Does your State do this?

[mrs. magoo]

I just want to add one final thing about the ID usage. My daughter goes to college in PA. PA has this stupid law that if you are under 21 you can not even sit with your friends who are over 21 if they are drinking. So if my daughter wanted to go out to eat with her older friends she had to sit at a separate table by herself. This was on display this weekend as her best friend drove from her college in Detroit to surprise my daughter. The friend came to the restaurant that my girls were at to surprise her and then had to sit at a separate table since the BF is under 21 until April. So stupid. I don't know if it a PA law or a law in the county my daughters school is in but it is probably the #1 reason she wanted to use her sister's ID this fall.

 

[mrodgers]

I just want to add one final thing about the ID usage. My daughter goes to college in PA. PA has this stupid law that if you are under 21 you can not even sit with your friends who are over 21 if they are drinking. So if my daughter wanted to go out to eat with her older friends she had to sit at a separate table by herself. This was on display this weekend as her best friend drove from her college in Detroit to surprise my daughter. The friend came to the restaurant that my girls were at to surprise her and then had to sit at a separate table since the BF is under 21 until April. So stupid. I don't know if it a PA law or a law in the county my daughters school is in but it is probably the #1 reason she wanted to use her sister's ID this fall.

I've never heard of this and have routinely drank a beer at dinner many times with my underage children at the table.

Probably more rules of the establishments in college towns. It's not law.

 

[mrs. magoo]

I've never heard of this and have routinely drank a beer at dinner many times with my underage children at the table.

Probably more rules of the establishments in college towns. It's not law.

Minors present under the Pizza Hut exception are not permitted to sit in the bar section of the premises. Further, no alcoholic beverages can be served to any adult at the table or booth where the minor is seated (unless the minor is also there with a parent, legal guardian, or proper supervisor), without risk of citation by the BLCE for having minors frequent the premises Pennsylvania law specifically defines a minor as a “person under the age of 21 years.” 1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991. Minors are not permitted on licensed premises unless they fall under one of the above-listed exceptions. Be advised that it does not matter if a minor is age eighteen, nineteen, or twenty; the same rules apply. It should also be noted that an establishment is permitted to make house rules that place additional limits as to when minors are allowed on the premises

This is the law that prevented her from sitting with her friends who were 21. If you are with your children you are fine but when your children want to go out with their friends who are 21 they are not allowed to sit together.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Minors present under the Pizza Hut exception are not permitted to sit in the bar section of the premises. Further, no alcoholic beverages can be served to any adult at the table or booth where the minor is seated (unless the minor is also there with a parent, legal guardian, or proper supervisor), without risk of citation by the BLCE for having minors frequent the premises Pennsylvania law specifically defines a minor as a “person under the age of 21 years.” 1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991. Minors are not permitted on licensed premises unless they fall under one of the above-listed exceptions. Be advised that it does not matter if a minor is age eighteen, nineteen, or twenty; the same rules apply. It should also be noted that an establishment is permitted to make house rules that place additional limits as to when minors are allowed on the premises

This is the law that prevented her from sitting with her friends who were 21. If you are with your children you are fine but when your children want to go out with their friends who are 21 they are not allowed to sit together.

That if I'm reading correctly means that an establishment isn't supposed to allow those under 21 in period if they fall under a place that is listed as being 21 unless they are with their parent, legal guardian, or have proper supervision. The whole "having minors frequent the premises" part.

If I understand that correctly they basically are talking about places that are supposed to be 21 and up but allow for exceptions when those individuals under 21 are attached via their parent, guardian or properly supervised, and because that exception is being made no alcohol is allowed to be served at that particular table.

This seems pretty much like certain places I've even gone to assuming I've read it correctly. There's a restaurant called Johnny's Tavern that after a certain time you have to be 21 and older to go in, except if you're with your family (I seldom have seen people actively bring kids in it's more that the families went earlier and are still in the restaurant when the time for it to be 21 and up switched). There is now such rule that they can't plop down a beer to that table, but I am familiar with rules that do not allow those under 21 admittance.

