dog advice, please

[twinmomplus2new]

Well most of you know, I am having a little trouble with my dog.Everyone thinks I need to get rid of her and I just can not do it.
This is what happened tonight... The twins called her downstairs to the playroom where they were playing. I was there folding wash. Well she shook and got hair all over the clean clothing, At which point I said to the kids. This is why she should not be down here. Thats it she has to go back up. I turned around to turn on the dryer. One of the twins grabbed her collar like I do to take her upstairs. Now I saw him have her he was not rough, He took the collar and said, Come on Sophie. The next thing I know he screams she bit me. I almost died. She did not break the skin, there was a white line from pressure of her tooth. And the area was swollen and a little red. he did say it hurt and he was scared. I do not know what to do. Part of me is saying, well she didn't really bite him just mouthed him. then the other part of me is saying. She NEVER should have even done that. Now I am nervous to leave them in the room together. I just am at a loss. And am afraid my emotions are clouding my judgement here.

 

[SandraM]

Don't know the history of your dog, but at the very least I would suggest you keep the dog away from any kids and get professional dog training.
As a dog lover, I wish you the best, but we all know that our kids are more important. Don't take any chances.

 

[curlyjbs]

I LOVE dogs!!! just had to put one to sleep this past christmas/new year. really miss him.................anyway....

A dog is an animal. No matter how cute, gentle or sweet you or anyone else thinks they are they're still UNPREDICTABLE. ( Even the best trained dogs ) Children are also unpredictabe. Young children, especially toddlers make me the most nervous. They love to pull, poke, squeeze.............unfortunetely their faces are eye level with most large dogs. I am alway afraid they'll be bitten in the face and possibly scarred for life.


I've had small dogs (yorkies) and big dogs (Nowegian Elkhounds) and if I am not comfortable with the children and dog interaction I lock the dogs in the bedroom. Better to be safe then sorry.

Go with your maternal instincts........Don't make excuses for your animal.........if you are worried keep them APART. I would never presume to tell someone to give up a pet but I will BEG you not to leave your dog alone with your kids!!!

After all, would you leave your kids alone by the pool???


Good Luck ~ I hope it all works out for the best!

Curly

 

[The Mystery Machine]

That is one of the doggie no-no's. You are not supposed to leave a dog alone around small children, for the kid's safety and also the dog's in most cases.

Your dog is asserting herself higher in "the pack" of the kids. A good trainer might be able to help you.

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by The Mystery Machine
That is one of the doggie no-no's. You are not supposed to leave a dog alone around small children, for the kid's safety and also the dog's in most cases.

Your dog is asserting herself higher in "the pack" of the kids. A good trainer might be able to help you.

I agree with this, and would add that the dog was probably frightened being pulled by the collar towards the stairs and only acted out of instinct. If she is a puppy, she needs training and the whole family needs patience!

As far as the dog hair goes, in our house, no outfit is complete without dog hair!

 

[twinmomplus2new]

Well the dogs history is all with me we got her at 8 weeks. Have had her ever since she is a 150 plus pound, ST Bernard. She won't be 6 till October 26th. She has recently become VERY territorial, pacing windows, looking outside. Barking aggressively at other dogs. jumping at the windows. Never aggressive at other people just dogs. ( only about the last 6 mts)
I have spoken to a vet, a ST Bernard rescue person, and a trainer. All said pretty much somtimes Dogs do this around 7 or 8. That they can train her give her prozac, but it will never enable me to trust her with the kids. keeping he rand the kids seperate isn't really an option, she is a house dog. Is always at our feet.
Then after all my prostrations she would never do anything to the kids, She did this tonight.
I know emotionally I probably have to put her to sleep. I just don't have the stomach for it. what if everyones wrong and this is just some kind of phase, I think I will then go to hell in a hand basket for putting down my kids and lets face it. My dog.
They were 3 feet from me when this happended. But I am not always right there. Tonight I was.

 

[Donna]

Put her to sleep? Maybe i missed something, has she actually bit (other than the post above) anyone, your kids, neighbors? I don't know the entire situation here, but putting her to sleep seems WAY too drastic for this situation. Has she had a thorough examination to make sure she's not in any type of pain that is aggravated by touch, is she eating, drinking, normally. Is she getting walked to work out the aggression and restlessness? it sounds like she is only doing what comes naturally with the territorial stuff, like a watchdog would. I would definitely get a second opinion from your original vet; no vet I know would put a dog to sleep under such circumstances. Are you on aol? they have great pet/dog boards and are breed specific. Good Luck but please reconsider putting the poor pup to sleep; you sound like you love her, keep working with her; it will be worth it. When i was about 8 years old, i approached a St. Bernard and it jumped up on me and knocked me over and licked me to death, so much slobber that it stopped my watch from working! This type of dog is over protective; I was scared to death but it was only doing what comes naturally and never really hurt me.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If it were me I couldn't keep her. A St. Bernard that is 150lbs and is aggressive is not the best match for your home.
It is an awful decision to make but your children have to come first.

The dog may have become emotionally disturbed and since she can't talk it is hard to judge things. Only you know what needs to be done.

