ds6 hitting dd8... suggestions please!

[bellebud]

my ds was the easiest baby and toddler in the world. then at about 4yo, he turned into 'angry little man'. he's not angry anymore, but when he and his sister (8yo) argue, he hits. This morning he punched her in the back and head (her eye to be exact) because they were fighting over the garage door button (very important stuff!) She's about a head taller and 2 years older. they've always fought occasionally, and she's no angel either. she pinches w/ her nails. after I loaded them in the car to take them to school (w/ dd crying the whole way of course), I told him he's punished after school, i'm taking him to dad's work (we own our own business) and he has to sit there, and i'm taking dd to do something special. he says "fine, i understand. and mom, if you guys go to the park, don't forget the bug spray because remember there were wasps last time." He knows in his head hitting isn't allowed, but he can't control himself. We've taken away toys (he pretty much has none left), time outs, punishments like we're doing today (i didn't take him to see a scheduled family-time Pirates 3 movie... again, i left him w/ dh and i took dd... ds still hasn't seen the movie). It's like he does it and knows right after he's getting the punishment, and he accepts it because he knows he was wrong. How do i help him control himself????????????????

 

[nessz79]

Hmmm....you said DD pinches with her fingernails. Are you sure she didn't pinch him or provoke him in some other way first? I have 2 little boys and sometimes one will provoke the other and we don't see it.

If she did, then I would ensure they are both being punished equally. Seems like 8 is old enough to catch on to this pretty quickly...she'll probably stop pinching pretty quickly.

I know with my boys that they would rather be punished then have the other get the better of them. Part of it is normal kid stuff.

Also, sounds like his punishment doesn't bother him at all. I would look into different options.

Just my 2 cents. My kids fight all the time, too, so I'm certainly not some perfect mom. I know part of it is just normal.

 

[tjmw2727]

My kids are 2yrs apart as well but they are both dd's so it may be slightly different but...

When my kids fight it is often to draw me in and get my attention. In their mind the one who gets in trouble looses/the other one wins. What worked for me is when they fought they were both held responsible. In my mind it takes two to fight/argue you don't do it alone

So I explained the rule and it worked pretty quickly, now all I have to say is "are you guys fighting" or "do you need help working that out?" and they usually find a way to work it out.

TJ

 

[squirrlygirl]

"Hands are for helping, not hurting."-one of my 6-yr. old's class rules. We have it posted in the dining room. I ask the offender which "house rule" they broke (we have more than one posted). Then the offender must apologize and then they're separated. It works much better than punishment (my ds will just take a punishment, too). They're quite big on being "right" right now so don't like to know they "broke the law" as they call it.

Also, perhaps your son sees time alone with dad as a positive?

 

[Hannathy]

Hmmm....you said DD pinches with her fingernails. Are you sure she didn't pinch him or provoke him in some other way first? I have 2 little boys and sometimes one will provoke the other and we don't see it.

If she did, then I would ensure they are both being punished equally. Seems like 8 is old enough to catch on to this pretty quickly...she'll probably stop pinching pretty quickly.

I know with my boys that they would rather be punished then have the other get the better of them. Part of it is normal kid stuff.

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This is exactly what I was thinking!! I saw my nieces doing this and the one who instigated it always got away with it. What happens to her when she pinches? does she loose a movie? Why did he say he punched her? did he have a reason. I think that is what you need to find out rather than just punishing. You need to get to the route of it. I know you said over the garage door thing-but why? Did she tease him because she got to do it and he didn't? did she pinch him to take it from him? Unless you saw the absolute whole thing and heard everything said I'd be asking some questions.

My Mom always let us deal with each other ourselves and I have done the same with my kids. I don't want to hear it. If you pinch him and he hits you well then don't pinch him. Now if he is punching all the time or out of the blue then it is a different story.

 

[StephMK]

OMG, you could be reporting from my house! My younger 2 are DS5 & DD7 and fighting like cats & dogs this week. They both get physical though he seems to do it more. Usually, they both get -well, you hit & she hit you back - don't hit if you don't like either. But I think he needs to find a way to express himself w/o being physical. I just told him today he's going to miss a fun family outing this weekend due to hitting.

I always tell them - if someone hits you, tell me then they will be in trouble & you won't. If you hit back, you'll both be in trouble.

We are going to start a sticker chart for behavior. I haven't worked out all the details but they'll either get a star or frowning face, based on how they act after school. They seem to like the idea of charts in general so I'm setting one up for chores too.

Good luck & hope there are some good suggestions here!

 

[CampbellScot]

I would be very careful with taking your dd do something "special" in response to your ds hitting. Kids are very smart and it isn't a stretch for DD to figure out that if she can provoke her brother enough, she just may get a special afternoon outing with mom. It doesn't sound like your daughter was totally the victim in the situation. She was arguing too. I also would have put the breaks on the hysterics in the car. If she wasn't broken or bleeding, we need to keep the emotional response from feeding on itself. She played a part in her own unhappiness. Everyone needs to be responsible for their choices. At 8 years old she can TOTALLY understand this. Make sure that your are requiring your daughter to take ownership of her part in the situation. She is older and needs to act accordingly. She could have made a better choice before it escalated. Walk away, tell mom, etc.

Sit your son down. Ask him why he hits. Go over things he can do when he feels angry. Make it very clear that he will be punished every time he hits, no matter what his sister did to him, hitting is NEVER okay. Same rule should apply to sister.

You need to figure out what his currency is. What "thing" does he especially love. What motivates him? Use it to your advantage. People who hit or act aggressive in any way are NOT earning time to do things they enjoy.

you just have to figure out what motivates him the most and the aggressiveness will decrease. He sounds like a VERY bright boy.

My step son is going through a similar phase. I think they are growing and testosterone is flowing. It makes for aggressive responses. Hang in there!!

