Don't make my mistake!

[Lassie Lynne]

I have found the BIG problem these days is not in the price of tickets, but in analyzing different prices when you add fees. I just booked with Southwest for our trip in April, the flights each way were higher than another carrier....BUT....when you add in that each checked bag would have been X amount (and who can go a week to WDW with only a carry-on??) the other carrier was more expensive and then if for some reason we are forced to change, then there are those nasty change fees. Not as easy as it once was that is for sure!

 

[Tinkerbellie16]

It is so important to look at the total monetary picture for a vacation. Many airlines have steep change fees and for March (spring break time) the price of tickets go up and up and up so you have to pay the increase in the price + the change fee.

I'm sorry you can't enjoy 2 more days but you can chalk it up to experience AND know that you helped the rest of us with your post And yes, I am going to book with Southwest (for airline tix, not necessarily for my vacation package).

Thank you!

 

[baketank]

Something like this has happened to me before and I think I have a solution that would cost less than $1,000. Keep your flights as you have them and just look to buy 4 new one way fares home for your new departure day. Depending on where you are coming from, you might be able to find a $100 each way flight for a total of $400 rather than the $1,000. Then you will technically have one flight down and two flights home. You get your 2 extra days for less than $1,000 and even have flexibility with 2 flights home if you decide your sick of Disney after 5 days, haha, just kidding ... not possible. Hope this might help.

For instance, I see Dallas in your profile, so to fly out of Florida on March 20th from Daytona Beach, FL aiport (DAB) (this aiport is an hour and a half, hour and fifteen minutes from Orlando Airport (MCO) on Travelocity's website to Dallas/Ft Worth Airport is only $96 woth taxes and fees per person.

12:05pm (Depart Daytona Beach, FL) to 6:03pm (Arrive Dallas/Ft Worth, TX) - 1 Stop - on Delta Airlines

Don't know if thats close by to you, but worth a shot.

 

[figmentgirl]

AA is not being rude.

In exchange for getting a substantial discount on your ticket over the regular fare, you agreed to pay a $150 change fee if your plans change. It's that simple.

Sorry for sounding like a jerk, but as somebody who has worked on the finance side of airlines, that's how things work. If people could just book tickets and cancel them free of charge, there would be no such thing as $99 one-way fares.

Southwest has a totally different business model than the other carriers which is friendlier for refunds, but in exchange it doesn't reward frequent flyers as well as American Airlines.

$150 is the industry standard change fee used by the major carriers, including United, Delta, US Airways and Continental.

I don't you're being a jerk, but I did not get the tickets at a discounted rate. I bought them at $230 each on the phone with AA and used an expedia credit, an AA voucher and cash to pay for it. They already have over $1000 of my money.

 

[figmentgirl]

I'm sorry this happened and you had to pay the fee, but the airline did nothing wrong.

Thanks but I never said the airline did anything wrong. I did say they were very rude, and they were. But my OP was just venting sadness.

 

[kristennn]

Is the new promo where you get a gift card applicable for your dates?

 

[figmentgirl]

Something like this has happened to me before and I think I have a solution that would cost less than $1,000. Keep your flights as you have them and just look to buy 4 new one way fares home for your new departure day. Depending on where you are coming from, you might be able to find a $100 each way flight for a total of $400 rather than the $1,000. Then you will technically have one flight down and two flights home. You get your 2 extra days for less than $1,000 and even have flexibility with 2 flights home if you decide your sick of Disney after 5 days, haha, just kidding ... not possible. Hope this might help.

For instance, I see Dallas in your profile, so to fly out of Florida on March 20th from Daytona Beach, FL aiport (DAB) (this aiport is an hour and a half, hour and fifteen minutes from Orlando Airport (MCO) on Travelocity's website to Dallas/Ft Worth Airport is only $96 woth taxes and fees per person.

