Dow: 6726

[DisneyMomOK]

And that's what's so pathetic about the resident righties pointing to the plunging Dow and wagging the finger at Obama. If he came out and said, "Sorry Wall Street, we're going to let you fail" yesterday, the market would be at about 3500 right now. It seems they want stock gains and no governmental intervention at the same time. That's simply living a pipe dream.

Who knows what next month holds for us all? If it hits 5000 in a short period of time, approximately half of what it was when he was inaugurated, think that will be an indicator that Geithner and the rest of crew fail to inspire?

 

[Amii]

Is your argument really that because individuals are not sufficiently helping each other out that the government should not do it? It seems like that should be the argument for the government helping out.

I don't think the government should help out either way. I hear a lot of people saying the government needs to bail people out. I don't hear a whole lot about those people helping to pay their neighbor's mortgage. People (on the whole) don't want to dig in their own pockets. They want the government to do it. That is digging into the pockets of the next generation. How about we bail out the next generation by not having bail outs?

 

[wvjules]

I don't think the government should help out either way. I hear a lot of people saying the government needs to bail people out. I don't hear a whole lot about those people helping to pay their neighbor's mortgage. People (on the whole) don't want to dig in their own pockets. They want the government to do it. That is digging into the pockets of the next generation. How about we bail out the next generation by not having bail outs?

A-freakin-men!

 

[minnie61650]

Actually I thought that was a "settled" issue so I didn't mention it.! I should have picked up on it however, because it is rare to hear a democrat admit that Fannie and Freddie were the problem.

If you are referring to me I not a democrat.
I am an Indepentant.
During the 40 years I have been voting I have voted for Republicans, Democrates, Ralph Nader and Ross Perot.

As for Fannie & Freddie you said many times you thought that they caused this mess and I have said I thought JP Morgan and the credit Default Swaps started this recession.

I thought you were the one who gave Frannie & Freddie the "get out of jail free card."

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ntsammy5]

I want to point out that Fannie and Freddie were no where near the entire problem - all they did is package th eloans and sell them on the secondary market - if the rating agencies and investment bankers had been doing their jobs the MBOs would never have been sold and the market would have dried up quickly for new mortgages - besides that there were tons of other structural problems that iunvolved the Fed and Regulatory agencies as well as the incredible greed of the investment banks and insurance companies like AIG - Creidt Default Swaps were the primary reason this got to be as large as it was.

 

[HakunaMatata2]

Who gave a flip when the textile industry in this country was being decimated? Oh yeah, that was just a bunch of poor hicks in the South, so no one cared that we lost an entire industry. Unfortunately, we have forgotten that a country must have a diverse manufacturing base to support a large middle class. It is apparent the current administration is even more oblivious to that fact than the last.

The demise of the textile industry affected many of the north east Dem states, also. It is impossible to drive through NE without seeing crumbling cities and abandoned factories in so many places where the major industry was textiles.

 

[DisneyMomOK]

The demise of the textile industry affected many of the north east Dem states, also. It is impossible to drive through NE without seeing crumbling cities and abandoned factories in so many places where the major industry was textiles.

I agree, but, IIRC, it started in the South. I cannot believe how many industries we have lost; it is staggering.

 

[minnie61650]

Who gave a flip when the textile industry in this country was being decimated? Oh yeah, that was just a bunch of poor hicks in the South, so no one cared that we lost an entire industry. Unfortunately, we have forgotten that a country must have a diverse manufacturing base to support a large middle class. It is apparent the current administration is even more oblivious to that fact than the last.

I did! I wrote my congressmen about my concerns.
I was very worried.
It is very sad to see to many jobs being outsourced.

I respectfully disagree with your statement that the current administration is even more oblivious to that fact than the last.

I feel that both President Bush and President Obama understand that we need a manufacturing base and that is why when congress failed to give the Detroit 3 a bridge loan President Bush followed through and gave them a loan to get them through a few months until
President Obama would be president.

President Obama has a strong commitment to preserving the companies that have defined Michigan's economy and identity for a century.

Here is a quote from Feb.25,2009:

"We are committed to the goal of a re-tooled, re-imagined auto industry that can compete and win," he said. "Millions of jobs depend on it."
------------------

Just my 2 cents.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

And that's what's so pathetic about the resident righties pointing to the plunging Dow and wagging the finger at Obama. If he came out and said, "Sorry Wall Street, we're going to let you fail" yesterday, the market would be at about 3500 right now. It seems they want stock gains and no governmental intervention at the same time. That's simply living a pipe dream.

Actually, Bush started this. I am not one of those putting this at Obama's feet. But he does not have to continue with this horrible policy.

Had the banks been allowed to fail, this would all be settling out now. Yes, the DOW might have hit 7000 a few months ago, and it might even be lower now, but we would be healing...

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...Credit Default Swaps were the primary reason this got to be as large as it was.

Yep...

 

[minnie61650]

. I don't hear a whole lot about those people helping to pay their neighbor's mortgage.