Granted again this is just me reading what you wrote above but are you sure it's actually stating that you can't sit at the same table simply because one person of the group is 21 or is it really more that the place is supposed to be 21 and up to begin with.

 

[kdonnel]

I just want to add one final thing about the ID usage. My daughter goes to college in PA. PA has this stupid law that if you are under 21 you can not even sit with your friends who are over 21 if they are drinking. So if my daughter wanted to go out to eat with her older friends she had to sit at a separate table by herself. This was on display this weekend as her best friend drove from her college in Detroit to surprise my daughter. The friend came to the restaurant that my girls were at to surprise her and then had to sit at a separate table since the BF is under 21 until April. So stupid. I don't know if it a PA law or a law in the county my daughters school is in but it is probably the #1 reason she wanted to use her sister's ID this fall.

Sounds like your daughters friends always had the option to not drink for an hour while they ate and caught up with one another. There have to be restaurants that do not have a bar attached.

 

[bcla]

Minors present under the Pizza Hut exception are not permitted to sit in the bar section of the premises. Further, no alcoholic beverages can be served to any adult at the table or booth where the minor is seated (unless the minor is also there with a parent, legal guardian, or proper supervisor), without risk of citation by the BLCE for having minors frequent the premises Pennsylvania law specifically defines a minor as a “person under the age of 21 years.” 1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991. Minors are not permitted on licensed premises unless they fall under one of the above-listed exceptions. Be advised that it does not matter if a minor is age eighteen, nineteen, or twenty; the same rules apply. It should also be noted that an establishment is permitted to make house rules that place additional limits as to when minors are allowed on the premises

This is the law that prevented her from sitting with her friends who were 21. If you are with your children you are fine but when your children want to go out with their friends who are 21 they are not allowed to sit together.

That seems a bit extreme. I know of certain bars that are licensed as 21+ only establishments, even if they do serve some food. However, the rules I've seen on bars attached to a restaurant are odd sometimes. They basically make up their own rules other than that children can't be a bar counter, but can be at a table. Doesn't make much sense, but I've seen everything from children not allowed at all at a restaurant bar area, to minors being allowed to stand right next to a barstool as long as they weren't seated.

I did that once at a Ruth's Chris, where the bar area was the only place we could get certain specials ($6 burgers and filet sandwiches) and it was extremely crowded there as a result even though the rest of the restaurant was pretty empty. We could order beverages without a seat, but not food. And I finally snagged a single empty bar seat and ordered for all of us, while we made do with the area in front of me. So it's my wife and 4 year old off to the side while I'm sitting there trying to order. It seemed kind of weird with maybe 4 plates in front of just me feeding three people, but I wasn't the only one doing it.

 

[sam_gordon]

Minors present under the Pizza Hut exception are not permitted to sit in the bar section of the premises. Further, no alcoholic beverages can be served to any adult at the table or booth where the minor is seated (unless the minor is also there with a parent, legal guardian, or proper supervisor), without risk of citation by the BLCE for having minors frequent the premises Pennsylvania law specifically defines a minor as a “person under the age of 21 years.” 1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991. Minors are not permitted on licensed premises unless they fall under one of the above-listed exceptions. Be advised that it does not matter if a minor is age eighteen, nineteen, or twenty; the same rules apply. It should also be noted that an establishment is permitted to make house rules that place additional limits as to when minors are allowed on the premises

This is the law that prevented her from sitting with her friends who were 21. If you are with your children you are fine but when your children want to go out with their friends who are 21 they are not allowed to sit together.

The way I read that, is while true the minor can't be seated with friends only who are drinking. If a parent, legal guardian, or proper supervisor are there, then they can. As mentioned, the friends can all go out and sit together, just can't get alcohol.

 

[mrs. magoo]

Sounds like your daughters friends always had the option to not drink for an hour while they ate and caught up with one another. There have to be restaurants that do not have a bar attached.