12:05pm (Depart Daytona Beach, FL) to 6:03pm (Arrive Dallas/Ft Worth, TX) - 1 Stop - on Delta Airlines

Don't know if thats close by to you, but worth a shot.

Thanks! this is a good idea. My only problem would be that the boys and myself wouldn't get any break between Disney and school, and I know that is an important part of having time off. We all need a vacation after our vacation right?
I will consider this one...

THANKS FOR FEELING MY PAIN EVERYONE

 

[MAH4546]

I don't you're being a jerk, but I did not get the tickets at a discounted rate. I bought them at $230 each on the phone with AA and used an expedia credit, an AA voucher and cash to pay for it. They already have over $1000 of my money.

If the ticket you purchased is not booked in the "Y" or "B" fare buckets, it is discounted. I am assuming you have a Q, O or N fare, which is a "Super Saver" ticket, which is deeply discounted from its original price.

Currently on Dallas-Orlando, AA's discounted rate is $107 each way (which seems to be what you paid, $214 round-trip plus $15 phone booking fee) and the full-fare is $449 each way (while automatic upgrade is $481). You received a $342 discount to forfeit your right to change with no penalty (the $449 ticket also includes free checked-in bags, priority security lines, priority boarding, etc.).

 

[tartemis]

American Airlines does NOT have wonderful frequent flier rewards. My husband had to make 14 trips to Guatemala before he finally got enough points to get a free flight on a decent schedule. The only flights they have for FF are a 2 day itenerary unless you accumulate massive mileage. We fly Southwest for everything domestically now.
Beth

Hmm. We have never had this issue and we ONLY fly AA. In fact, I have used AA frequent flier miles for every single one of my vacations for the past 3 years with no problems.

 

[MAH4546]

American Airlines does NOT have wonderful frequent flier rewards. My husband had to make 14 trips to Guatemala before he finally got enough points to get a free flight on a decent schedule. The only flights they have for FF are a 2 day itenerary unless you accumulate massive mileage. We fly Southwest for everything domestically now.
Beth

That's simply false.

With good planning, you can get what you need. AA is known in the industry for having the best availability and easiest to redeem. I was able to get a 40,000 mile round-trip award ticket to Milan on 6 weeks notice last year.

 

[nashville_minnie]

OP- i commiserate with your disappointment! i would be very sad to feel like i had to miss out on 2 free nights because of the airline's excessive charges.

i can certainly understand why the airline would charge to cancel a flight, but why is it that big of a deal to them if you change your dates? Wouldn't a $15 or $20 fee be enough to cover the extra customer service labor? How on earth do they arrive at $150?

the lesson i learned from your story is never to book my flights that far in advance. it is almost a blessing in disguise that SW only opens their booking windows out in small time increments.

good luck with solving your vacation dilemma!

 

[MAH4546]

i can certainly understand why the airline would charge to cancel a flight, but why is it that big of a deal to them if you change your dates? Wouldn't a $15 or $20 fee be enough to cover the extra customer service labor? How on earth do they arrive at $150?

They arrive at $150 because they already sold a deeply discounted ticket. The airline is making $0 profit on the OP's $230 ticket.

If everybody was allowed to book tickets and then cancel and change for a "nominal fee," there would be no such thing as $107 tickets. Tickets would be the $350 they should be.

In exchange for an oever $300 discount from the full fare, the passenger is saying "yes, I promise I will be on that flight or you can charge me a high change fee for breaking that promise." When somebody buys a $107 ticket, that takes away the potential for selling that ticket for $449.

The $150 does not cover labor, it covers lost opportunity cost.

Imagine if you were selling your house valued at $200,000. A buyer comes along and says, "I will pay you $150,000 for the house, in cash, in four months." You agree. Then, one month before you were supposed to sell your house to that guy, he finds another house for $140,000 and you charge him the $20 in labor for canceling the contract. In the meantime, you took that house off the market and lost the opportunity to sell it for three moths.

Sound's fair to me.

