DS has to re-do Math homework......

[golfgal]

I'm not looking to get into an argument with anyone on this board, therefore, I will wrap up my portion of this thread with the following....

I know for a fact she received the note. I sent it via email and the school email system allows me to see when the teacher has opened the email. The school policy states if a teacher is in the classroom he/she has 48 hours to respond to any emails (even if it is to just state that they will look into it).

This isn't my first face to face meeting with the teacher. We had open house the night before school started to meet the teachers. This is a night to meet as a group, now that they've had a couple of weeks to get adjusted, to discuss any problems and/or concerns.

I won't be embarrassed because I don't care what people think of me when I'm being an advocate for my child.

Lastly, if the teacher doesn't want to discuss it pertaining to my child specifically then I will be more than happy to address it as a whole. Why would she sign off on something that wasn't written down correctly? Does she even read things before she signs them because that's the point of her signing the agendas the first few weeks of school? Is it normal for her not to respond to a parents questions/concerns in over a week? Does she not abide by the school policy? Why would she waste materials?

I'm sure I won't be the only parent there interested in knowing the answer to all or at least some of these questions. I may be the only one willing to ask.

I know to most people it shouldn't have been that big of a deal. I'll admit I wasn't as upset after I had time to cool off, however, I don't think that's a reason to just let it go. I think the teacher and my ds share the responsibility in being wrong.

No you are not, you are trying to get YOUR WAY. The teacher gave your child an assignment and your child did it wrong-plain and simple. If you were truly advocating for your child you would do what was best for your child and that would be to teach him that he better pay more attention next time and follow directions. Advocating for your child don't mean you throw a hissy fit for the teacher because you don't like something she did.

 

[MELSMICE]

No you are not, you are trying to get YOUR WAY. The teacher gave your child an assignment and your child did it wrong-plain and simple. If you were truly advocating for your child you would do what was best for your child and that would be to teach him that he better pay more attention next time and follow directions. Advocating for your child don't mean you throw a hissy fit for the teacher because you don't like something she did.

I agree.

The best thing at this point would be to teach your child a the lesson that he should always double check everything. In this case it would be that he wrote the assignment correctly.

We have always taught our DD's not to depend on anyone but themselves to get something done correctly.

I know he's only in 4th grade, but just a simple, "It really stinks that you have to redo the math homework. I thought what we did was OK, but I guess not. Even though Mrs. Smith checks your agenda, she has to check everyone's agendas so she might have missed that you wrote the assignment incorrectly. Next time make sure you double check that your assignment is written correctly so you don't have to do extra work."

 

[chicagoshannon]

If you included a note on his paper when he turned it in stating what you had him do and why then I woudn't have made him redo the assignment.

If you did not include a note then I see now problem with what the teacher did.

 

[design_mom]

I am still surprised that a 4th grade teacher would check every single agenda pad to make sure the assignment has been written down correctly. Second grade, sure. Talk about wasting time. By 4th grade, children should have been taught to habitually write down their assignments - my 4th grader has no one checking what she wrote.

I agree. We had Curriculum Night last night for my son's 4th grade class. The teacher made a point of saying that at the end of each day, they will review the assignments that are due, but it's the students' responsibility to write them down in their agendas. She will not be checking the agendas. It's part of learning personal responsibility.

It sounds to me like the teacher gave him a "do over" for the first time...which I think was nice. He's allowed to go back and fix his mistake. She could have given him a zero, or at least a point deduction for failure to follow directions.

I would be annoyed if the teacher didn't respond to the OP's e-mail as promised. Maybe "what's the best way to reach you if we have concerns?" or "what are your thoughts on doing more than the assignment requests, or working ahead in the book?" might be appropriate things to ask at the Open House, but I don't think it would be appropriate to bring up this particular incident.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't think some of you are being fair. I find it hard to believe that so many of you have NEVER questioned a teacher's methods before. Its not an attack. This is your child and you have the right to find out why the teacher does something a certain way.

If this open house is specifically for question and addressing problems then it would be appropriate for the OP to bring it up. Its a question and a problem so it fits the criteria. I would just say, "I think several of us may have a question about the math homework that was returned".