Yes I agree with you but all the restaurants close to campus and within walking distance have a bar attached to them so while her friends could not drink they are also 21 so they can drink if they want to as well. It is all in the past now that she turned 21 last week but having her sister's ID just made things less anxious for her. She deals with a ton of anxiety and the pandemic has only made things worse.
ETA: She has only had 1 semester where things were a normal college experience. She will graduate next June. She constantly questions her college choice and her experience since it was different than her 2 older siblings.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes I agree with you but all the restaurants close to campus and within walking distance have a bar attached to them so while her friends could not drink they are also 21 so they can drink if they want to as well. It is all in the past now that she turned 21 last week but having her sister's ID just made things less anxious for her. She deals with a ton of anxiety and the pandemic has only made things worse.
ETA: She has only had 1 semester where things were a normal college experience. She will graduate next June. She constantly questions her college choice and her experience since it was different than her 2 older siblings.

None of us truly care (well I doubt that we really do) that your daughter used her sister's ID although you seem to be providing a lot of excuses/reasons for why which have changed since the topic got raised.

I believe most of it came from you fully being down for it, encouraging it even which is fairly atypical.

But just for the sake of the conversation people deal with stuff all the time, they don't resort to using fake IDs or IDs that do not belong to them. She probably just wanted to fit in and not be the odd one out and being friends with people who are older than you can come with that. Seems a lot more hmm normal and I wouldn't pass this off as "it's just pandemic increased anxiety" and she needed to use her sister's ID for her own mental health as that implies if we weren't in a pandemic she wouldn't. IF the rules were that way she would have done it irrespective of there being a pandemic if what you say is true about her wanting to get into bars with her friends to hang out. That's like a tale as old as time.

On the flipside wouldn't you agree that her friends could have chosen to meet elsewhere? Seems like that would have actually been the better option and wouldn't have added to her need to use an ID other than her own just to hang out with her friends. Seems like they were adding to her anxiety by creating a situation where she felt she needed to break the rules, but YMMV there.

 

[GreatLakes]

I just want to add one final thing about the ID usage. My daughter goes to college in PA. PA has this stupid law that if you are under 21 you can not even sit with your friends who are over 21 if they are drinking. So if my daughter wanted to go out to eat with her older friends she had to sit at a separate table by herself. This was on display this weekend as her best friend drove from her college in Detroit to surprise my daughter. The friend came to the restaurant that my girls were at to surprise her and then had to sit at a separate table since the BF is under 21 until April. So stupid. I don't know if it a PA law or a law in the county my daughters school is in but it is probably the #1 reason she wanted to use her sister's ID this fall.

Or her friends could just not have a drink for a while as they caught up. We have establishments around here that impose that rule from time to time but as long as everyone at the table wasn't drinking it wouldn't matter if they all sat together. Are her friends such lushes that they couldn't go an hour without a drink so they could all sit together?

 

[mjkacmom]

None of us truly care (well I doubt that we really do) that your daughter used her sister's ID although you seem to be providing a lot of excuses/reasons for why which have changed since the topic got raised.

I believe most of it came from you fully being down for it, encouraging it even which is fairly atypical.

But just for the sake of the conversation people deal with stuff all the time, they don't resort to using fake IDs or IDs that do not belong to them. She probably just wanted to fit in and not be the odd one out and being friends with people who are older than you can come with that. Seems a lot more hmm normal and I wouldn't pass this off as "it's just pandemic increased anxiety" and she needed to use her sister's ID for her own mental health as that implies if we weren't in a pandemic she wouldn't. IF the rules were that way she would have done it irrespective of there being a pandemic if what you say is true about her wanting to get into bars with her friends to hang out. That's like a tale as old as time.

On the flipside wouldn't you agree that her friends could have chosen to meet elsewhere? Seems like that would have actually been the better option and wouldn't have added to her need to use an ID other than her own just to hang out with her friends. Seems like they were adding to her anxiety by creating a situation where she felt she needed to break the rules, but YMMV there.