 

[DisneyFanSince71]

They arrive at $150 because they already sold a deeply discounted ticket. The airline is making $0 profit on the OP's $230 ticket.

If everybody was allowed to book tickets and then cancel and change for a "nominal fee," there would be no such thing as $107 tickets. Tickets would be the $350 they should be.

In exchange for an oever $300 discount from the full fare, the passenger is saying "yes, I promise I will be on that flight or you can charge me a high change fee for breaking that promise." When somebody buys a $107 ticket, that takes away the potential for selling that ticket for $449.

The $150 does not cover labor, it covers lost opportunity cost.

Imagine if you were selling your house valued at $200,000. A buyer comes along and says, "I will pay you $150,000 for the house, in cash, in four months." You agree. Then, one month before you were supposed to sell your house to that guy, he finds another house for $140,000 and you charge him the $20 in labor for canceling the contract. In the meantime, you took that house off the market and lost the opportunity to sell it for three moths.

Sound's fair to me.

SW does sell tickets for $100 one way (or less) to Orlando from all over the country, doesn't charge for bags, doesn't arbitrarily charge a change fee, have the highest customer rating in the industry and MAKES MONEY DOING IT. You want us to believe that $449 is a reasonable price for a round trip ticket. The market place would disagree with you.

Your analogy is flawed. You speak of the lost opportunity cost because a house is off the market for a month and you would like us to believe that AA suffers similar damage. LOL. There are still plenty of seats still available between DAL and MCO so the only "damage" is the time to rebook. AA is just burning customer goodwill by over charging for courtesy. SW will benefit in the long run for this "penny-wise, pound-foolish" business philosophy.

BTW, my sister works for AA.

 

[kaytieeldr]

i can certainly understand why the airline would charge to cancel a flight, but why is it that big of a deal to them if you change your dates? Wouldn't a $15 or $20 fee be enough to cover the extra customer service labor? How on earth do they arrive at $150?

Because the airline needs to cancel the OP's original tickets - therefore the $150 per ticket cancellation fee. Then they need to issue new tickets to reflect the OP's change in plans. Sure, this could have been avoided by purchasing refundable tickets - but those cost three-four times as much.

 

[MAH4546]

SW does sell tickets for $100 one way (or less) to Orlando from all over the country, doesn't charge for bags, doesn't arbitrarily charge a change fee, have the highest customer rating in the industry and MAKES MONEY DOING IT. You want us to believe that $449 is a reasonable price for a round trip ticket. The market place would disagree with you.

Southwest has an entirely different cost structure. It does not offer a global, worldwide network. It does not fly long-haul. It does not have multiple classes of service, It does not belong to a global alliance. It does not have multiple fleet types. A Southwest ticket will not be honored free-of-charge by another airline if a flight is canceled. The list goes on and on and on.

$449 is the price one-way. Full fare round-trip is $898. Whether or not that is reasonable depends on the person. People pay it, though, that's for sure. I rarely pay the discount fare myself, I often have no choice but to pay the refundable or instant-upgrade fare.

The only thing that is unfair is the unreasonable expectations of consumers. That is unfair to the airlines.

Southwest is also coming into major trouble. Their streak of profits ended last year and they are desperately trying to find new revenue sources because their model is no longer working. They tried to take-over Frontier Airlines essentially because it would eliminate a competitor.

And newsflash: Southwest is rarely the lowest fare on routes they fly. It does a damn good job convincing the public it is, but it isn't. A look at MIDT fare data for the first quarter of 2009 shows that Southwest is the not the low-fare carrier in over half the markets they fly. Check out the low-fare carrier on these routes from Orlando, all on which Southwest competes:

Albany: Continental
Austin: JetBlue
Baltimore: AirTran
Birmingham: Southwest
Buffalo: AirTran
Chicago: AirTran
Cleveland: Southwest
Dallas: American
Fort Lauderdale/Miami: American
Los Angeles: Delta
Phoenix: US Airways
Washington: US Airways

If you want to buy into the Southwest marketing gimmicks that they have the lowest fare, be my guest. They made money for 30 years convincing people not to bother checking the competition.