Asking a question is not making a mountain out of a molehill and its not wanting your way--its asking a question. And, if it was me, I would want to know what she expected the next time a child forgets the exact directions. And kids do forget and they forget directions.

Everyone keeps bringing up following directions on the job. Most people are givin directions to do something and they do it then, not two days later so the chance to forget is much smaller. Actually, I am secretary to the dean on our campus and when I am given work to do I am given "general" directions--not exact and I complete the work by those directions. If I improve upon the document or project, its a GOOD thing; not something to be reprimanded for.

Most of the schools around here have the teachers intial the kids planners to show that the child did, in fact, write it down correctly and then the parent signs to show that they saw the planner and the homework assigned. The do this through 4th grade, in 5th and 6th the teacher doesn't intial only the parent signs (unless a child repeatedly doesn't write it down correctly and then they revert back to the teacher intialing the planner) after 6th, the hope is that they have the habit ingrained enough that they will continue writing it down.

 

[jodifla]

I don't think some of you are being fair. I find it hard to believe that so many of you have NEVER questioned a teacher's methods before. Its not an attack. This is your child and you have the right to find out why the teacher does something a certain way.

If this open house is specifically for question and addressing problems then it would be appropriate for the OP to bring it up. Its a question and a problem so it fits the criteria. I would just say, "I think several of us may have a question about the math homework that was returned".

Asking a question is not making a mountain out of a molehill and its not wanting your way--its asking a question. And, if it was me, I would want to know what she expected the next time a child forgets the exact directions. And kids do forget and they forget directions.

Everyone keeps bringing up following directions on the job. Most people are givin directions to do something and they do it then, not two days later so the chance to forget is much smaller. Actually, I am secretary to the dean on our campus and when I am given work to do I am given "general" directions--not exact and I complete the work by those directions. If I improve upon the document or project, its a GOOD thing; not something to be reprimanded for.

Most of the schools around here have the teachers intial the kids planners to show that the child did, in fact, write it down correctly and then the parent signs to show that they saw the planner and the homework assigned. The do this through 4th grade, in 5th and 6th the teacher doesn't intial only the parent signs (unless a child repeatedly doesn't write it down correctly and then they revert back to the teacher intialing the planner) after 6th, the hope is that they have the habit ingrained enough that they will continue writing it down.

Also, IRL, you can go ask for clarification if you need it, or just forgot. Happens all the time to adults.

 

[design_mom]

I don't think some of you are being fair. I find it hard to believe that so many of you have NEVER questioned a teacher's methods before. Its not an attack. This is your child and you have the right to find out why the teacher does something a certain way.

I definitely think it's fair to question a teacher if you don't understand why she's doing something. However, in this case, the explanation that the son received -- you didn't follow the directions, so you need to do it again -- would have been acceptable to me.

If my child wanted to go "above and beyond" (my son loves math, too) and I was worried that she was squashing his enthusiasm by not allowing him to complete all the problems, I would ask the teacher about challenge worksheets and/or websites that she could recommend for more practice. My son gets a "challenge binder" in class that has extra work in it. And would probably finish up the rest of those problems once the paper came home.

Everyone keeps bringing up following directions on the job. Most people are givin directions to do something and they do it then, not two days later so the chance to forget is much smaller.

I don't necessarily think that's true. If you take an "action item" from a meeting and need to have it ready by the next week's meeting -- you often don't run out that minute and do it, because you have other things you need to do, too. I often receive assignments on Thursday or Friday and don't have the chance to begin them till the next week. You have to be organized. You need to write things down. These are the skills that the teacher is trying to teach.

I think the teacher was fair in what she did. She made him re-do the assignment, but it doesn't sound like she marked him down for doing it incorrectly in the first place.

It would bother me if she didn't respond to my e-mail though. I don't blame the OP for being upset about that.

 

[C.Ann]

Actually, I would say that if you found a way to do it better, you speak to someone BEFORE you do it differently then you are told. There may be a real reason that you were given the directions you were given and who knows what you might mess up if you take it upon yourself and do it "your way".

NEVER would I just decide to do something as not directed.

The approach stated above would be the correct way to handle a situation with an employer..

