Downtown Disney Development Updates?

[David Raguso]

my friend was just at WDW and they heard theres a chance that the bars might come back? people were saying that no shopping or dining outlets are buying the property has disney has hoped.

anyone else hearing the same thing?

 

[disneynutz]

Not likely. Attendance at Pleasure Island had fallen off to a point where the cost benefit showed that it was better to close them down.

The area also attracted undesirable locals and created a lot of negative press for Disney.

 

[Chuck S]

It is possible that the Adventurer's club could be rehabbed and updated to present 2 or 3 dinner shows per night of some type. But I agree with disneynutz, it is highly unlikely that the clubs, as we knew them, will simply reopen without modifications. The Adventurer's Club show elements are in need of a rehab anyway, though the colors and fabrics were subdued to fit the theme, even those were showing obvious wear and tear. I'm sure SSR owners who purchased specifically for the convenience of being near the clubs are disappointed, but no one could expect the area to remain untouched forever...things are always changing at Disney..and if overall the club/PI area was not profitable, even if some individual clubs were making $$$, it makes little sense not to make some changes...but again, I think the Adv Club theme would lend itself well to a dinner show, maybe a haunted house/mystery dinner show incorporating many of the existing club show elements.

 

[Really_Goofy_Daddy]

We were there last year a month before they closed the doors of PI for good. The attendance was...well there wasn't any. At best there were 100 people in the whole area. It seemed as though there were more security and Deputy Sherriffs than guests. Me and the DW went into the 70s club around 1130, and there was about 10 people in there, and 3 bartenders upstairs and 2 down, 5 security walking around and the DJ. What ever they made that night could not even pay the staff!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

We were there last year a month before they closed the doors of PI for good. The attendance was...well there wasn't any. At best there were 100 people in the whole area. It seemed as though there were more security and Deputy Sherriffs than guests. Me and the DW went into the 70s club around 1130, and there was about 10 people in there, and 3 bartenders upstairs and 2 down, 5 security walking around and the DJ. What ever they made that night could not even pay the staff!

I have reason to believe the AC will reopen, but I'm unsure of the format.
The other bars can be found in other cities, but the AC is truly unique.

Kungaloosh!
MG

 

[bigsmooth]

I just listened to Lou Mongello's podcast for this week, he hinted a some big news for DtD on the horizon but left it at that, just a hint at a rumor and a tease to wait for more info. But he generally doesn't push the outlandish rumors out, so I'll be listening in to the next couple of podcast to see if anything is revealed. But I would not be surprised if they are having a hard time attracting third parties in this economy and I also would not be surprised if they move away from generic clubs and more towards an AC type themed experience or two.

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

I'd love to see a new Cirque take over the better part of PI as I think this type of entertainment is a perfect match for wdw as a "fun expereince for all ages". A replica of "O" would be great or even a new show. A murder mystery type show could also be entertaining (although I'm not sure wdw would promote such a thing or they would have probably already done so) or maybe even a broadway type show such as the Lion King could also do well there. Time will tell...

 

[WolfpackFan]

my friend was just at WDW and they heard theres a chance that the bars might come back?

I sure hope not.

 

[ADP]

I'm sure whatever they decide to do it will be kept a secret. They'll probably put up walls around the construction site and we'll be left guessing what it is.

 

[dallastxcpa]

I could care less about true bars being brought back, but I would love to see more theme restaurants. Bring back the Adventurers Club, have a mystery dinner (the case of the missing mouse), bring back comedy warehouse, and what about a magic show.

 

[Chuck S]

Remember that David Copperfield was supposed to open a $30 million Copperfield Magic Underground restaurant at the Studios in 1998, but the deal fell through.

Attracting private and unique businesses to invest in WDW locations in the current economy is going to be tough, if not impossible. While PI needed a make-over, the timing just wasn't in Disney's favor. I think Disney will need to be the majority investor in new venues at PI for a few years.