Southwest has excellent RASM and decent CASM figures, better than some of the majors, but they have simplicity in their business structure that other airlines don't have, and based on their vast route networks, other airlines can't have. Up until now, Southwest could afford to offer no change fees. Though the fuel hedging is gone and they are losing major revenue not charging for suitcase. They are desperately seeking new revenue streams such as the new "early boarding" and "business select" gimmicks, and its not working wonders.

As a frequent flyer myself, flying over 75,000 miles a year, the Southwest business model does not work for me as a customer. I see how it works for a leisure traveler, though. Southwest is far more friendly to the occasional leisure flyer, but American Airlines and network carriers are far more friendly to the frequent flyer.

And my analogy is not flawed.

Imagine if AA sold 100 tickets for $200 each and then seven days before the flight, all 100 people canceled for a $20 change fee. That is 100 seats and $18,000 down the drain. Good luck to AA filling those 100 seats in seven days. You just can't seem to get over the whole "big companies are evil" BS. They aren't evil. Flying is too cheap as is, people take it for granted. Airlines are largely to blame for putting themselves in this mess with fare wars that started in the late 1990s as the internet became popular and have created unrealistic consumer expectations as to how cheap airline fares should be. And until consumers wake up, airlines are just going to pile on the charges, and rightfully so. And Southwest is joining the game. They already have, just not with baggage and change fees yet.

 

[DisneyFanSince71]

Southwest has an entirely different cost structure. It does not offer a global, worldwide network. It does not fly long-haul. It does not have multiple classes of service, It does not belong to a global alliance. It does not have multiple fleet types. A Southwest ticket will not be honored free-of-charge by another airline if a flight is canceled. The list goes on and on and on.

$449 is the price one-way. Full fare round-trip is $898. Whether or not that is reasonable depends on the person. People pay it, though, that's for sure. I rarely pay the discount fare myself, I often have no choice but to pay the refundable or instant-upgrade fare.

The only thing that is unfair is the unreasonable expectations of consumers. That is unfair to the airlines.

Southwest is also coming into major trouble. Their streak of profits ended last year and they are desperately trying to find new revenue sources because their model is no longer working. They tried to take-over Frontier Airlines essentially because it would eliminate a competitor.

And newsflash: Southwest is rarely the lowest fare on routes they fly. It does a damn good job convincing the public it is, but it isn't. A look at MIDT fare data for the first quarter of 2009 shows that Southwest is the not the low-fare carrier in over half the markets they fly. Check out the low-fare carrier on these routes from Orlando, all on which Southwest competes:

Albany: Continental
Austin: JetBlue
Baltimore: AirTran
Birmingham: Southwest
Buffalo: AirTran
Chicago: AirTran
Cleveland: Southwest
Dallas: American
Fort Lauderdale/Miami: American
Los Angeles: Delta
Phoenix: US Airways
Washington: US Airways

If you want to buy into the Southwest marketing gimmicks that they have the lowest fare, be my guest. They made money for 30 years convincing people not to bother checking the competition.

Southwest has excellent RASM and decent CASM figures, better than some of the majors, but they have simplicity in their business structure that other airlines don't have, and based on their vast route networks, other airlines can't have. Up until now, Southwest could afford to offer no change fees. Though the fuel hedging is gone and they are losing major revenue not charging for suitcase. They are desperately seeking new revenue streams such as the new "early boarding" and "business select" gimmicks, and its not working wonders.

As a frequent flyer myself, flying over 75,000 miles a year, the Southwest business model does not work for me as a customer. I see how it works for a leisure traveler, though. Southwest is far more friendly to the occasional leisure flyer, but American Airlines and network carriers are far more friendly to the frequent flyer.