Where I work yes you are given directions BUT if you can find a better way of doing something and can show it to your line leader the company listens and if it agrees you get rewarded. So going the extra mile to make the firm better is good but the way you are saying is keep quiet and do the bare minimum

This approach resulted in the firing of the secretary of the medical office I used to work in.. Doctors - in particular - are not fond of employees who think they know more than they do..

In a school setting, if students choose not to follow directions it can easily result in mayhem.. Why have directions or rules if students are allowed to pick and choose which ones they will or won't follow? The case in question was simply a math assignment - nothing earth shattering or in any way harmful to a student..

There are things worth challenging a teacher on every now and then, but this would be far too minor to me to be making a huge fuss about.. Of course that's just my opinion.. I'd save the battles for the "big"' stuff..

 

[luvsJack]

The approach stated above would be the correct way to handle a situation with an employer..



This approach resulted in the firing of the secretary of the medical office I used to work in.. Doctors - in particular - are not fond of employees who think they know more than they do..

In a school setting, if students choose not to follow directions it can easily result in mayhem.. Why have directions or rules if students are allowed to pick and choose which ones they will or won't follow? The case in question was simply a math assignment - nothing earth shattering or in any way harmful to a student..

There are things worth challenging a teacher on every now and then, but this would be far too minor to me to be making a huge fuss about.. Of course that's just my opinion.. I'd save the battles for the "big"' stuff..

Sounds to me like those doctors need a robot not a living, breathing, THINKING human being to work for them. I cannot fathom someone who does not want an employee that can think for themselves and figure out better and/or simpler ways to do things. I could never work for anyone that didn't allow me to think outside the box. Everyday either my direct boss or one of the dept. I help out will tell me they need something and "xxxx is what they need it to do for them." I then design the document, make the spreadsheet, write the report or complete the project and make it do what they need it to do. I can't imagine being fired for making it do MORE!! This is the third department I have worked in on campus (promotions) and none have expected things to be exactly to specifications and no more.

I agree with the poster who said you have to be organized and make notes or whatever works for you to remember what is needed but like someone else said, an employee can always talk to their boss or whoever for some clarification, the OP's child didn't have that option. Comparing an employee to a child/student just isn't the same thing.

Kids need lessons in following directions, this is true. I don't particularly agree with this method and there are a billion activities teachers can do that helps kids learn to follow directions that do not include making them re-do already completed work.

I just don't see asking a question as a huge fuss. And the OP needs to know what to tell her child to do if the situation comes up again.

Kids forget--its part of being kids. Thats why they have planners in the first place. If she intialed or signed the planner, then its partly her fault that the directions were not followed. If her reason for signing the planner is not to say that the assignment was written correctly then that is something the OP needs to know and that should be part of her answer to the OP.

I don't mean that the teacher is 100% wrong. Once it is explained the OP may completely understand why things were done the way they were, but the OP has the right to ask.

 

[C.Ann]

I don't mean that the teacher is 100% wrong. Once it is explained the OP may completely understand why things were done the way they were, but the OP has the right to ask.

Of course she has the right to ask.. It's her child - not mine - and as a parent, only she can decide what, when, where, and how she wants to approach this issue.. Just because I would handle it differently doesn't make me right and her wrong - or vice versa.. It's simply a matter of differing opinions..

 

[mjkacmom]

And, if it was me, I would want to know what she expected the next time a child forgets the exact directions. And kids do forget and they forget directions.
.

As a parent who had 2 children already complete fourth grade, and who has a current fourth grader, you tell your child to call a classmate. Fourth grade is the first year the kids are expected to write down their assignments, and the worst year for forgetfullness. I ended up buying all of the textbooks and notebooks used, because my kids would forget them, forget to write down assignments, etc. By fifth grade, things improved a lot, mostly because of how strict the fourth grade teachers were when assignments were missed, or not done as asked.

 

[design_mom]

I could never work for anyone that didn't allow me to think outside the box. Everyday either my direct boss or one of the dept. I help out will tell me they need something and "xxxx is what they need it to do for them." I then design the document, make the spreadsheet, write the report or complete the project and make it do what they need it to do. I can't imagine being fired for making it do MORE!! This is the third department I have worked in on campus (promotions) and none have expected things to be exactly to specifications and no more.