 

[ssawka]

I'd love to see a new Cirque take over the better part of PI as I think this type of entertainment is a perfect match for wdw as a "fun expereince for all ages". A replica of "O" would be great or even a new show. A murder mystery type show could also be entertaining (although I'm not sure wdw would promote such a thing or they would have probably already done so) or maybe even a broadway type show such as the Lion King could also do well there. Time will tell...

I could really see Disney building a theater in the area and putting on their Broadway shows. I don't think it would be for a while since the cost of putting on the shows would be enormous. The big question is would people be willing to spend $75-$100 a ticket for another Disney show after seeing Disney shows all day?

 

[d-r]

I walked through there last week and the adventurers club still looked "intact" from the outside, but I don't know if it will ever open again. I am pretty sure that if some business wanted to pay disney rent money for that water front location it would be gone. JMHO.

 

[Chuck S]

Seeing as this discussion is really turning to PI's fate, rather than how/if it will impact DVC, I'm going to move this over to the Rumors & News forum.

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

I could really see Disney building a theater in the area and putting on their Broadway shows. I don't think it would be for a while since the cost of putting on the shows would be enormous. The big question is would people be willing to spend $75-$100 a ticket for another Disney show after seeing Disney shows all day?

I think so... And I dont think there could be a more captive audience than wdw guests as we in general love to be entertained in any fashion and if it is disney related thats just gravy on top! Many people won't travel to NY (or a major city when such shows travel) to see such a production but if it is available at DTD, I think many would include it in their itinerary. Plus I think, as is with La Nouba, many locals would go to see the show as well (and probably also have dinner at DTD).

Attracting private and unique businesses to invest in WDW locations in the current economy is going to be tough, if not impossible.

I am not sure I agree as a down ecomony is when things are built as labor and overhead costs are usually cheaper. And knowing that Disney has the top 4 of the 5 amusement park attendance in the world (disneyland being the other) with over 48 million visitors (at the 4 parks) in 2005, and having 32 resorts on property and countless off-site in Orlando (not to mention kissammee and other surrounding areas) and being the number one vacation destination on the planet, I would think it is an ideal location to invest.

 

[zulemara]

Until those clubs are bulldozed, there is always a possibility. But first, I want to clear some things up
1. The clubs WERE profitable! Lansberry said so himself.
2. Regarding attendance, it had fallen because they slowly killed the island piece by piece. They stopped the fireworks, they tore down the stage, they changed the age requirement, and the worst thing they ever did was ungate the island. They did everything possible to sabatoge the island so they could convince the higher ups to close it. When was the last time they had even advertised it? Exactly, I can't remember either. Yet as soon as they announced the closing, attendance shot through the roof. Sure, maybe it's because of the type of announcement, but imagine if they actually put a flier in the paper every now and then, pushed it a little harder at the front desk, or had a TV commercial.
3. For those of you who are not aware, AC, Motion, and BET are all fully operational clubs and could be opened very quickly. They are all available for rentals and I was in Motion myself during gay days. Mannequins and 8-trax(the two most popular clubs) have been gutted and I have a mannequin from Mannequins sitting in my bathroom right now that I bought from property control.
4. They are CLUBS not BARS! A bar is somewhere with no dancing area where people just stand around and talk. A club offers a dancing element and in some cases, a multi million dollar light and sound system.
5. For those who do not like the clubs, fine, don't go to them, but the reality is there ARE people looking for night time entertainment on property and many people specifically want dancing. What are they left with? Atlantic Dance or Jellyrolls(which isn't dancing). You wouldn't believe the number of people who walk through DTD talking about the clubs, some still thinking they will be open at night. I've also had people at Atlantic Dance ask where else they can go because it just doesn't compare to PI...and I tell them to go to citywalk, which is not convenient for most Disney guests.