 

[bellebud]

Also, sounds like his punishment doesn't bother him at all. I would look into different options.

I agree! His punishments don't really bother him.

In their mind the one who gets in trouble looses/the other one wins. TJ

a-ha! yes, the win/loose thing. I hadn't thought of that really.

They're quite big on being "right" right now so don't like to know they "broke the law" as they call it.

I like that... breaking the rule or law thing - one that's written on the fridge or somewhere.

Now if he is punching all the time or out of the blue then it is a different story.

yea, he's doing it all the time... that's how we've gotten to the point of loosing toys, movies, etc. She teases him and makes mean faces, and he just explodes w/ rage at her. (which i really do understand on his part... my brother used to tease me, and i wanted to rip his head off)... but he has to learn to not hit in response to it, or he'll end up in jail someday. believe me, i want to help him, not punish him. I'm just at a loss right now. she gets in trouble for teasing, but maybe that needs to be stepped up a notch.

OMG, you could be reporting from my house!


that makes me feel better... I often feel like mine fight more than anyone elses.


I always tell them - if someone hits you, tell me then they will be in trouble & you won't. If you hit back, you'll both be in trouble.


I tell him this all the time, and he always says he forgot, then he's mad at himself for forgetting.


We are going to start a sticker chart for behavior. I haven't worked out all the details but they'll either get a star or frowning face, based on how they act after school. They seem to like the idea of charts in general so I'm setting one up for chores too.

I will try this too! thanks for the idea!

I would be very careful with taking your dd do something "special" in response to your ds hitting. Kids are very smart and it isn't a stretch for DD to figure out that if she can provoke her brother enough, she just may get a special afternoon outing with mom.

I'll remember that! I won't do the special thing w/ her again. I can see where it could easily backfire. thanks!!

You need to figure out what his currency is.

hey, have you read Dr. Phil's book? He calls it currency too!

I'm still trying to figure that out... he does love fishing more than anything... maybe i'll make a chart, and for every day he doesn't hit, he gets a sticker, and so many stickers get him a fishing trip w/ dad? Is that how it should work (rewarding the good behavior instead of punishing the bad... although he'll still get *punished* for hitting, but a time out or something not to do w/ the chart???) what do you all think?

And just a big thank you to all of you for your responses! I never thought my kids would hit, and i always said i wouldn't "allow" it, which i never have, but it still happens. Thank goodness ds is very well behaved in school (never has hit or anything there) and is a good student. But as soon as he's home, he's a terror. I sometimes feel like the kids absolutely hate each other, and it breaks my heart. thanks again!!

 

[tjmw2727]

snip
And just a big thank you to all of you for your responses! I never thought my kids would hit, and i always said i wouldn't "allow" it, which i never have, but it still happens. Thank goodness ds is very well behaved in school (never has hit or anything there) and is a good student. But as soon as he's home, he's a terror. I sometimes feel like the kids absolutely hate each other, and it breaks my heart. thanks again!!

Oh don't worry - all kids do something we never thought they would Sounds like you are being aggressive and just haven't hit the right solution yet.

In addition to the rewards for good behavior try and give little to no emotion when you have to punish him for hitting. We all know kids get a charge out of any attention even negative attention but it is really hard to not give it. Set up a punshiment for hitting with him ahead of time so you can impliment it with minimal "engagement and explanation"

In regard to them not getting along, can you take some time out each weekend for a family project where they need to work together? Decorating or landscaping project for fall, building something or even just cleaning out the garage. Try and set up situations where they need to work together and can appreciate their accomplishments.

A fish tank is one thing that brought my dd's closer. We got a small tank and they each picked out 3 fish. They have to work together to feed the fish, clean the tank etc or the fish die It did take loosing a couple fish and one week with a very green tank but now they take pride in their fishtank.

Just another idea I thought I would throw out for you.

TJ

 

[Stephres]

I use the count method with my kids' behavior. I count one, two, three and then they used to get a time out. When that didn't faze them I turned to losing tv/computer/video game privileges for the day. And fighting with each other always resulted in counting for both of them. Usually by the time I get to "two," one or both of them will figure out how to work it out or walk away from the situation. It kind of sounds to me that your daughter is getting away with a lot because she is more subtle. Keep at it and you'll find something that works. Good luck!

 

[CampbellScot]

I work with emotionally/behaviorally disordered children. So I see a lot of hitting. I DO love me some Dr.Phil, although I didn't know he was using MY word!

Having your son earn a fishing trip with Dad is a GREAT idea. Earning a set number of stickers to earn a fishing trip will give him something to work towards. It teaches him that good behavior does have it's positives. Rewarding good behavior works.

I'll tell you what though...when it comes to your daughter. If you catch her making faces at your son, or instigating him in any way, NAIL HER. She needs to be punished immediately. Praise him for keeping control of his temper. He needs to see that it's not all up to him to keep things going smoothly. Let your daughter see that her behavior has consequences as well. Young children, boys in particular, at the age your son is at, have a VERY difficult time with impulse control. Having someone push your buttons until you snap is so unfair. Your little guy sounds like he WANTS to be good, holds it in as long as he can until he has been pushed beyond the limit. That limit is going to get shorter and shorter as he continues to be punished for something he is being goaded into doing. There is no excuse for hitting, but you almost understand why he gets so enraged.

My big sister had a cruel streak a MILE long and she used to do the same thing to me. I'm sure your daughter isn't anything like my sister, but it's a cruel thing to torment someone into a rage and then get a reward for doing it!

I'll be your little guy will SO excited about the fishing trip. Catch him being good, praise him like mad, and harness your daughters totally natural but still not nice need to torment her little brother...I'll bet things even out more quickly than you expect!!

Good luck!!!