I know you think you will go to hell (as you said) for putting the dog down (you won't) but ask yourself this...what if she really hurts a kid and then you have to live with that?

It's hard to be a grown up, isn't it?

 

[Serena]

I'd take the dog to the vet to make sure nothing physically is wrong. Make sure to take it to training, for you and him. Do everything you can to cure this problem.

But your children's safety comes first, no matter what.

 

[trishy]

I wouldn't consider putting this dog to sleep, but maybe a better option would be to look for a new home for this dog. There are plenty of people without kids who would love a dog like that. It really sounds as though you already know the answer about having the dog around your kids. We had a situation where we had to get rid of one of our dogs - the difference being he was only 6 months - he bit my dd (6 at the time) in the stomach while she was doing flips from the gym in the backyard. I would seriously consider giving the dog to the rescue organization near you. They can assist in finding a good home. I know it's a heartbreaker. Good luck.

 

[Prince Eric1]

Your dog does not know its place in the pack. Try having the kids feed the dog, etc, to make the dog dependant on the kids as it would be its pack leader, but if that dog bites or growls at the kids it needs to be corrected firmly and immediately in some manor. In nature, the mother or leader would take the dog by the neck and put it on the ground and roll it over (the alpha roll) into a submissive position. It needs to know its place but any correction must be done immediately or the dog will not understand why it is being corrected.

 

[N.Bailey]

I just wanted to add that if your dog is that big and it meant to do damage to your child, it would have broken the skin. That fact alone tells me that this dog did not want to harm your child. Whether I would keep this dog around my child is another question entirely and one I wouldn't want to make a judgment about. I might consider finding him a new home if it was my child too. I don't think he's what I would term dangerous though.

At 6 (I assume this is 6 years?), I don't know what type of training I'd expect either. If you meant months, then training could definitely be a possibility. I still can't say that I'd trust this animal with my child's life.

 

[MeanLaureen]

To me it sounds like your dog wasn't meaning in any way to actually hurt your child, it sounded like it was protecting it's place in the "pecking order" of the "pack" It feels it is above the children.

Putting your dog to sleep for that would be horribly wrong. It was instinct. It would be like putting one of your kids on death row because it beat up your other kid. (I know, it's a stretch)

I don't feel that there is reason for you to completely seperate your children from her either. I feel that there is training needed to do on both sides.

Your dog needs to go for obedience training. Also you need to tell your children about how canines live, how they see their families as packs. Tell your children they should never grab her by the collar and pull her or do any other type of "dominant" action towards her - like taking away a bone/toy in her mouth or reaching into her food dish while she is eating. That goes for any dog that is not taught it's place as a puppy. That is my first priority with a new dog in my house - they learn that I am number one and I can do anything I want to them, whether it be take a treat from their mouth or move them to another area.

When you sign her up for obedience, let you children be there and occasionally handle her (once she is somewhat trained) so that inforces that she is not above them in the order

Good luck, and by all means... do not put her to sleep just for being a dog and acting on instinct. Like someone said, a dog that size could do so much more damage than she did in a blink of an eye. I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt your child.

 

[doxdogy]

If you have your mind set on getting rid of the dog, and you have already spoken with St. Bernard rescue then place the dog with them. The dog needs to be checked by a vet to make sure that there is nothing physically wrong with her. Dogs are pack animals by nature. Just like MeanLaureen stated. They have to know there place in the pack within the human family. If dogs are startled, by nature they will snap. One of my dogs bit me a few years back. But, she bit me in the process of breaking up a fight. The dog that initiated the fight was placed in another home. The dog that bit me is still with us, she has never bitten me again. Most people would have told us to get rid of her (the dog that bit me). As far as dog hair, like someone else said that goes with having a dog. If she is checked out by the vet and found to be healthy, putting her to sleep would IMHO be wrong.

 

[twinmomplus2new]

I certainly wasn't saying I was considering getting rid of my dog because of a few annoyances. This dog is 6 years old. She has been through AKC training and even spent a week in house with a trainer to gauge aggressive behavior. All was well. This new behavior started in October or so.
I have been in touch with ST Bernard rescue and am on a friendly basis with both are local coordinators. The dog is not placeable. Rescue will not take her. Nor do they advocate letting her go to other people. According to rescue. Somtimes ST's typically about 7 or 8. exhibit this type of behavior. They are not sure if it is some kind of early onset dementia you can not seem to control it. She said if there were no kids involved she would try the prozac route however with kids even that will not enable me to trust her ever. This was 2 mts ago obviously I have done nothing. She has been to her vet and checked and is not ill. She did have an ear infection a month ago, but no longer does.
I can not bring her to a no kill shelter as they will call rescue who will know who she is and recommend putting her down. I agree she probably shouldn't be around the kids. But I do not agree she should be put down. So here lies the impass.

 

[Disney Doll]

I would have to agree with theothe rposters. Dogs are not disposable. You don't pout hem to sleep just because they behave in a way that is instinctive to them, but that you do not find acceptable.

