DUES Info! - All resorts dues have been released

[walt34]

Ok … but I don’t need bell services for my short stays. I’ve only got an overnight case. So I’m paying for someone to help you with your luggage and store your groceries until you arrive from the airport. We never use the activity room or the gym because we’re not there long enough. So, if I were to have the same mind set as you we can cut the gym, the activity room, and bell services. We all pay for the entire package of services because that how the club functions for EVERYONE.

First, I very much hope you are tipping for bell services if you need their services (I usually don’t). They also charge you for accepting packages or groceries, so also not great examples.

Further up in the thread I explained why I feel housekeeping is special: it’s about 20% of my dues, for a week at VGF in a study I pay through my dues about $230 for housekeeping. This seems a lot for one cleaning. It makes sense if you see that cleaning a room takes quite some time and if they rent out the same room to 7 different occupants thats 7 full cleanings.

Other than the gym or the pool, this cost is quite directly attributable. If I use or don’t use the pool, the pool is still there and needs to be paid. Different behaviour doesn’t change the cost for the pool significantly. But I can increase the cleaning costs 6 times by booking short stays.

So I feel that making this cost direct makes sense. But this is just my opinion. You are completely within your rights to want to keep these costs socialised.

 

[Judique]

We no longer read what is included in the ADs, mainly because we noticed there are items included that we didn't/don't use. However, it is hard to say that we'll never use items. The parking our eldest used when she lived in Florida. As our villa never seems ready any more, we started using Bell Services. In regards to housekeeping, I don't know whether it is age or short term memory, but it seemed when we joined in '08 we were suppose to take the trash out and vacuum before we left. I am not sure that is true any more because I often times can't find the vacuum. We gradually stopped doing either by 2013. DH was a fan for stopping what we were paying for in our dues. We did leave Housekeeping a much larger tip for the 3B stay when the amount of trash we left was very large (of course, there were 10 of us). We usually stay for 5N so we often request to not have the day 4 towel change. I don't know why housekeeping doesn't know this anyway. It's a waste of their time.

Trash rooms are provided and you can use them but there is no requirement.
Vacuums were originally provided for those who wanted to use them but there was no requirement. They are no longer in many of the rooms. I haven't seen one in years.

I started staying in villas about this time, and I don't remember this at all. Might be *my* memory though.

Your memory is fine with regards to this item..

You don't see that someone, who books 7 individual one-night stays necessitates 6 additional cleanings as compared to someone who stays a week? Then let's move on.

As someone who has booked individual nights BECAUSE that was the only way to get a string of nights, I can assure you that if you show up to checkin, they already have combined or somehow notated this or even called you and asked if you needed help. Perhaps if you split stay from one resort to another each night you will generate a week of full cleanings. In my case, I'm in the last few years always trying to book Boardwalk at 11 months as I have done for 25 years and I often find myself shut out and picking up rooms as people discard them as they walk along, and sometimes I end up with holes in my reservation and have to waitlist at 11 months to get what I want. In other words, the opportunity doesn't always exist to book a minimum other than one at a time.

On my most recent stay, I initially booked what I could get and then switched resorts to get all my nights at my home resort Boardwalk. I had a variety of views and did want to stay in the same room. Once there, I was helped by a CM who asked would I be okay with giving up Boardwalk View. I said yes and they combined my nights into staying in the same room and I was given a garden view studio looking out onto Village Green. I was definitely happy mostly because it was close to elevator and the boat and did NOT generate excessive house cleaning.

I think your position is kind of ridiculous.

I never said it was outside the rules or not allowed. I merely proposed a way in which this could be handled more fairly. Until then I’ll gladly subsidise your short stay visits.

I don't need you to subsidize anything for me. I play by the rules that were in place when I bought in 2000, and when or if the rules are changed I will make a decision about my membership based on that. I doubt @Sandisw needs any subsidy either. Both of us as well as the rest of the membership have the right to book a short stay as short as we desire based on what's in place now, and I doubt there will be any fast moves to change things despite the jibber jabber on this thread. I do foresee that it could happen at future new resorts, based on what is observed regarding the trend to move backwards towards old style $ on Ebay timeshares.

