from again. He should have been processed through the juvenile courts. In some ways I believe that he was also a victim who was literally crying out for help, over and over. For me, that's one of the aspects of this that makes it so unfathomable.

 

[cabanafrau]

There are tons of whack-job "licensed counselors" out there - like the ones that practice aversion therapy. I don't think he ever received non faith-based therapy. I also don't think people are saying that he should have been charged and convicted as an adult and put into the prison system, never to be heard from again. He should have been processed through the juvenile courts. In some ways I believe that he was also a victim who was literally crying out for help, over and over. For me, that's one of the aspects of this that makes it so unfathomable.

Actually I suspect they would want to keep very quiet if there were indeed any non faith-based counselors involved because that wouldn't fit their image or sit well in some of their circles. In my experience of protective cases court-approved counseling and court-approved parenting classes and the like are required. I just don't think they would want that story getting out to the public.

 

[SMD]

That being said, I don't think the 14-year old Josh should have been held to the adult standards of pedophilia ... and he wasn't. I think there is trend in the US (and especially here on the DIS) to want to charge teens and even pre-teens as adults and "hang 'em high". As a parent of a teen, I have to say that my DD doesn't always exhibit full adult logic and reasoning. I would rather see juvenile offenders get help than to lock them up forever. One thing that struck me in the interview is that it appeared that the Duggars said that Josh did get genuine therapy other than the contractor and the kiddie porn officer. That actually makes me feel better about the whole thing and Josh's relationship with his own daughters.

Pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a legal term as is said in the interview. There are many things that they could have done between handling the first incidents in house and him being charged as an adult. In the 2006 police report there hadn't been any therapy yet. But Josh sued to have the records of what the state did in 2007 sealed, so if therapy did happen it was likely mandated at that point.

I suspect during the time the family was under court supervision many services were undertaken that the family has chosen to keep private. Participation in and successful completion of these services is probably why the case was closed. It may not be popular to say to a bloodthirsty public demanding their pound of flesh, but the reality is that by the time the authorities were involved the danger may have in fact passed, so satisfaction of treatment goals was not such a huge barrier to overcome. Sort of like undertaking disaster preparedness more methodically and calmly when you know there will be no hurricane or earthquake before you have everything in order.

We've speculated about this case at work and none of the people I've talked with who specialize in that area think there is any ongoing threat. Several of them actually have grave concern for the offender surviving this firestorm. When professionals who specialize in prosecuting and treating these crimes stop to express concern for the offender it stops you cold. It's sort of like a purple giraffe just walked in the room. Don't get me wrong, they care about the victims. More than one of them said they have a bad feeling the public sentiment and media spotlight are likely to cause a tragedy.

It must have been horrible to be 14, to have been raised to believe that your parents are the only authority figures and to have very little exposure to anything outside the home, and even then have the interactions and information controlled by your parents. You tell them you've done something you know is wrong and they cut off your access to your sister's bedroom but that's it. It happens 2 more times before they seek help for you. However, Josh has been preachy and arrogant for years. He goes around lobbying for FRC Action and Santorum and says things like "Our family is like the epitome of conservative values." So while I feel that his parents failed him when he was 14, I don't feel for him that this is the person he has turned out to be when at 27 he has had years to make his own choices.

 

[cabanafrau]

People who live in glass houses, should not thrown stones. It seems to me, the Duggar's have not only set up a very glass house by living their life for television cameras, but have also hurled an awful lot of stones at others with their activism against those who choose to live life differently.

So if there is an "agenda" at play here, perhaps it is to get these hypocrites to crawl down off their high horse and stop slandering gay people.

I don't think it's right that innocent, juvenile victims have been exposed through the media, but I also don't think the Duggar's have anyone to blame for this but themselves.

Which Duggars are to blame, though? Some? All? Because they have extreme views that are divisive it's okay to victimize at all costs? I don't think that's the answer. I think civilized societies settle arguments by elevating the conversation, not rolling in the gutter.

 

[cabanafrau]

Pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a legal term as is said in the interview. There are many things that they could have done between handling the first incidents in house and him being charged as an adult. In the 2006 police report there hadn't been any therapy yet. But Josh sued to have the records of what the state did in 2007 sealed, so if therapy did happen it was likely mandated at that point.


It must have been horrible to be 14, to have been raised to believe that your parents are the only authority figures and to have very little exposure to anything outside the home, and even then have the interactions and information controlled by your parents. You tell them you've done something you know is wrong and they cut off your access to your sister's bedroom but that's it. It happens 2 more times before they seek help for you. However, Josh has been preachy and arrogant for years. He goes around lobbying for FRC Action and Santorum and says things like "Our family is like the epitome of conservative values." So while I feel that his parents failed him when he was 14, I don't feel for him that this is the person he has turned out to be when at 27 he has had years to make his own choices.

Sounds similar to former smokers who viciously preach the dangers of smoking or a formerly overweight person who is completely dismissive of others struggling with their weight. Not an appealing trait or the type of person I enjoy discussing things with or hearing from.

 

[pryncess527]

Which Duggars are to blame, though? Some? All? Because they have extreme views that are divisive it's okay to victimize at all costs? I don't think that's the answer. I think civilized societies settle arguments by elevating the conversation, not rolling in the gutter.

I think the parents are to blame for both exposing their family to the public, and for teaching their children to actively advocate against equal rights & basic tolerance for other groups.


I do NOT think it is okay to victimize at all costs. I think that, by and large, the way the media has handled this has been atrocious, and agree that their television show does not mean that victims of sexual abuse waive the privacy rights they would normally receive.

 

[KathyTX]

"The Duggars" is not a banned topic as some here have stated.

HOWEVER- discussion of religion and discussion of a sexual nature are both inappropriate DIS topics. As many of the comments here as well as links to this story delve into these areas, I'm going to close this thread now.

I realize that this is a hot story across the country and many are fascinated by it, but please find a place other than the DISboards to discuss and follow it.