It really doesn’t matter the reason, but I know so many young adults having 5 of my own, their friends from high school/college, nieces and nephews, I don’t know any without fakes, that get taken left and right and need replacing. Worst case scenario is getting a fine (which happens frequently at college bars who are lax in checking). There are also establishments where they know they can’t use fakes like some college bars, or places at the Jersey shore.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It really doesn’t matter the reason, but I know so many young adults having 5 of my own, their friends from high school/college, nieces and nephews, I don’t know any without fakes, that get taken left and right and need replacing. Worst case scenario is getting a fine (which happens frequently at college bars who are lax in checking). There are also establishments where they know they can’t use fakes like some college bars, or places at the Jersey shore.

Right which is why all the excuses and reasoning don't really matter and I don't think a single poster here was trying to ignore the usage of fake IDs or usage of using a relative's we all know it happens.

If I may be so bold as to say all the reasons given throughout the thread are in an attempt to make it look like parental acceptance and encouragement should be seen as a good thing like it's just them looking out for their kid (which would include multiple posters including yourself). But come on it's really just normal behavior to want to be included and hardly a new thing cropping up. On a scale of "how bad is this" it will completely vary but no we don't need reason after reason of why a daughter needed to use her sister's ID.

There was always a choice there, no situation ever dictated the necessity of using an ID other than one's own but there was wants involved. The friends (if speaking about the PP) chose to do xyz the poster's daughter also chose to do abc. Same as any other poster here who did use a fake or one not of their own or whose children did the same or whose parent told their kid to pass down an ID. Maybe just don't present it like it's a need.

 

[mrodgers]

Minors present under the Pizza Hut exception are not permitted to sit in the bar section of the premises. Further, no alcoholic beverages can be served to any adult at the table or booth where the minor is seated (unless the minor is also there with a parent, legal guardian, or proper supervisor), without risk of citation by the BLCE for having minors frequent the premises Pennsylvania law specifically defines a minor as a “person under the age of 21 years.” 1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991. Minors are not permitted on licensed premises unless they fall under one of the above-listed exceptions. Be advised that it does not matter if a minor is age eighteen, nineteen, or twenty; the same rules apply. It should also be noted that an establishment is permitted to make house rules that place additional limits as to when minors are allowed on the premises

This is the law that prevented her from sitting with her friends who were 21. If you are with your children you are fine but when your children want to go out with their friends who are 21 they are not allowed to sit together.

Thank you, learn something new every day


Funniest one was when I was with my oldest 19 year old and stopped at the tobacco shop. Whoops, I said, "Nope, you can legally purchase and smoke weed, but you'll have to sit in the car and wait because you can't come in here with me."

As for those saying can't they just spend 1 hour without drinking? What else are you going to do when you get together with friends for a drink... and one of your friends isn't old enough so she'll just enjoy the burger. It certainly is a stupid law.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What else are you going to do when you get together with friends for a drink... and one of your friends isn't old enough so she'll just enjoy the burger.

Well you wouldn't say "let's meet for drinks" knowing someone couldn't legally do so. You'd say "want to grab some lunch" and ideally would be considerate enough of your friend to select a place that all are welcome OR you don't purchase a drink while your friend is there. Isn't that the considerate, friend-like thing to do? Seems super easy. No one person can change the law but you do have choices. What kind of friend does that make a person who purposefully makes someone eat by themselves just so they can have a beer even if they feel they have every right to have that beer, kinda makes for a crappy friend. I agree the surprise visit that was mentioned for a different scenario makes it less so to do that but certainly don't actively plan to invite your friend knowing she'd be at a table by herself unless she uses deception because you're unwilling to part with a beer for the time she's there.

 

[sam_gordon]

As for those saying can't they just spend 1 hour without drinking? What else are you going to do when you get together with friends for a drink... and one of your friends isn't old enough so she'll just enjoy the burger. It certainly is a stupid law.

While I agree it's a stupid law, if you really care about the friend, shouldn't you be willing to forgo your alcoholic beverage for the hour or two the meal takes?