I think that's a different sort of situation. You do have some leeway there. But if they said "I need to you to put together the list of the expenses for the last campaign," you'd better to that... not a comprehensive list of expenses for *all* the campaigns because you couldn't remember which campaign you needed to do.

...but like someone else said, an employee can always talk to their boss or whoever for some clarification, the OP's child didn't have that option. Comparing an employee to a child/student just isn't the same thing.

Mistakes do happen sometimes, but if an employee does that a lot, it's not going to look good. The same thing with the student. The teacher didn't penalize him (gradewise), she just made him redo it correctly.

The child did have options. (And I'm not saying that I would have done anything differently than the OP did originally. I probably would have told my son to do all the problems, too, and would have assumed that would be okay. But now that we know that the teacher is a stickler for following directions, I'd try something else.)
-- The OP mentioned that assignments are posted on the school website. He could have checked there. (Our school doesn't do that.)
-- The son could have called a classmate and asked for the assignment.
-- The son/OP could have e-mailed the teacher. Maybe she wouldn't have answered over the weekend, but maybe she would have.

 

[luvsJack]

As a parent who had 2 children already complete fourth grade, and who has a current fourth grader, you tell your child to call a classmate. Fourth grade is the first year the kids are expected to write down their assignments, and the worst year for forgetfullness. I ended up buying all of the textbooks and notebooks used, because my kids would forget them, forget to write down assignments, etc. By fifth grade, things improved a lot, mostly because of how strict the fourth grade teachers were when assignments were missed, or not done as asked.

Really? At our school the kids start writing down homework in first grade!! They are given a planner by the school each year from grade one. They write down their assignments each day, the teacher intials it and writes any little notes she wants to say to the parents, the parent signs it that night when homework is completed. They still forget but by jr. high its pretty much instilled in them to write it down.

Its been that way since oldest ds was in school and he's 28 now.

Its interesting how things are done so differently from one school to another.

 

[Skywalker]

My son takes piano...he played a few pieces ahead in the book, and the teacher told him not to go ahead until he was taught the pieces. He did not say this to crush my son's enthusiasm, but he explained that we learn habits, and if he goes ahead and plays the music he may be "learning" things wrong and then practising it the wrong way, then it becomes a hard habit to unlearn. Better to wait and be shown properly.

So, its possible the teacher was thinking to see a few sample problems to correct any issues before they became habit.

Now your son may have been a whiz at it. But it is a good habit to learn for the next time, in a subject he may not have grasped as well as he thought he did.

Let the teacher teach. "advocating" for your child on this issue is just silly.

 

[bumbershoot]

Sounds to me like those doctors need a robot not a living, breathing, THINKING human being to work for them. I cannot fathom someone who does not want an employee that can think for themselves and figure out better and/or simpler ways to do things. I could never work for anyone that didn't allow me to think outside the box. Everyday either my direct boss or one of the dept. I help out will tell me they need something and "xxxx is what they need it to do for them." I then design the document, make the spreadsheet, write the report or complete the project and make it do what they need it to do. I can't imagine being fired for making it do MORE!! This is the third department I have worked in on campus (promotions) and none have expected things to be exactly to specifications and no more.

I agree. Dh's company actually gives awards to people when they think of something, figure out how to do it, and DO it. The companies that he's worked for that stifle things like that are just awful to work for...

I think that's a different sort of situation. You do have some leeway there. But if they said "I need to you to put together the list of the expenses for the last campaign," you'd better to that... not a comprehensive list of expenses for *all* the campaigns because you couldn't remember which campaign you needed to do.

But in this situation, the employer would have been given a list of 10 campaigns to get expenses, for, and eventually ALL of the campaign expenses would have been worked on. So you forget which one, and your CEO doesn't actually read your email asking for clarification, and your manager says "hmm, just go ahead and do it all". And you do it all. And then you get in trouble because they wanted them one at a time.

Why not just be happy that the employee could do them all, and that now it's all done?