That is because when that happens it is usually kept quiet.
My sister gave over $10,000 to a member of her chuch to keep that member's home from being forclosed. She asked
the member to keep it quiet because as much as my sister would love to be able to she just does not have enough money to help everyone save their home.

We (my sister, my DH and I) know there are a lot of needy people out there and we cannot help them all but we give to cherities to help many and then we try to help the ones we can one person or one family at a time.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I'm not sure, but I think that if the large banks fail, the economy fails. I personally wouldn't mind, but I'm sure a lot of people with children don't want their kids to grow up in a 3rd world America.

 

[PeterPan09]

That is because when that happens it is usually kept quiet.
My sister gave over $10,000 to a member of her chuch to keep that member's home from being forclosed. She asked
the member to keep it quiet because as much as my sister would love to be able to she just does not have enough money to help everyone save their home.

We (my sister, my DH and I) know there are a lot of needy people out there and we cannot help them all but we give to cherities to help many and then we try to help the ones we can one person or one family at a time.

One of my best friends is pretty much paying two mortgages-her's and her sisters. I can't pay another full mortgage on top of my own expenses, but I know my church is helping folks who are having trouble, so my donations probably are in there. Of course, there are only so many charity dollars to go around, and with nearly 5 million people out of work across this country, the people who used to give to charity are now the ones who need it.

 

[AndyLL]

And the only way to do that is to let them fail. Giving these companies money is beyond foolish. Let the bad companies and bad leaders fail. Let the next generation buy up their assets and take over.

Statements like these show how uneducated americans are in how financial companies work.

Lets say we let AIG fail

1) The Government is immediately out 200 Billion in loans.

2) 2 1/2 Billion shares just go away. Never to come back. That forces immediate writedowns on all funds and companies that hold their stock.

3) AIG held over 400 Billion in credit default swaps. If they go under all their counterparties would immediately take that loss. Since banks already are overleveraged many of them will start failing. The credit freeze we saw with lehman will be a piker compared to that.

4) Every state (country) which has AIG insurance companies will immediately have to take over those companies costing the states billions. Those insurance companies will eventually be basically given away.

and finally...

5) The Government has to take AIG into receivership... costing additional billions.

The goal should be to get through the crises without making it worst then go back and identify why it happened and what steps need to be taken to prevent it in the future.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Statements like these show how uneducated americans are in how financial companies work...

I am a director working for a huge financial corporation. Want to try again?

Again, if you disagree with a liberal, you are either stupid or uneducated...

 

[mickeysgal]

What I worry about are those we're currently not hearing about now. Those middle of the road families; you, me, the neighbors, that are struggling to keep our heads above water, keep their jobs, pay their bills. People thought they were doing the right thing all their life by saving. Now it's slipping swiftly away. When this financial rip tide pulls them under one by one, who is going to help them when their savings is no longer there? You can't label them irresponsible - they were doing everything right. You can't help working for an industry that is disintegrating before your very eyes (like manufacturing). In the event of a job loss, health issue, etc. their savings isn't there. It's gone. Sure you should have a year's salary tucked away not in the market, but is one year enough under these extrodinary circumstances? I don't think so. How many of us have years worth of salary put aside outside the stock market? Not many, I imagine.

Will we all become a nation of welfare recipients? It's scary, and I think we're headed for a very large portion of this nation to become totally dependent on the government for their very survival.

 

[AndyLL]

I am a director working for a huge financial corporation. Want to try again?

Which of my points was wrong?

Directors of huge financial corporations are what got companies like AIG in trouble... I wouldn't be to proud of that.

Again, if you disagree with a liberal, you are either stupid or uneducated...

Again... a republican posts a Rush talking point and then can't defend it because they have no clue what it means?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Which of my points was wrong?

Directors of huge financial corporations are what got companies like AIG in trouble... I wouldn't be to proud of that.

LOL - Not sure why you want to get personal but envy will get you nowhere in life. You could try to get a job with one of these companies that you hate and make some real money. Got any skills?

Again... a republican posts a Rush talking point and then can't defend it because they have no clue what it means?

I am not a Republican and I do not listen to that blow hard. My fiscal views have not changed in 20+ years. But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant - again...

 

[minnie61650]

I am a director working for a huge financial corporation. Want to try again?

Since you are a director of a financial corporation and you imply we should let AGI fail I am very interested in why you think that AndyLL
theoris about letting AIG fail are not pretty much on target.

Please explain.

I am interested in why someone who is a director of a HUGE financial institution would want to see the financial
institutions fail.

Your thoughts please.

 

[wall*e2008]

Since you are a director of a financial corporation and you imply we should let AGI fail I am very interested in why you think that AndyLL
theoris about letting AIG fail are not pretty much on target.

Please explain.

I am interested in why someone who is a director of a HUGE financial institution would want to see the financial
institutions fail.

Your thoughts please.

I am not a director of a financial corportation. I was watching talking heads show yesterday and QIG was the subject. They basically said exactly what AndyLL said. AndyLL did miss one point and that is the US cannot aquire more than a certain % (IIRC it was 80%) of AIG or the burdon shifts to the US taxpayers and then others can call in their stuff and we have to write a check.