 

[mrodgers]

Well you wouldn't say "let's meet for drinks" knowing someone couldn't legally do so. You'd say "want to grab some lunch" and ideally would be considerate enough of your friend to select a place that all are welcome OR you don't purchase a drink while your friend is there. Isn't that the considerate, friend-like thing to do? Seems super easy. No one person can change the law but you do have choices.

It depends on knowledge as I think I've represented myself enough to show I had no idea that was a law. So yes, at the time that I was 21 with friends in both over and under the 21 year age, we would get together to have drinks and someone who wasn't 21 would just not drink, although back then no one cared much so the 19 year olds would get away with drinking as well.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It depends on knowledge as I think I've represented myself enough to show I had no idea that was a law. So yes, at the time that I was 21 with friends in both over and under the 21 year age, we would get together to have drinks and someone who wasn't 21 would just not drink, although back then no one cared much so the 19 year olds would get away with drinking as well.

In the conversation we're talking about the PP's kid and their friends were aware of the law. They made sure to let us know it was posted on the establishment. And you'd think after the first occurrence if it was a surprise one the first time you wouldn't repeat it. In the conversation with the PP the ID was a habitual thing done, lack of knowledge of the rules was not existent and in fact was done to purposefully to go around the law. Seems to be the reasoning still stands the friends don't have to drink they chose to and by doing so put the PP's daughter in a position of being left out or getting an ID that reflects she was at least 21. The PP's daughter chose the latter with her parent's blessing totally and off she went.

I think this is trying to make complex answers when it's more on the simple front.

 

[sam_gordon]

It depends on knowledge as I think I've represented myself enough to show I had no idea that was a law. So yes, at the time that I was 21 with friends in both over and under the 21 year age, we would get together to have drinks and someone who wasn't 21 would just not drink, although back then no one cared much so the 19 year olds would get away with drinking as well.

It was the "what else are you going to do... " comment I was more responding to. That sort of read to me that you (speaking of the 21+yo friends) HAD to have alcohol. If that's not how you meant it, I apologize.

 

[Colleen27]

Or her friends could just not have a drink for a while as they caught up. We have establishments around here that impose that rule from time to time but as long as everyone at the table wasn't drinking it wouldn't matter if they all sat together. Are her friends such lushes that they couldn't go an hour without a drink so they could all sit together?

We are talking about very young adults here... if the choice is the whole group going out and no one can drink vs. the whole group minus one going out and having pizza and beer, a lot of times that one person is going to be left out. I was the youngest of my friend group and believe me, they didn't avoid over-18 venues during our senior year/summer just because I was those all-important few months behind and not able to go. If I'd had an older sister whose ID I could have borrowed to not get left out, I absolutely would have. Because they're *kids*. They're not paragons of unselfishness, especially when it comes to how they spend their weekend nights.

That law is quite simply bonkers, IMO. My DD isn't drinking age and frequently goes out with friends (and coworkers, and non-parent/guardian relatives for that matter) for meals where others are enjoying a drink. She just orders something non-alcoholic. No big deal. Certainly not worth banishing her from the table over.

 

[bcla]

We are talking about very young adults here... if the choice is the whole group going out and no one can drink vs. the whole group minus one going out and having pizza and beer, a lot of times that one person is going to be left out. I was the youngest of my friend group and believe me, they didn't avoid over-18 venues during our senior year/summer just because I was those all-important few months behind and not able to go. If I'd had an older sister whose ID I could have borrowed to not get left out, I absolutely would have. Because they're *kids*. They're not paragons of unselfishness, especially when it comes to how they spend their weekend nights.

That law is quite simply bonkers, IMO. My DD isn't drinking age and frequently goes out with friends (and coworkers, and non-parent/guardian relatives for that matter) for meals where others are enjoying a drink. She just orders something non-alcoholic. No big deal. Certainly not worth banishing her from the table over.

The thing is that it can be very difficult when someone just orders a pitcher of Bud Light. I'm used to places where it's just a pitcher of beer with pizza or even bowling. When they start mixing up groups around age 21 that gets interesting.

But of course the age limit of 21 is pretty much arbitrary.