Driving to Florida soon from Ontario, worried and scared

[Dizneefamily+4]

Not just Mexico but areas of Europe as well.

Well yes, there are actually a large number of countries listed in the travel warnings. I referenced Mexico specifically because of the many posters upthread that compared Canadian's fearing travel to the US to Americans fearing traveling to Mexico.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Several posters have referenced "Americans saying that they're afraid to travel to Mexico" is the same as Canadians saying they're afraid to travel to the U.S. I don't see that as being the same thing at all. There is a standing Mexico Travel Warning from the U.S. State Department. https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/mexico-travel-warning.html
"U.S. citizens have been the victims of violent crimes, such as homicide, kidnapping, carjacking, and robbery by organized criminal groups in various Mexican states." I haven't heard of any criminal groups in the U.S. targeting Canadian citizens for any of the above crimes - or any crimes for that matter.

I know Mexicans who won't go home anymore because travel is so treacherous in some areas. Sad, really.

 

[Bluestars]

I think the open carry laws will make it more challenging for law enforcement to do their jobs in today's society. I actually think this is already the case. With all of the mass shootings and other shootings in the U.S., if someone is seen openly carrying a gun, whether it is legal or not, they are likely to be perceived as a threat in many areas (Texas and a few other areas being exceptions I'm sure). In Charlotte, the police contend that the man they killed had a gun. Since N.C. permits people to openly carry guns, it is interesting that this was a reason given that they confronted him.

The people who can openly carry a gun have to go through a course and get fingerprinted. They are taught how to respond to law enforcement. The problem with police shootings is that the person is usually resisting arrest and is seen as a threat to the officer. It's the people who are not able to legally carry guns but do who are the real threats.

 

[Dentam]

The people who can openly carry a gun have to go through a course and get fingerprinted. They are taught how to respond to law enforcement. The problem with police shootings is that the person is usually resisting arrest and is seen as a threat to the officer. It's the people who are not able to legally carry guns but do who are the real threats.

I understand that, but can you see based on recent incidents how a black man specifically can be lawfully carrying a gun and be perceived as a threat by law enforcement, regardless of how he responds to the officers? There is a clear issue in this country with these particular situations, although many would deny it.

 

[SirDuff]

Thanks for the correction - I was looking at the chart incorrectly. What's the level of advisory from the State Department (if any)?

No, actually, they don't have any warning or alert for France. They do have information in the "Safety and Security" section, but no official warning or alert.

BTW - I apologise that my previous post (the one you quoted) reads quite harsh. I didn't mean it to - sometimes am too much "too the point" and it comes across as terse/rude. So, my apologies.

 

[ronandannette]

No, actually, they don't have any warning or alert for France. They do have information in the "Safety and Security" section, but no official warning or alert.

BTW - I apologise that my previous post (the one you quoted) reads quite harsh. I didn't mean it to - sometimes am too much "too the point" and it comes across as terse/rude. So, my apologies.

Not a problem - I made a mistake reading the chart and I always stand to be corrected on facts. I was trying to inform the OP and used a bad example.

 

[ronandannette]

Well yes, there are actually a large number of countries listed in the travel warnings. I referenced Mexico specifically because of the many posters upthread that compared Canadian's fearing travel to the US to Americans fearing traveling to Mexico.

That is interesting in a way, because Canadians flock to Mexican resort destinations in droves. And also ironic is the young CFL up-and-commer who was shot here in a nightclub ruckus this weekend. He played his college ball at Michigan State and was apparently born and raised in Detroit. Pretty sure his family never dreamed he would die such a violent death in Calgary.

 

[luvsJack]

I understand that, but can you see based on recent incidents how a black man specifically can be lawfully carrying a gun and be perceived as a threat by law enforcement, regardless of how he responds to the officers? There is a clear issue in this country with these particular situations, although many would deny it.

In the cases you are seeing on the news and causing the riots, protests etc, the number of these men who were illegally carrying a gun far out weigh the ones carrying legally. Felons cannot legally have a gun.

 

[Dentam]

In the cases you are seeing on the news and causing the riots, protests etc, the number of these men who were illegally carrying a gun far out weigh the ones carrying legally. Felons cannot legally have a gun.

You didn't answer my question. My original point was that I see open carry laws becoming more problematic for law enforcement to deal with. Does law enforcement know the felons from the others before they confront them in all of these cases?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I understand that, but can you see based on recent incidents how a black man specifically can be lawfully carrying a gun and be perceived as a threat by law enforcement, regardless of how he responds to the officers? There is a clear issue in this country with these particular situations, although many would deny it.

Possibly, but in a way a holstered pistol in plain sight could be seen as less threatening than one that you discover suddenly tucked in a waistband, neither of which is anywhere near as bad as one in someone's hand.