 

[Sandisw]

As mentioned its legal in NY to have a housekeeping fee even if you already charge for housekeeping, don’t know about FL.

However I do agree if any such change was implemented they had to prove that it wasn’t already included in the cost.

Seen from Disney perspective it could be easy money if they announced that from xx date the housekeeping costs in the budget was based on a 3 nights minimum stay. Disney would still ensure to clean for any shorter stay but those guests would be hit with a housekeeping fee. Disney could charge what ever they feel was right.

Then ppl could still book a short trip but would pay to get the room cleaned and hopefully the membership as a whole would see lower housekeeping costs.

I know that if something is covered in dues, we can’t be charged again.

And I don’t know if you are referring to Hilton timeshare or hotel. Hotels are completely different.

This has nothing to do with Disney deciding to charge to make more money.

Our dues are for operating the resort and as a collective group of owners, we are responsible for all of it and then we pay per point.

My guess would be that many owners like the flexibility of being able to stay for whatever nights they want and therefore, accept that it may mean a slightly higher budget than if it was weeks based timeshare which only has check in and out, once per week.

 

[Genie+]

At some point DVC was charging for things included in housekeeping, I’m assuming for what they considered going beyond what was budgeted for cleaning and consumables.




I can understand why DVC prefers to keep this simplified.

What I don’t like is the double impact created by confirmed reservations. First of all, DVC was never built to HOLD reservations to later sell to the public. This activity not only pulls inventory away from personal use flexibility, it causes personal use to resort to split stays when that inventory is gone.

I realize the concern around DVC making changes and unintended consequences. So far they have done a decent job of weighing pros/cons before making changes. A decades long timeshare may necessitate adjustments to meet the changing times. To me it seems the simplest way to correct growing negative impacts is through the reservation system by limiting how many changes are allowed until it becomes unreasonable/excessive.

 

[walt34]

I think your position is kind of ridiculous

I really don’t think this is warranted.

I don't need you to subsidize anything for me. I play by the rules that were in place when I bought in 2000, and when or if the rules are changed I will make a decision about my membership based on that. I doubt @Sandisw needs any subsidy either.

I’m just pointing out how the current system works (longer stays subsidise housekeeping for shorter ones). Whether you need it doesn’t matter.

 

[Sandisw]

First, I very much hope you are tipping for bell services if you need their services (I usually don’t). They also charge you for accepting packages or groceries, so also not great examples.

Further up in the thread I explained why I feel housekeeping is special: it’s about 20% of my dues, for a week at VGF in a study I pay through my dues about $230 for housekeeping. This seems a lot for one cleaning. It makes sense if you see that cleaning a room takes quite some time and if they rent out the same room to 7 different occupants thats 7 full cleanings.

Other than the gym or the pool, this cost is quite directly attributable. If I use or don’t use the pool, the pool is still there and needs to be paid. Different behaviour doesn’t change the cost for the pool significantly. But I can increase the cleaning costs 6 times by booking short stays.

So I feel that making this cost direct makes sense. But this is just my opinion. You are completely within your rights to want to keep these costs socialised.

Some, including me, have said that if you want to take it out of dues completely, assuming it legally can be taken out, and then all owners pay at check in, then everyone is paying when they use it.

Where opinions differ is that some should be covered under dues…for those who stay at least X nights…and not for others who stay less.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Everyone LOVES to complain about VDH and how they have to pay TOT at checkout and how they would never own there or stay there because of it and that they prefer VGC because TOT is built into the dues. People say TOT is the only reason VDH isnt selling well.

Point being, people don't want to pay anything at checkout. Even if it's removed from dues paying at checkout makes it feel more expensive and that makes the product less valuable.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Ok … but I don’t need bell services for my short stays. I’ve only got an overnight case. So I’m paying for someone to help you with your luggage and store your groceries until you arrive from the airport. We never use the activity room or the gym because we’re not there long enough. So, if I were to have the same mind set as you we can cut the gym, the activity room, and bell services. We all pay for the entire package of services because that how the club functions for EVERYONE.

You said it much better than I have tried to communicate.

I think the key right now is that all members pay for all cleaning and all amenities.

