Domestic park attendance down 4% in Q3

[jade1]

Except you give the app/reservation too much credit for ingenuity...

FP was a reservation, just sheer stupidity to have to

1) be in the park (esp everybody in the party) to obtain one

2) Walk all the way to the attraction to get one (for later) IF any are still avail, often for 6 hours from now

3) Turn over an hourglass at 8AM until they are all gone (eliminating late arrivers, arrival day guests and park hoppers).

Has there ever been a more obvious need in technology?

You would have to be in favor of every member of your family one by one getting off the couch and walking over to the tv and manually changing the channel-instead of a remote control.

Better yet, wake everybody up early, get ready, go wait for a bus up to 20 minutes, ride a bus 20 minutes, walk to a park entrance, walk a half mile to a TV and have everyone turn the channel, then head back to watch it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Nah, I'm just continually amused that you have so much to say but ZERO facts, other than the line 'trust me, I know more than you.' Kinda like a used car or timeshare salesperson...

You continue to prove me right with your general lack of knowledge on this one...

Shouting theory from the prairie or something...there's a difference between theory and application. That will be covered in the second half of the semester.

Have you ever worked in a business unit at a company that's a major theme park operator? Honest question...

 

[rteetz]

Let's stop this capacity vs. crowds nonsense. Last weekend I went to a regional amusement "thrill" park and while there was ample capacity, the dozen core thrill rides each had waits of 3 hours or more. Likewise, when the AK first opened, it had plenty of capacity... but very little to do -- and at a price well above that of your local zoo (but I'd bet that most of its visitors during its early years were on Hopper tickets). Crowds are a large determent to many considering a vacation to WDW.

And like or hate FastPass or Magic bands... there's no doubt that on a summer day in 2016 I spend less time waiting in line than on a summer day in 1996, despite a larger number of guests. The daily summer 120-minute waits at the "Mountains" are a thing of the past...



Nah, I'm just continually amused that you have so much to say but ZERO facts, other than the line 'trust me, I know more than you.' Kinda like a used car or timeshare salesperson...

Don't crowds and capacity work hand in hand though?

I love when people bring up AK because I love that park and I feel it has plenty to do. It isn't your typical theme park isn't all about rides. No theme park is all about rides. You want rides? Go to that amusement park. Theme parks have a lot more to offer and AK in my opinion is a full day park and possibly a park I can go to more than one day.

You experience crowds everywhere. You don't like crowds? Don't leave your house. Crowds are at the grocery store, your state fair, your zoo, sporting events, etc. if you go to WDW not expecting crowds then something is wrong. It's going to be crowded that's just a given.

Do you have numbers from 1996? I'd like to compare those wait times to today's. You only get three FPs too so you can have space, splash and big thunder but then what about mine train, Peter pa, or pirates? You're waiting in long lines for those in the summer.

 

[rteetz]

FP was a reservation, just sheer stupidity to have to

1) be in the park (esp everybody in the party) to obtain one

2) Walk all the way to the attraction to get one (for later) IF any are still avail, often for 6 hours from now

3) Turn over an hourglass at 8AM until they are all gone (eliminating late arrivers, arrival day guests and park hoppers).

Has there ever been a more obvious need in technology?

You would have to be in favor of every member of your family one by one getting off the couch and walking over to the tv and manually changing the channel-instead of a remote control.

What if we eliminated FP altogether? I think we might see a decrease in wait times then. Or what if Disney starts charging for FP? Disney is all about making more money these days. Some people new to Disney think you already have to pay for FP.

 

[mshanson3121]

It's still the best experience out there.

Up until this past week, I would have agreed with you. But we just took the children to two smaller, local theme parks, for a tiny fraction of the cost of Disney, and they had more fun there, than they did at Disney.

Here's the thing: to most young kids, a ride is a ride. And most of the rides at Disney are available anywhere. They're just themed better at Disney, and probably have a better paint job. Now, I noticed the difference in the details, theming etc... But the kids didn't at all. Instead, they just said, "Oh look! Splash Mountain!" when we came to the Log Flume ride, and were able to ride it three times in a row on a busy summer day, with only a 5-10 minute wait, instead of a 60 minute wait.

Our son outright said he preferred this trip to Disney, and I can see why: they're smaller so it was less walking/less tiring, there were less crowds and waits were minimal -on a very busy summer afternoon, the longest we waited for a popular ride was 30 minutes. Many times we rode rides repeatedly with minimal wait. We were able to do far more rides at these parks than at Disney. Plus, it's quieter and not as much of a sensory overload as Disney is, lots of shade, picnic and sit down areas. And it's a fraction of the price.

I personally missed the parades/shows and fireworks, they didn't seem to at all. Our daughter did miss the Disney character meet and greets, but otherwise also loved the trip.