But school can be so much worse than jobs, especially jobs at forward-thinking companies. So when you try to do something good, it can backfire. I once blatantly ignored my Spanish teacher (8th grade) telling us that we were NOT learning the plural formal tense (at all, EVER, as "no one" used it...but with a different teacher we needed to know it for reading literature 3 years down the road, so whatever), I went ahead and learned it, then on a test I put it all down *thinking* she would be impressed. She was not. Sigh.

 

[Phlip]

I usually don't post on threads like this, but since I have the need for mindless silliness due to the extreme stress I am under....

OP--you are totally right. Don't over think it, teacher is being a power tripping poop head.

People, this is 4th grade, kid is probably 9 years old. 9. Nine. So what, he forgot-it's the first, or second week of school teacher should cut him some slack. Geez he did the work, it's not like he blew it off and did nothing.

Have a great day-

 

[ban26ana]

I think that 4th grade is a big "study skills" year. They really push listening to directions, writing down your homework assignments, doing rough drafts of essays, etc. At least that's how it was when I was in 4th grade. (My kids are nowhere near that age yet.)

I also had the whole "read all directions first" assignment. And it was when I was in 4th grade. Our teacher told us a million times to read all the directions before doing it. And not one of us listened. It was funny to watch us all frantically erasing all of our answers when we got to the bottom and saw that we weren't supposed to write anything.

Fourth grade was also a year that we were responsible for writing down our own homework assignments in our own notebooks. We supplied them, we were the ones who had to figure out a system that worked for us for how we would remember it. I still use the shorthand that I developed in 4th grade.

Your son didn't work ahead because he was bored. He did it because you guys weren't sure of the assignment. I stand by the teacher.

 

[luvsJack]

I am still curious. For those that agree he should be punsihed for doing all the problems, what should the OP have done instead when faced with his not knowing for sure what to do?

I mean c'mon now lets be realistic. The child is going ot forget again. He's human and he's a child. So, he get excited about the weekend and forgets to write down his whole assignment. Should she just tell him not to do any of it? Is that a better solution?

If he can't call someone (maybe he doesn't have their numbers? all of dd's friends ended up in a different class one year, it was later in the year before she had some people to call), and the assignment isn't posted online; what should they do? (we have assignments posted online, IF its kept up with which its not most of the time)

If the teacher is going to punish the child for coming up with a solution for not knowing what to do then she should have alternative suggestions.

 

[ban26ana]

I am still curious. For those that agree he should be punsihed for doing all the problems, what should the OP have done instead when faced with his not knowing for sure what to do?

I don't think she did anything wrong. But I think that her ds needs to own up to the fact that he didn't properly record the assignment, so he was "punished" for it. You can't shield your kid from every punishment.

 

[design_mom]

I am still curious. For those that agree he should be punsihed for doing all the problems, what should the OP have done instead when faced with his not knowing for sure what to do?

I mean c'mon now lets be realistic. The child is going ot forget again. He's human and he's a child. So, he get excited about the weekend and forgets to write down his whole assignment. Should she just tell him not to do any of it? Is that a better solution?

If he can't call someone (maybe he doesn't have their numbers? all of dd's friends ended up in a different class one year, it was later in the year before she had some people to call), and the assignment isn't posted online; what should they do? (we have assignments posted online, IF its kept up with which its not most of the time)

If the teacher is going to punish the child for coming up with a solution for not knowing what to do then she should have alternative suggestions.

1) I do not think the teacher "punished" the child. She simply made him re-do the assignment according to the directions.

2) As I mentioned before, for this assignment I probably would have done the exact same thing the OP did. Lesson learned. Next time, I would do something differently.

3) My son's friends all ended up in different classes this year, too. However, we've got last year's school directory. I'm sure he could find someone in the new class. And, if things got really desperate, I'd guess that if a directory didn't exist, he'd probably be able to find a friend who is friends with someone else in his class and could get their number.

4) Failing that, I would have the student e-mail the teacher, or write a letter, asking for the assignment again and outlining the steps he'd taken to try to solve the problem himself. Either way, it sounds like he won't get credit for the assignment if it's not done correctly, so I guess he'd have to "take his lumps."

I do agree that kids make mistakes, but I don't think the teacher "punished him" for it. Kids learn by making mistakes. They learn how to solve problems... they learn to be more responsible next time... and they learn how to take responsibility for their choices/actions.