If DVC decided to change how they calculated housekeeping basing it on 5 or any other number of days, then I think they could charge for any stays shorter than what they budgeted.

I know that’s it’s allowed in NY but that doesn’t mean it’s allowed in FL. However I seen multiple resorts charging a housekeeping fee if you book less than 7 nights right here in FL - they are timeshares too - my guts tell me if they can so can DVC. If DVC wants to, is another question.

 

[VGCgroupie]

At some point DVC was charging for things included in housekeeping, I’m assuming for what they considered going beyond what was budgeted for cleaning and consumables.

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I can understand why DVC prefers to keep this simplified.

What I don’t like is the double impact created by confirmed reservations. First of all, DVC was never built to HOLD reservations to later sell to the public. This activity not only pulls inventory away from personal use flexibility, it causes personal use to resort to split stays when that inventory is gone.

I realize the concern around DVC making changes and unintended consequences. So far they have done a decent job of weighing pros/cons before making changes. A decades long timeshare may necessitate adjustments to meet the changing times. To me it seems the simplest way to correct growing negative impacts is through the reservation system by limiting how many changes are allowed until it becomes unreasonable/excessive.

This type of breakdown would make me sell. I dont want to be nickel and dimed. It's offensive (to me)

Wholeheartedly agree with the bolded.

 

[Sandisw]

At some point DVC was charging for things included in housekeeping, I’m assuming for what they considered going beyond what was budgeted for cleaning and consumables.

View attachment 1027082
View attachment 1027083

I can understand why DVC prefers to keep this simplified.

What I don’t like is the double impact created by confirmed reservations. First of all, DVC was never built to HOLD reservations to later sell to the public. This activity not only pulls inventory away from personal use flexibility, it causes personal use to resort to split stays when that inventory is gone.

I realize the concern around DVC making changes and unintended consequences. So far they have done a decent job of weighing pros/cons before making changes. A decades long timeshare may necessitate adjustments to meet the changing times. To me it seems the simplest way to correct growing negative impacts is through the reservation system by limiting how many changes are allowed until it becomes unreasonable/excessive.

Let’s not get off with rentals as this is about dues.

The reason those things are now included in dues is because charging per use didn’t work.

Want more towels? Just grab them from the pool? See the housekeeping cart? Grab what you need.

Cash guests didn’t have to pay for extra but DVc did…wasn’t always managed well and many times, owners weren’t charged.

So, they decided to just incorporate the cost into the dues.

It was easier and made more sense for owners to get what they needed when they needed it.

 

[Genie+]

Let’s not get off with rentals as this is about dues.

It is part of the housekeeping/dues conversation whether you see it that way or not.

 

[Sandisw]

I think the key right now is that all members pay for all cleaning and all amenities.

If DVC decided to change how they calculated housekeeping basing it on 5 or any other number of days, then I think they could charge for any stays shorter than what they budgeted.

I know that’s it’s allowed in NY but that doesn’t mean it’s allowed in FL. However I seen multiple resorts charging a housekeeping fee if you book less than 7 nights right here in FL - they are timeshares too - my guts tell me if they can so can DVC. If DVC wants to, is another question.

If other timeshares charge, then it seems to support no legal hurdle.

But, that would mean that there are certain costs not being covered by dues.

If an owner only travels short periods and is paying for cleaning every trip, then they shouldn’t be charged any dues for housekeeping.

I agree with one thing…I don’t think DVc would do it because owners, as a whole, wouldn’t see it as a good thing.

Again, if the average stay of owners was 5 nights, you don’t believe the budget should be built to cover cleaning that matches that average?

 

[Sandisw]

It is part of the housekeeping/dues conversation whether you see it that way or not.

It’s not because whether something is a rental, it does not change the amount of dues we pay.

It’s based on points….but if you want to start a new thread to discuss rentals and its impact on housekeeping, feel free.

As it is, we should probably leave the housekeeping discussion and move on.

Everyone, let’s move on. Some feel the way housekeeping budget is calculated is appropriate and some do not.

 

[Genie+]

It’s not because whether something is a rental, it does not change the amount of dues we pay.

It’s based on points….but if you want to start a new thread to discuss rentals and its impact on housekeeping, feel free.