So... it's funny. I went into the trip worried that Disney had "ruined" us for all other theme parks, and worried the kids would be bored; instead, we found the opposite: our trip to Disney made us appreciate other theme parks even more, and actually really put it into perspective of value. For us, honestly, we've decided Disney isn't worth the cost (right now). Not while they're in such a state of transition/cut-backs. Not when the kids have as much/more fun at other parks. It kinda made me sad in a way, because I still love Disney and I want to go back, but I really can't justify the cost.

So, we'll wait a couple years until the new stuff is built, until the kids are older and more into the "details", until they're older and better able to handle the crowds and waits of Disney, and can do longer days so we get more value for our money.

 

[jade1]

You expand the parks to spread out the crowds and decrease the lines at existing attractions and such.

Right, and you just said WDW does NOT have a capacity problem.

So why expand?

You also expand when there is a capacity problem. For example the hub expansion was a capacity issue during fireworks but the rest of the park isn't at capacity and if it was you'd see the phased closures.

Exactly-they had a capacity problem and addressed it.

Spreading out crowds can and should decrease wait times. Is it truly working?

See your first quote above.

I apologize then I meant they shouldn't have FP. Sure the merge point is before the load but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect lines. When FP came into play wait times at said attractions went up for standby.

No problem. Agreed.

 

[jade1]

What if we eliminated FP altogether? I think we might see a decrease in wait times then.

Up to them.

Or what if Disney starts charging for FP? Disney is all about making more money these days. Some people new to Disney think you already have to pay for FP.

I wish they would, and use the proceeds for further expansion.

 

[jade1]

Up until this past week, I would have agreed with you. But we just took the children to two smaller, local theme parks, for a tiny fraction of the cost of Disney, and they had more fun there, than they did at Disney.

Here's the thing: to most young kids, a ride is a ride. And most of the rides at Disney are available anywhere. They're just themed better at Disney, and probably have a better paint job. Now, I noticed the difference in the details, theming etc... But the kids didn't at all. Instead, they just said, "Oh look! Splash Mountain!" when we came to the Log Flume ride, and were able to ride it three times in a row on a busy summer day, with only a 5-10 minute wait, instead of a 60 minute wait.

Our son outright said he preferred this trip to Disney, and I can see why: they're smaller so it was less walking/less tiring, there were less crowds and waits were minimal -on a very busy summer afternoon, the longest we waited for a popular ride was 30 minutes. Many times we rode rides repeatedly with minimal wait. We were able to do far more rides at these parks than at Disney. Plus, it's quieter and not as much of a sensory overload as Disney is, lots of shade, picnic and sit down areas. And it's a fraction of the price.

I personally missed the parades/shows and fireworks, they didn't seem to at all. Our daughter did miss the Disney character meet and greets, but otherwise also loved the trip.

So... it's funny. I went into the trip worried that Disney had "ruined" us for all other theme parks, and worried the kids would be bored; instead, we found the opposite: our trip to Disney made us appreciate other theme parks even more, and actually really put it into perspective of value. For us, honestly, we've decided Disney isn't worth the cost (right now). Not while they're in such a state of transition/cut-backs. Not when the kids have as much/more fun at other parks. It kinda made me sad in a way, because I still love Disney and I want to go back, but I really can't justify the cost.

So, we'll wait a couple years until the new stuff is built, until the kids are older and more into the "details", until they're older and better able to handle the crowds and waits of Disney, and can do longer days so we get more value for our money.

In that boat I would never spend a dime at WDW, certainly never admit it anyway.

I would however still rent my DVC points and use the proceeds to visit where I want.

 

[rteetz]

Right, and you just said WDW does NOT have a capacity problem.

So why expand?



Exactly-they had a capacity problem and addressed it.



See your firs quote above.



No problem. Agreed.

Disney isn't really currently expanding much. You could say DHS but in terms of attractions they aren't adding anything because of everything that they closed.

Currently WDW doesn't have a capacity problem but could still add more things to spread out the crowds. Sure rides have over an hour wait but that doesn't mean they have a capacity problem that just means those rides are popular and the people in line couldn't get a FP.

 

[jade1]

Disney isn't really currently expanding much. You could say DHS but in terms of attractions they aren't adding anything because of everything that they closed.

Currently WDW doesn't have a capacity problem but could still add more things to spread out the crowds. Sure rides have over an hour wait but that doesn't mean they have a capacity problem that just means those rides are popular and the people in line couldn't get a FP.

Agreed. The hour wait is ONLY those in SB, not those with FP.

 

[mshanson3121]

In that boat I would never spend a dime at WDW, certainly never admit it anyway.

Yeah, and the fact that these parks are only a 5 hour drive away instead of a 28 hour drive/airplane ride away... Pretty much cinched it for my husband. He's definitely willing to go back, but not until they're older and the other lands are complete (he really wants to see SWL).

