Does your 4 year old use a carseat on the plane?

[maxiesmom]

The poster I responded to was talking about their mere convenience and so are you. My child's safety will ALWAYS come before your convenience or anyone elses. My child has never kicked anyone's seat. The poster I responded to was saying when she reclines kids in carseats kick. Well, she needs to rethink reclining then. I was suggesting she relook at who was being inconsiderate. You always have the option of flying first class if you are concerned about how packed the coach sections are and are concerned about getting your seat knocked. My attitude is just fine. I think you need to rethink about what we are talking about here - someone saying that a child's safety is not as important as their comfort on an airplane. So, yes this does make me angry.

No one is saying your child's safety is not important. We are saying it is not an either or thing. You child can be in a seat, but you need to make sure they are not kicking the seat in front of them, reclined seat or not. Just because a seat is reclined does not mean your child can kick the tar out of it!

We could turn this around and say that if a child can't be in a car seat without kicking the seat in front of them then that parent should sit in first class so that the child has room to kick and fuss without bothering others.

 

[annette20071]

No one is saying your child's safety is not important. We are saying it is not an either or thing. You child can be in a seat, but you need to make sure they are not kicking the seat in front of them, reclined seat or not. Just because a seat is reclined does not mean your child can kick the tar out of it!

We could turn this around and say that if a child can't be in a car seat without kicking the seat in front of them then that parent should sit in first class so that the child has room to kick and fuss without bothering others.

Yes we can look at it both ways. The post I was responding to stated:

I am just stating what I have seen. Once a person reclines most of those bigger kids are sqooshed in their carseats. Since you feel that this is the safest way to travel with your child then YOU should be the one inconvenienced- not someone else. Have someone from your party sit in front of the child if need be. That is being considerate.

If you know you are squishing the kid behind you, why would you recline? Both reclining and using the car seat are "allowed". One is for comfort and one is for safety. Safety trumps in my opinion. It is ridiculous to suggest the parents should buy yet another seat in front so that someone else is not inconvenienced. My point was SHE should look at who is being inconsiderate. This discussion is beyond ridiculous at this point. Parents don't let their kids intentionally kick someone's seat. It is ridiculous to assume that they are. If a kid is bumping the seat in front because they are squished then complain to the airline about how close they pack the seats. Be considerate and don't recline. Don't suggest a parent not put their kids in a carseat which is for their safety.

 

[maxiesmom]

Yes we can look at it both ways. The post I was responding to stated:

I am just stating what I have seen. Once a person reclines most of those bigger kids are sqooshed in their carseats. Since you feel that this is the safest way to travel with your child then YOU should be the one inconvenienced- not someone else. Have someone from your party sit in front of the child if need be. That is being considerate.

If you know you are squishing the kid behind you, why would you recline? Both reclining and using the car seat are "allowed". One is for comfort and one is for safety. Safety trumps in my opinion. It is ridiculous to suggest the parents should buy yet another seat in front so that someone else is not inconvenienced. My point was SHE should look at who is being inconsiderate. This discussion is beyond ridiculous at this point. Parents don't let their kids intentionally kick someone's seat. It is ridiculous to assume that they are. If a kid is bumping the seat in front because they are squished then complain to the airline about how close they pack the seats. Be considerate and don't recline. Don't suggest a parent not put their kids in a carseat which is for their safety.

People recline because the seats are MADE to do so. And while you think it inconsiderate of someone to recline their seat, it is inconsiderate too to let your child kick the seat in front of them. It doesn't matter if the seat is reclined or not, you shouldn't let your child kick. If your child is too squished to sit comfortably in the space made by the person in front of them using their seat in its intended manner, then you should be the one seeing to your child's comfort.

I'm sorry, but I think it is silly how some parents throw out the fact that they have a child like it trumps everyone else's needs. Your child can't behave when someone uses the seat in front of them as it is intended to be used? Then you should be the one inconvenienced. Not other adults. That is part of being a parent, putting your child's needs ahead of your wants. You shouldn't expect other adults to do it for you.

 

[Hannathy]

People recline because the seats are MADE to do so. And while you think it inconsiderate of someone to recline their seat, it is inconsiderate too to let your child kick the seat in front of them. It doesn't matter if the seat is reclined or not, you shouldn't let your child kick. If your child is too squished to sit comfortably in the space made by the person in front of them using their seat in its intended manner, then you should be the one seeing to your child's comfort.

I'm sorry, but I think it is silly how some parents throw out the fact that they have a child like it trumps everyone else's needs. Your child can't behave when someone uses the seat in front of them as it is intended to be used? Then you should be the one inconvenienced. Not other adults. That is part of being a parent, putting your child's needs ahead of your wants. You shouldn't expect other adults to do it for you.