Edit: reminds me of a passage from my favorite book. There is a black mamba in the outhouse. The author knows it's in there, but he's not sure where, and that bothers him more than if he could see it.

 

[Dentam]

Possibly, but in a way a holstered pistol in plain sight could be seen as less threatening than one that you discover suddenly tucked in a waistband, neither of which is anywhere near as bad as one in someone's hand.

So you don't think open carry laws will begin to cause problems after all of the recent shootings? I think they could, not just for law enforcement but from citizens who are on edge about possible active shooters. I know if I saw someone openly carrying here (regardless of their gender, race or nationality) I would probably call the police. Better to be paranoid than dead.

 

[ols386]

Have either of you ever even been to Detroit? It's like Iraq? Dying to know what your basis for making that leap is.

Me too.
Downtown Detroit is actually very nice. I suppose if you get into the outskirts of downtown, it might not be as nice (don't really know as have not been there), but downtown is nice.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

So you don't think open carry laws will begin to cause problems after all of the recent shootings? I think they could, not just for law enforcement but from citizens who are on edge about possible active shooters. I know if I saw someone openly carrying here (regardless of their gender, race or nationality) I would probably call the police. Better to be paranoid than dead.

Starting with the citizen reaction, yes I believe open carry puts many on edge. I'm not a fan. As for how it impacts law enforcement, I just don't know. My gut says if the guy has something to hide, he's certainly not going to put his gun on display. So again the gun you see might be perceived as less of a threat than the one you don't. Hard to say.

 

[Dentam]

Starting with the citizen reaction, yes I believe open carry puts many on edge. I'm not a fan. As for how it impacts law enforcement, I just don't know. My gut says if the guy has something to hide, he's certainly not going to put his gun on display. So again the gun you see might be perceived as less of a threat than the one you don't. Hard to say.

Yeah, I can see that from a law enforcement perspective. Good point.

 

[luvsJack]

You didn't answer my question. My original point was that I see open carry laws becoming more problematic for law enforcement to deal with. Does law enforcement know the felons from the others before they confront them in all of these cases?

The post I quoted didnt ask a question.

Most law abiding citizens, carrying a gun, are going to act right. They aren't going to wave it around, point it at the officers, etc. Most will tell the officers they have the gun if asked and where it is and proceed as instructed. Very different than those who are breaking the law or carrying illegally will act.

 

[Dentam]

I understand that, but can you see based on recent incidents how a black man specifically can be lawfully carrying a gun and be perceived as a threat by law enforcement, regardless of how he responds to the officers? There is a clear issue in this country with these particular situations, although many would deny it.

The post I quoted didnt ask a question.

Most law abiding citizens, carrying a gun, are going to act right. They aren't going to wave it around, point it at the officers, etc. Most will tell the officers they have the gun if asked and where it is and proceed as instructed. Very different than those who are breaking the law or carrying illegally will act.

It did actually - see above.

I don't recall hearing that any of the recent victims of these shootings by police were waving guns around or pointing them at officers.

 

[pat fan]

I don't recall hearing that any of the recent victims of these shootings by police were waving guns around or pointing them at officers.

Didn't the one in Charlotte have his gun in his hand?

 

[luvsJack]

It did actually - see above.

I don't recall hearing that any of the recent victims of these shootings by police were waving guns around or pointing them at officers.

Your post pointed specfically to the black men who have been shot by police. I respnded to that.

Most of those men were not carrying legally. They did not comply with the police. In these cases the officers did not shoot these men simply because they had a gun.

I have a friend at work who carries a gun in his car (legally). He was pulled over. He kept his hands on the wheel of his car. When he was asked for inurance proof, he told the officer where it was before he reached for it. The officer gave him a warning and he drove away. Very much alive. He is black. He did not have to be told anything more than once, he complyed with the officer and he didn't even get a ticket. That is how a law abiding person acts, regardless of race. And that is the difference.

 

[Dentam]

Your post pointed specfically to the black men who have been shot by police. I respnded to that.

Most of those men were not carrying legally. They did not comply with the police. In these cases the officers did not shoot these men simply because they had a gun.

I have a friend at work who carries a gun in his car (legally). He was pulled over. He kept his hands on the wheel of his car. When he was asked for inurance proof, he told the officer where it was before he reached for it. The officer gave him a warning and he drove away. Very much alive. He is black. He did not have to be told anything more than once, he complyed with the officer and he didn't even get a ticket. That is how a law abiding person acts, regardless of race. And that is the difference.

But I did ask a question.

Unfortunately that is not how it worked out for Philando Castile, who was carrying legally and let the officer know that.

 

[Dentam]

Didn't the one in Charlotte have his gun in his hand?

As far as I know the videos have not shown that. As I said before, if he was pointing a gun at officers than I could see how they could justify shooting him.