 

[Madonna3]

you guys make my head hurt

 

[mcjaco]

Up until this past week, I would have agreed with you. But we just took the children to two smaller, local theme parks, for a tiny fraction of the cost of Disney, and they had more fun there, than they did at Disney.

Here's the thing: to most young kids, a ride is a ride. And most of the rides at Disney are available anywhere. They're just themed better at Disney, and probably have a better paint job. Now, I noticed the difference in the details, theming etc... But the kids didn't at all. Instead, they just said, "Oh look! Splash Mountain!" when we came to the Log Flume ride, and were able to ride it three times in a row on a busy summer day, with only a 5-10 minute wait, instead of a 60 minute wait.

Our son outright said he preferred this trip to Disney, and I can see why: they're smaller so it was less walking/less tiring, there were less crowds and waits were minimal -on a very busy summer afternoon, the longest we waited for a popular ride was 30 minutes. Many times we rode rides repeatedly with minimal wait. We were able to do far more rides at these parks than at Disney. Plus, it's quieter and not as much of a sensory overload as Disney is, lots of shade, picnic and sit down areas. And it's a fraction of the price.

I personally missed the parades/shows and fireworks, they didn't seem to at all. Our daughter did miss the Disney character meet and greets, but otherwise also loved the trip.

So... it's funny. I went into the trip worried that Disney had "ruined" us for all other theme parks, and worried the kids would be bored; instead, we found the opposite: our trip to Disney made us appreciate other theme parks even more, and actually really put it into perspective of value. For us, honestly, we've decided Disney isn't worth the cost (right now). Not while they're in such a state of transition/cut-backs. Not when the kids have as much/more fun at other parks. It kinda made me sad in a way, because I still love Disney and I want to go back, but I really can't justify the cost.

So, we'll wait a couple years until the new stuff is built, until the kids are older and more into the "details", until they're older and better able to handle the crowds and waits of Disney, and can do longer days so we get more value for our money.

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

Majority of People don't make more now than they did 10,20,30 years ago based on purchasing power...

So While crap like great adventure is $69.99...a similar day at magic kingdom can be $125...

And local amusement parks offer bounceback, two day deals, or cheap Annual upgrades...Disney offers nothing of those prior to a significant, 4 day investment in tickets...

...It's possible that things do change...unlikely as it may have looked a few years ago.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

you guys make my head hurt

That's what I was going for...TOUCHDOWN!!!!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah, and the fact that these parks are only a 5 hour drive away instead of a 28 hour drive/airplane ride away... Pretty much cinched it for my husband. He's definitely willing to go back, but not until they're older and the other lands are complete (he really wants to see SWL).

28 hours?!?

Are you coming from Venus?

Tell the plane to land the FIRST time it flys over MCO

 

[Madonna3]

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

I haven't flip flopped. I believe Disney sets the price standard. Let's take Busch Gardens for example. It's $99 to get into that rat hole. I hate that place *(except they have better snack options than Disney. I got fresh cut fruit and was in heaven when I *had* to go there for my son's class trip). There's little incentive to go there over Disney unless you're a Florida resident. If you pay full price to get in then you get to go back all year for free. Then, if you choose just the one day ticket you can get the meals for free. So, it makes these places APPEAR a better value than Disney, but they're not. Disney is still the better bang for your buck.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Jade,
You and I want to wander into parks when we feel
Like it...take it or leave it...

But the majority go in early and stay damn near the whole day...it's limited time and/or dollars...

So the old fastpass system wasn't the major obstacle for them as if it you or I.

The 100% requirement to predecide times now is just as big of a nuisance for many now

 

[Madonna3]

Jade,
You and I want to wander into parks when we feel
Like it...take it or leave it...

But the majority go in early and stay damn near the whole day...it's limited time and/or dollars...

So the old fastpass system wasn't the major obstacle for them as if it you or I.

The 100% requirement to predecide times now is just as big of a nuisance for many now

Including my family who are more spontaneous than MDE allows us to be. Before, we would walk in and do whatever. Now, we pick one thing to do and then see what happens from there, but I still have to figure out what time I can do that ONE thing. It's ridiculous. I'm not waiting on SB for these experiences more than 10 minutes. They've completely ruined anything being spontaneous about a Disney trip. My husband and I have gone to Epcot for the day where we didn't ride ANYTHING and just wandered around. We had a pretty good time too.

 

[jade1]

Jade,
You and I want to wander into parks when we feel
Like it...take it or leave it...

But the majority go in early and stay damn near the whole day...it's limited time and/or dollars...

So the old fastpass system wasn't the major obstacle for them as if it you or I.

The 100% requirement to predecide times now is just as big of a nuisance for many now

Not true at all. The average guest arrives around noon, certainly not RD.

Plus hoppers and arrival days.

However the early group indeed loved FP, can't blame them they obtained 90% of the good ones, at least busier weeks.

But yes we arrive when we want-FP+ in hand.