Does your religion....

[JennyMominRI]

I thought the same thing too. I haven't heard the word purgatory in mass for as long as I can remember. He must be old-old school.

As my mother is terminally ill she has asked me to help "pray her out of Purgatory"....I don't quite know how to respond to that.

 

[Galahad]

Nope, I'm a Methodist too.

 

[esdras]

I hope I can add something here since I am Catholic and majored in Catholic Studies at University.

First, there are problems with how Purgatory has been described and taught throughout history - the big problem was with the idea that you could pray for someone to "lessen their time" in Purgatory.

In official Catholic documents, there is NO temporal aspect to Purgatory. In fact, there is no temporal aspect to Heaven or Hell either. Many theologians argue that God is "atemporal" - completely outside of, and unconstrained by, linear time as we must experience. Therefore, any realm in the afterlife has no time aspect to its nature.

Secondly, Purgatory (again, like Heaven and Hell) has no concrete "spatial" element to it either. It is actually less spatially defined than Heaven or Hell (both of which are sometimes spoken of as places). Purgatory is not mentioned as a place in any official documents.

As others have mentioned, Scripture does support the concept of an after death judgment before God. Paul writes in terms of the (paraphrasing) person's wrongful acts being burned away, although the person will be saved, as if through fire. There are others, but this is perhaps the main one cited in most cases. I can add the others later if it is requested.

Based off of these Scriptures, many have written about the experience a person will have when they come face to face with God - the realization of how badly you fell short throughout your life. How often you made the wrong choice, took the easy way out, turned away from what God wanted for you, etc. This will perhaps be the greatest pain anyone could ever experience - hence, the pain of Purgatory. However, at precisely the same time, the person will realize that God forgives them for all of it - that they are indeed saved (you don't go to Hell from Purgatory, only Heaven). So, you will be saved, but as through fire.

A wonderful analogy I have heard regarding this is that we are all blocks of wood, and each and every one of our sins (against God and each other) are like nails in the wood - damaging us in some way. Christians believe that Christ's sacrifice enables these sins to be forgiven - the nails are removed. Our sins have been taken away. However, we are still blocks of wood filled with many holes. Purgatory is the experience of God filling in those holes with His total unconditional forgiveness - but in the holes being healed, at that "moment" (remembering that time is irrelevant here), we are fully aware of each and every hole in our souls.

I have always contended with my non-Catholic Christian friends that non-Catholics do believe in a final judgment by God as I have described above, but that the name Purgatory is not ascribed to what happens. Purgatory essentially purges any remaining sinful nature we may have left as fallen human beings. I cannot imagine anyone argue, despite the new nature we take on as Christians, that any one of us becomes perfect here on Earth as we will be in Heaven.

However, as I mentioned earlier, while what I have described is the "official" understanding of Purgatory, history and innacurate teachings have unfortunately given impressions of Purgatory that are inaccurate.

I hope this helps.

 

[daisax]

Thanks, esdras -- that's basically the scenario as I learned it from a Jesuit priest.

 

[ICF]

I thought the same thing too. I haven't heard the word purgatory in mass for as long as I can remember. He must be old-old school.

Not heard it mentioned in my Catholic churches either.....

 

[lilyv]

The concept of limbo is so sad to me. It's cruel.

 

[cherylp3]

Jewish as well, we are taught that doing now is what is important.

 

[daisax]

The concept of limbo is so sad to me. It's cruel.

Technically speaking, it was a nice place, but yes, as a concept it wasn't exactly comforting.

 

[Kath2003]

Technically speaking, it was a nice place...

Lois: "This isn't bad. It's not good, but it's not bad."
Brain: "So-So."
Peter: "More or less."

 

[jimmiej]

As others have mentioned, Scripture does support the concept of an after death judgment before God. Paul writes in terms of the (paraphrasing) person's wrongful acts being burned away, although the person will be saved, as if through fire. There are others, but this is perhaps the main one cited in most cases. I can add the others later if it is requested.

Based off of these Scriptures, many have written about the experience a person will have when they come face to face with God - the realization of how badly you fell short throughout your life. How often you made the wrong choice, took the easy way out, turned away from what God wanted for you, etc. This will perhaps be the greatest pain anyone could ever experience - hence, the pain of Purgatory. However, at precisely the same time, the person will realize that God forgives them for all of it - that they are indeed saved (you don't go to Hell from Purgatory, only Heaven). So, you will be saved, but as through fire.

I have always contended with my non-Catholic Christian friends that non-Catholics do believe in a final judgment by God as I have described above, but that the name Purgatory is not ascribed to what happens. Purgatory essentially purges any remaining sinful nature we may have left as fallen human beings. I cannot imagine anyone argue, despite the new nature we take on as Christians, that any one of us becomes perfect here on Earth as we will be in Heaven.

Non-Catholic here. What you describe here sounds like what the Bible calls The Judgement Seat of Christ. That is, the judgement of a believers works, not their salvation. All those whose names are found in The Lamb's Book of Life (believer's in Jesus Christ) will be at this judgement. Our works which were of the wrong motive (for example), will be burned up & what is left (good works) will earn us rewards in heaven.

On the other hand, those who reject Christ will be at The Great White Throne Judgement. Here. each person will be shown that their name IS NOT in The Lamb's Book of Life, & they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

 

[Marlin Nemo]

Well, Our priest IS 94 years old, can you believe that? Still sharp as a tack he is though, with a good sense of humor too! Maybe that's why it is still mentioned?