And my analogy is not flawed.

Imagine if AA sold 100 tickets for $200 each and then seven days before the flight, all 100 people canceled for a $20 change fee. That is 100 seats and $18,000 down the drain. Good luck to AA filling those 100 seats in seven days. You just can't seem to get over the whole "big companies are evil" BS. They aren't evil. Flying is too cheap as is, people take it for granted. Airlines are largely to blame for putting themselves in this mess with fare wars that started in the late 1990s as the internet became popular and have created unrealistic consumer expectations as to how cheap airline fares should be. And until consumers wake up, airlines are just going to pile on the charges, and rightfully so. And Southwest is joining the game. They already have, just not with baggage and change fees yet.

AA has a much higher cost structure. It doesn't matter if they have a global network if all I want to go from Dallas to Orlando. As you have the MIDT data, what is the average cost of a one-way ticket from Dallas to Orlando. I bet its not close to $449.

I presume that you are right that the respective airlines are the cheapest carriers from their respective cities to Orlando. But the point you want to neglect that those airlines would not be flying those low fares if SW were not competing. And of course the baggage, change, drink fees etc. are not included in the price reported to the government. So from a passenger's perspective (including the OP) SW is the cheapest!! Case in point BEFORE SW flew Hartford to Chicago the average fare was $450 one-way after SW flew the route the average price dropped to $200. So SW sets the price in many markets.

SW is not losing billions, but I agree that their model is reaching its limits. Their stock price has been flat for the past 10 years. For employees who came to work in the past decade they are not close to being SW millionaires.

You again reach for an analogy that is way beyond the realm as cited by the OP. She just wanted to change the date, not rerelease any inventory into the market and do it 2 months in advance You come back and say "what happens if 100 people want to cancel a ticket 7 days in advance".

AA has the right to jerk around its customers. Customers have the right to bad mouth the airline and refuse to fly them in the future.

 

[SurfinTX]

Imagine if AA sold 100 tickets for $200 each and then seven days before the flight, all 100 people canceled for a $20 change fee. That is 100 seats and $18,000 down the drain. Good luck to AA filling those 100 seats in seven days. You just can't seem to get over the whole "big companies are evil" BS. They aren't evil. Flying is too cheap as is, people take it for granted. Airlines are largely to blame for putting themselves in this mess with fare wars that started in the late 1990s as the internet became popular and have created unrealistic consumer expectations as to how cheap airline fares should be. And until consumers wake up, airlines are just going to pile on the charges, and rightfully so. And Southwest is joining the game. They already have, just not with baggage and change fees yet.

I think most people are talking about the size of the change fees. Not the difference in the prices of tickets. It's still a few months out for the OPs trip and prices of the tickets themselves have not moved up much if at all. The Airlines, specificaly AA, asking for $150 per ticket when it still has over 2 months to resell them is not going to be very hard.

I have avoided flying as much as possible since all of the new restrictions have come in place for carry-ons. Since the checked baggage fees started I have not flown once. This is from a person who flew at least 20 segments a year from 1988-2000.

I agree that the airline should charge the difference between the tickets wheteher they go up or down but to ask someone to also pay 70% more in this case is just highway robbery.

 

[kaytieeldr]

AA is not being rude.

In exchange for getting a substantial discount on your ticket over the regular fare, you agreed to pay a $150 change fee if your plans change. It's that simple.

Sorry for sounding like a jerk, but as somebody who has worked on the finance side of airlines, that's how things work. If people could just book tickets and cancel them free of charge, there would be no such thing as $99 one-way fares.

Southwest has a totally different business model than the other carriers which is friendlier for refunds, but in exchange it doesn't reward frequent flyers as well as American Airlines.

$150 is the industry standard change fee used by the major carriers, including United, Delta, US Airways and Continental.