As it is, we should probably leave the housekeeping discussion and move on.

Everyone, let’s move on. Some feel the way housekeeping budget is calculated is appropriate and some do not.

Yep. I’m fine with the current way DVC housekeeping is operated and budgeted. It’s 2 other things I’m not inline with.

 

[Cyberc1978]

When it comes to our annual dues, DVC need to adapt, and in some ways it already have.

Question is how fast or slow DVC will adapt in the future.

 

[Judique]

I really don’t think this is warranted.


I’m just pointing out how the current system works (longer stays subsidise housekeeping for shorter ones). Whether you need it doesn’t matter.

That's just your opinion.

Any stay could generate a case where a room has to be taken out of service. That is a situation that generates a loss of use that may be greater than cleaning the room 6 times in 6 days. Some situations require a room to be out of service for prescribed times, up to 48 to 72 hours after certain occupancies. There is also no data available to us directly regarding statistics of how many times rooms are occupied for one night only.

You are only putting forward what you have decided in your experience contributes to higher costs for housekeeping. You have no factual data to present.

The Disney website rents out DVC nights all the time for cash. A teeny few pennies of this comes back to offset DVC dues. I highly doubt any two night minimum or otherwise will be imposed on that situation.

 

[walt34]

Where opinions differ is that some should be covered under dues…for those who stay at least X nights…and not for others who stay less.

I never said that. The same number of housekeepings should be included or not included in the same number of points for everyone in my opinion.

Either take room housekeeping out of dues completely (reduce everyone’s dues by about 15%) and charge separately. You need to pay one cleaning per stay minimum or as many as you want. It would get a bit cheaper for people who stay longer and don’t need extra cleanings and more expensive for people with many short stays.

The other, more complex option would be to keep one cleaning per week of points in the dues and give everyone housekeeping credits equal to one cleaning per week according to their number of points. More cleanings would be billed separately. But that would be complex, because you’d need to take different point charts and room types into account.

So I feel that option one would be fair and easy but I also understand that I wouldn’t get a majority on this board.

 

[Judique]

This type of breakdown would make me sell. I dont want to be nickel and dimed. It's offensive (to me)

Wholeheartedly agree with the bolded.

When I bought in, a list similar to the one posted was in place. At BWV it wasn't exactly as posted but was similar. You had an initial supply and you were supposedly charged for asking for extra. I often wanted extra towels when traveling with the kids, but in all those years never was I charged. I did tip the delivery person. I've never read of anyone being charged for supplies.

Extra housekeeping - yes, I paid for that when some guests left and new ones took their place later in the stay.

 

[walt34]

That's just your opinion.

So, you don’t believe short stays necessitate higher cleaning costs per room and week than longer stays?

Any stay could generate a case where a room has to be taken out of service. That is a situation that generates a loss of use that may be greater than cleaning the room 6 times in 6 days. Some situations require a room to be out of service for prescribed times, up to 48 to 72 hours after certain

Oh accidents do happen. Do you believe they are frequent enough to significantly change housekeeping costs on average? If they are this frequent, wouldn’t we also be running into problems with the number of points sold at the resort? Where do these points go if rooms are taken out of circulation this frequently?

There is also no data available to us directly regarding statistics of how many times rooms are occupied for one night only.

No, but two stays in one week would already significantly increase the number of cleanings needed, don’t you think?

You are only putting forward what you have decided in your experience contributes to higher costs for housekeeping. You have no factual data to present.

As neither you nor I have internal DVC data, we will probably need to try to find out what’s most reasonable.

The Disney website rents out DVC nights all the time for cash. A teeny few pennies of this comes back to offset DVC dues. I highly doubt any two night minimum or otherwise will be imposed on that situation.

Not sure I understand what you mean. Why two night minimums?

 

[Judique]

It’s not because whether something is a rental, it does not change the amount of dues we pay.

It’s based on points….but if you want to start a new thread to discuss rentals and its impact on housekeeping, feel free.

As it is, we should probably leave the housekeeping discussion and move on.

Everyone, let’s move on. Some feel the way housekeeping budget is calculated is appropriate and some do not.

Done!