 

[Marlin Nemo]

Sorry, duplicate post!

 

[juligrl]

Methodist and no.

 

[beattyfamily]

Practicing Catholic here. Limbo is no longer taught or talked about in the Church.

Purgatory is still being taught and talked about. It is mentioned at every single mass. We always pray for the souls in Purgatory at each Mass.

All Souls Day - A special day to pray and give Mass for the souls in Purgatory.

 

[esdras]

Non-Catholic here. What you describe here sounds like what the Bible calls The Judgement Seat of Christ. That is, the judgement of a believers works, not their salvation. All those whose names are found in The Lamb's Book of Life (believer's in Jesus Christ) will be at this judgement. Our works which were of the wrong motive (for example), will be burned up & what is left (good works) will earn us rewards in heaven.

On the other hand, those who reject Christ will be at The Great White Throne Judgement. Here. each person will be shown that their name IS NOT in The Lamb's Book of Life, & they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

Essentially, this is correct. As I mentioned in my post - you CANNOT go to Hell from Purgatory, only heaven. You are saved.

In general, however, Catholic thought tends to support the idea that all the saved experience Purgatory of some sort or degree - no one gets to go to Heaven and proudly (in the words of Peter Gabriel) "walk through the front door".

The concepts are essentially the same (perhaps some minor differences if we really sat down and analyzed every specific detail) - only with different terms.

Practicing Catholic here. Limbo is no longer taught or talked about in the Church.

Purgatory is still being taught and talked about. It is mentioned at every single mass. We always pray for the souls in Purgatory at each Mass.

All Souls Day - A special day to pray and give Mass for the souls in Purgatory.

This is likely where some of the confusion comes into play - Purgatory is now though of like a place - and we are praying for the souls that are in Purgatory - now we get a sense that they have been (and are going to be) there for a while.

Better to say that we pray for the souls who are in the state of Purgatory - and, in fact, there is no time in Purgatory, so it's hard to even think of praying for the souls there.

This is why God is thought of as being atemporal. The soul of our loved one after they die - is not experiencing purgatory in our timeframe - yet we can pray for them, since God is also "outside" our timeframe, any prayer He hears can be acted upon in an atemporal manner.

Basically, when we pray for souls in Purgatory, we are asking God to have mercy upon them - i.e. go easy on them, please. Our prayers occur in linear time, but are being heard in the atemporal afterlife. So, we can keep on praying for any soul in purgatory, even though there is no way for us to comprehend the fact that their experience took no time from our perspective.

I'm sorry, this is a terribly confusing topic - the human limitations on language mean that we just can't explain atemporality all that well. Plus, not having experienced it, it's kind of hard to get a good frame of reference to build upon.

I hope I haven't confused things further.

 

[beattyfamily]

This is likely where some of the confusion comes into play - Purgatory is now though of like a place - and we are praying for the souls that are in Purgatory - now we get a sense that they have been (and are going to be) there for a while.

Better to say that we pray for the souls who are in the state of Purgatory - and, in fact, there is no time in Purgatory, so it's hard to even think of praying for the souls there.

This is why God is thought of as being atemporal. The soul of our loved one after they die - is not experiencing purgatory in our timeframe - yet we can pray for them, since God is also "outside" our timeframe, any prayer He hears can be acted upon in an atemporal manner.

Basically, when we pray for souls in Purgatory, we are asking God to have mercy upon them - i.e. go easy on them, please. Our prayers occur in linear time, but are being heard in the atemporal afterlife. So, we can keep on praying for any soul in purgatory, even though there is no way for us to comprehend the fact that their experience took no time from our perspective.

I'm sorry, this is a terribly confusing topic - the human limitations on language mean that we just can't explain atemporality all that well. Plus, not having experienced it, it's kind of hard to get a good frame of reference to build upon.

I hope I haven't confused things further.

I'm not confused in the least.

 

[esdras]

I'm not confused in the least.

Really?!? I'm pretty sure I confused myself back there!

 

[rayelias]

Does your religion speak about purgatory or limbo or anything like that?
I was raised Methodist and had never given it much thought til I converted to Catholicism and hear about it weekly now at mass.
Thoughts?-

Reformed Catholic here.

AFAIK, "Purgatory" or "Limbo" doesn't exist in the Bible. It is an invention of the Catholic Church which has, over time, said it didn't exist, does exist, sort of exists, may or may not exist. Most other Christian denominations, from what I understand, do not accept the idea of "purgatory."

It can also be argued that the common perception of "hell" is not consistent with Biblical teachings, as well. Nor the concept of "soul". But those discussions are for people much more learned than I.

 

[esdras]

Reformed Catholic here.

AFAIK, "Purgatory" or "Limbo" doesn't exist in the Bible.

The term "Purgatory" - no. But my posts above have indicated where there is some Biblical basis (depending on your interpretation of certain passages) for the concept of Purgatory.

Additionally, while "Limbo" does not exist as a term in the Bible, the way it was previously taught to be a place of "not good, not bad, just simple existence after death" kind of thing is actually rather similar to the early Jewish concept of Sheol - which is mentioned in Scripture.

 

[diznygirl]

Well, Our priest IS 94 years old, can you believe that? Still sharp as a tack he is though, with a good sense of humor too! Maybe that's why it is still mentioned?

I don't think he's the sharp tack you think he is.