I can only hope management comes to their senses and reopens a couple of the clubs. Having them sitting there with 0 revenue is not only stupid, but looks awful to people walking through. Of course, those wanting to do the cha cha(motion), the elctric slide(8-trax), YMCA(8-trax) or any other line dance can always join that ridiculous celebration plaza thing they have. Pay no attention to these empty buildings

 

[Scurvy]

Remember that David Copperfield was supposed to open a $30 million Copperfield Magic Underground restaurant at the Studios in 1998, but the deal fell through.

That wasn't actually a problem between Copperfield and Disney, though. The deal fell through because of conflicts between the investors in the restaurant and David - they wanted to cut the budget and cut corners, and he wasn't willing to have his name on it if they did that. They felt it wouldn't succeed without his name attached and so scrapped the concept. A Magic Underground was already being built in New York and it was sold and turned into something else. Disney really didn't have much to do with any of it except for being the location of the MGM restaurant, and they didn't have any control over it once the deal between David and the investors fell apart.

 

[Chuck S]

That wasn't actually a problem between Copperfield and Disney, though. The deal fell through because of conflicts between the investors in the restaurant and David - they wanted to cut the budget and cut corners, and he wasn't willing to have his name on it if they did that. They felt it wouldn't succeed without his name attached and so scrapped the concept. A Magic Underground was already being built in New York and it was sold and turned into something else. Disney really didn't have much to do with any of it except for being the location of the MGM restaurant, and they didn't have any control over it once the deal between David and the investors fell apart.

Yes, but again, the point is finding investors/chains with enough open capital and credit line to open/sponsor a location on Disney property in this economy is going to be extremely difficult, thus I wouldn't expect the PI area to attract any new non-Disney funded venue of any format, whether it was a new PI club, or a family style restaurant. I expect that the PI area will be empty for at least a couple of years, and they've got the huge retail space vacated by Virgin Megastore to do fill, too.

 

[anthony2k7]

It is possible that the Adventurer's club could be rehabbed and updated to present 2 or 3 dinner shows per night of some type. But I agree with disneynutz, it is highly unlikely that the clubs, as we knew them, will simply reopen without modifications. The Adventurer's Club show elements are in need of a rehab anyway, though the colors and fabrics were subdued to fit the theme, even those were showing obvious wear and tear. I'm sure SSR owners who purchased specifically for the convenience of being near the clubs are disappointed, but no one could expect the area to remain untouched forever...things are always changing at Disney..and if overall the club/PI area was not profitable, even if some individual clubs were making $$$, it makes little sense not to make some changes...but again, I think the Adv Club theme would lend itself well to a dinner show, maybe a haunted house/mystery dinner show incorporating many of the existing club show elements.

interesting you mention DTDs impact on SSR.

have disney always had problems filling SSR and OKW or is it a recent issue?

For them to be pricing both of those with (full) free dining for less than the mods with upgraded (to full) dining seemed to me to show they're struggling?
Also SSR and OKW were available for us Disney UK customers to book on the UK site where as all other DVC resorts arent.

 

[Chuck S]

interesting you mention DTDs impact on SSR.

have disney always had problems filling SSR and OKW or is it a recent issue?

For them to be pricing both of those with (full) free dining for less than the mods with upgraded (to full) dining seemed to me to show they're struggling?
Also SSR and OKW were available for us Disney UK customers to book on the UK site where as all other DVC resorts arent.

SSR and OKW are the largest resorts in the DVC Resort system, they have historically always been the last resorts to fill up. When a DVC member trades out f the DVC system, DVC has to turn a room over to Disney for cash reservations to recoup the cost of that trade. If a lot of members have traded out, then more cash rooms need to be filled, even at a discounted rate. Plus, SSR and OKW have unsold points, either point acquired as the result of the developer exercising their Right of First Refusal in a resale, members that may have defaulted on payments due to the economy, or SSRs recent addition of the Treehouse Villas that are not yet fully sold. Those unsold points represent rooms that can be turned over for cash reservations, as well.

I actually mentioned SSR previously in this thread because the thread was originally posted on the DVC forums before I moved it here.