They are pack animals, and need to be taught their place in the pack, that is your family. Now obviously, if you didn't do this when the dog was small and managebale, it's going to be harder to do it now, when he is big and heavy. Harder, but not impossible. You need to do it consistently thoguh, and if you're a busy wife and mother, that may be hard.

I don't know how old your kids are, but I would also teach them proper dog handling. Remember, kids are as unpredicatable as dogs sometimes, and a dog that gets startled by a kid grabbing at him is going to defend himself. The dog grabbed your kid's arm...he's big enough where if he wanted to bite your kid, your kid would have been bit. That was a "Stop it, I'm warning you" hold. Your kid was, in plain English, "teeing" the dog off and the dog was letting him know that.

By all means, if you think this dog is too much for you to handle, then place him with a family who is better equipped to care for him than you are. But don't put him to sleep for natural behavior. And wait a while before you get another dog.

When we got our dog, he was somewhat "wild". The family that had him before us had 3 small children, and they were busy and didn't have the time to spend with the dog, properly training him etc. He was a good natured dog, just out of control. We took him to obedianece school, where basically they teach you(the owner) how to train your pet. But it takes time and consistency. The trainer said right off the bat "You get as good of a dog as you deserve. If you spend the time to properly train the dog, you will have a great pet. If you don't, you'll have a terrible pet." Dogs are much like children. Lack of discipline and consistency doesn't do either of them any good.

 

[twinmomplus2new]

First of all I understand I asked for this by posting this.
Number one if the dog was disposable why didn't I get rid of it when rescue told me to in October?
Do you really think I have not properly trained and socialized my dog? She is going to be SIX.
I am not a puppy owner, I am a dog owner. I have been through puppy crazy days and training and all the baloney. I am not giving up based on not having time for my dog. I enjoy my dog, I love my dog. I simply do not trust her.

This is a new developement. She is jumping at the windows destroyed a window sill trying to get at other dogs in the neighborhood. Rescue suggessted blocking the window she seems to be most protective of we did. And she promptly walked over and peed on the rug. After a few days she moved to another window climbing over the couch to get to it. All of this is new. Not her behavior of the last FIVE years. She can no longer be walked as she trys to get at any dog she sees. She is 150+ I am 120 if she wants to get away from me to get something lets face it she can.
However in the house not so.. we have 2 cats, a rabbitt all of whom she cuddles and sleeps with. it is outside animals she is taking issue with. And she never has had this problem before thats my point she has developed this in the last 6 mts.
The dog has food taken away from her by the kids by me, by the cats, they will take a toy of thiers away from her and she is fine gives it right up. All of those things have always been done on the advice of the trainer all along. The one thing I have done that the trainer did not like was her toybox she has alot of toys and they are in a box. The kids are always in and out of it and she is not territorial about her stuff.

 

[yasuern]

There's a book called "How to be your dogs best friend" It was written by Monks from I beleive upper NY state. It has a section on aggression. Also the Guy on PBS Matty Margoulis(sp) he has many books on dog training and videos - I have seen aggression covered in his videos. I would reccommend these.

Also how old are your children? If you have had the dog since it was 8 weeks old and she has never been aggressive towards the kids before I hate to say this but maybe one of the kids is doing something to her - not on purpose - when I was around 5y/o we had a dog named POKEY and in my kid like way I would put my hands on the front of the dogs head in front of her ears and pull back on her head fur because I thought she looked "cute " like this and she would usually get up and walk away or lick my face until I stopped but one day she snapped at me - I never did it again! I wonder if one of your children has/did something similiar near her collar that has her personality changing?

Also dogs need a routine! eat the same time, exercise the same time - for lack of a better term they need to be in the army and you need to be the drill sargent! Tethering(sp) is a way to teach your dog that YOU are the alpha dog - tie/connect her leash to you and her leaving just enough slack as not to choke her - and everything you do she goes w/you - she'll learn to look to you to find out what she should be doing. Even at bedtime(unless you still crate her) tie the leash so she can sit next ot and lay next and stretch out next to your bed. Also Stern voice with commands, reprimands(sp) and a high excited voice with praise - dogs don't know what you are saying they do know how you are saying it.


Good Luck and really investigate all possible reasons for her behavior changes both medical and training.


Sue

 

[twinmomplus2new]

My kids are 3, 3, 9, and 17 years old. She is not in a crate she is loose and has free roam of the The first floor. The 3 year olds give her the most attention they are crazy about her. And she in turn follows them around and seeks them out. The vet thinks they are the reason she is becoming so overly protective of the house. The window she has destroyed the sill on is in the playroom where they are most of the time. My 9 year old tried to drag one of the little ones in the house the other day. She saw that out the kitchen window and went nuts barking, slamming her body against the window. I looked up saw what she was reacting to seperated the older from the younger and she walked calmy away from the window. She clearly thinks they are hers even over the older kids.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

That makes sense. So you are saying she has developed a very strong attachment to the twins. Man that is one tougn situation. I don't know what to tell you. Her life span is 8-10 yrs, in which she is now elderly. It is like she has become their "grandma".