Agreed. The unrestricted (fully refundable in advance) economy fare for a flight leaving DFW at 9:45 AM and one leaving MCO at 7:45 PM on the OP's dates is $878 per person. The restricted (non-refundable) economy fare for the same flights is $260 per person. It only makes sense that the airlines charge to make changes to a nonrefundable ticket.

 

[MAH4546]

AA has a much higher cost structure. It doesn't matter if they have a global network if all I want to go from Dallas to Orlando. As you have the MIDT data, what is the average cost of a one-way ticket from Dallas to Orlando. I bet its not close to $449.

It's not, it is $144.

I presume that you are right that the respective airlines are the cheapest carriers from their respective cities to Orlando. But the point you want to neglect that those airlines would not be flying those low fares if SW were not competing. And of course the baggage, change, drink fees etc. are not included in the price reported to the government. So from a passenger's perspective (including the OP) SW is the cheapest!! Case in point BEFORE SW flew Hartford to Chicago the average fare was $450 one-way after SW flew the route the average price dropped to $200. So SW sets the price in many markets.

I am not neglecting anything. All competition lowers fares. It doesn't have to be Southwest. American has fares as low as $242 between Miami and Madrid right now, and that's because Air Europa is introducing service on the route against American and Iberia. Southwest has nothing to do that.

Southwest doesn't fly New York City-LA, but fares have been at record lows for the past two years because of so many airlines vying for the market.

It doesn't matter where the competition comes from - American, Virgin America, Southwest, Air Europa - two carriers on a route brings fares down quite a bit, and three carriers brings them down drastically.

And when Southwest has no competition on routes - which is rare but exists in some small Texas markets - its fares on that route are typically higher on a per/mile basis than competition routes.

Southwest had to lower fares quite a bit intra-California in the past year and has taken quite a hit because of Virgin America.

You again reach for an analogy that is way beyond the realm as cited by the OP. She just wanted to change the date, not rerelease any inventory into the market and do it 2 months in advance You come back and say "what happens if 100 people want to cancel a ticket 7 days in advance".

The analogy is not beyond anything. Re-releasing inventory one day "X" is re-releasing inventory - it is irrelevant if somebody wants to buy back inventory on a different day, inventory is being freed with a smaller window to fill. If everybody had the right do cheaply release inventory, than airlines would be in even more trouble than they are.

What you fail to realize is that high change fees act as an incentive to plan carefully and keep fares low for all of us on all airlines.

AA has the right to jerk around its customers. Customers have the right to bad mouth the airline and refuse to fly them in the future.

AA isn't jerking anybody around. Customers can bad mouth, but there is no jerking around going on. Rules are rules. Don't book AA (or DL or anybody except WN) if you don't like the fare rules.

 

[kaytieeldr]

As you have the MIDT data, what is the average cost of a one-way ticket from Dallas to Orlando. I bet its not close to $449.

Unrestricted? Or nonrefundable? Because $449 seems reasonable:

Per Orbitz, refundable economy ticket, DFW-MCO round trip:
AirTran $875
AA $929
US $677
Delta $931
Northwest $931
Continental $937
United $1,083
Midwest $1,589
Frontier $2,448

Average refundable fare = $1,300, therefore average one-way refundable fare = $650.

And of course the baggage, change, drink fees etc. are not included in the price reported to the government. So from a passenger's perspective (including the OP) SW is the cheapest!! Case in point BEFORE SW flew Hartford to Chicago the average fare was $450 one-way after SW flew the route the average price dropped to $200. So SW sets the price in many markets.

Case in opposing point. Boston to Orlando.
Southwest $333, Delta $209
Southwest baggage fee $0, Delta baggage fee $15 (only check one bag, no matter what airline)
Southwest soft drink charge $0, Delta soft drink charge $0
Southwest snack charge $0, Delta snack charge $0
Southwest total $333, Delta total $231

AA has the right to jerk around its customers. Customers have the right to bad mouth the airline and refuse to fly them in the future.

Customers also have the responsibility to know the conditions of any purchase they make.