Amen!!! and thank you!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Yes we can look at it both ways. The post I was responding to stated:

I am just stating what I have seen. Once a person reclines most of those bigger kids are sqooshed in their carseats. Since you feel that this is the safest way to travel with your child then YOU should be the one inconvenienced- not someone else. Have someone from your party sit in front of the child if need be. That is being considerate.

If you know you are squishing the kid behind you, why would you recline? Both reclining and using the car seat are "allowed". One is for comfort and one is for safety. Safety trumps in my opinion. It is ridiculous to suggest the parents should buy yet another seat in front so that someone else is not inconvenienced. My point was SHE should look at who is being inconsiderate. This discussion is beyond ridiculous at this point. Parents don't let their kids intentionally kick someone's seat. It is ridiculous to assume that they are. If a kid is bumping the seat in front because they are squished then complain to the airline about how close they pack the seats. Be considerate and don't recline. Don't suggest a parent not put their kids in a carseat which is for their safety.

I believe you are responding to me. Well this is why I would recline. Because I have flown pregnant and could not sit even remotely comfortable without leaning back. Because I paid for the seat and that includes the option to recline. Because I have back problems and need to adjust my position. I have kids and the only person responsible for their safety is me and my dh. If you feel their safety trumps all then it should be YOU who is sitting in front of them not reclining. YOU should be considerate as well. As for first class, many planes don't have first class.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

People recline because the seats are MADE to do so. And while you think it inconsiderate of someone to recline their seat, it is inconsiderate too to let your child kick the seat in front of them. It doesn't matter if the seat is reclined or not, you shouldn't let your child kick. If your child is too squished to sit comfortably in the space made by the person in front of them using their seat in its intended manner, then you should be the one seeing to your child's comfort.

when someone uses the seat in front of them as it is intended to be used? Then you should be the one inconvenienced. Not other adults. That is part of being a parent, putting your child's needs ahead of your wants. You I'm sorry, but I think it is silly how some parents throw out the fact that they have a child like it trumps everyone else's needs. Your child can't behave shouldn't expect other adults to do it for you.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

 

[Cynsational]

Currently struggling with this car seat issue as well. Our daughter is four years old and has a Britax Roundabout (big, heavy)that she has always used in the past (cross-Canada flights when she was 18 months and 3 years old).

Our first trip to Disney will also be our first trip flying a US carrier (Continental) and her first trip to the US. We have a two hour flight from Atl. Canada to Newark, a 1.5 hour wait and then a 3 hour flight to Orlando.

We had thought perhaps this trip we would skip the hassle installing and dragging the seat around (esp. since I'm not sure how smoothly our connection will go, esp. having to go through customs during that 1.5 hrs). We can rent a seat from the car rental agency, and I know my daughter would be thrilled to find out she was allowed to sit without it I think.

My daughter is very small for her age - 27 pounds and 37 inches tall. I am concerned that if I have her just belted in, her legs will not be able to hang over the seat at all and will be sticking straight out - that cannot be comfortable. Also, I have my fingers crossed that she'll sleep and I'm not sure if she'll be comfortable enough in a regular airplane seat to drift off.

Torn.

 

[brergnat]

Cynsational...if I were you I'd take the seat simply due to your daughter's small size. My older son is short and thin as well and he rode without a seat last year (he was almost five) and he DID fall asleep and it was very hard for him to stay asleep! He kept slumping all over the place. I had my arm around him and was trying to prop him up with his stuffed dog, but it was very uncomfortable for me! When there was slight turbulence his head would flop around. On our previous flight he was fine since he stayed awake. He is not one to fall asleep randomly during the day (gave up naps at 20 months old). Turns out he was getting sick. Anyway, this is a driving force in my decision too. My younger son still naps occasionally. I think he will need a nap on the second leg of our trip and he sleeps good in his carseat. Might as well stick with what we know works.

 

[BellyBaby]

Amen!!! and thank you!

People recline because the seats are MADE to do so. And while you think it inconsiderate of someone to recline their seat, it is inconsiderate too to let your child kick the seat in front of them. It doesn't matter if the seat is reclined or not, you shouldn't let your child kick. If your child is too squished to sit comfortably in the space made by the person in front of them using their seat in its intended manner, then you should be the one seeing to your child's comfort.

I'm sorry, but I think it is silly how some parents throw out the fact that they have a child like it trumps everyone else's needs. Your child can't behave when someone uses the seat in front of them as it is intended to be used? Then you should be the one inconvenienced. Not other adults. That is part of being a parent, putting your child's needs ahead of your wants. You shouldn't expect other adults to do it for you.

Wow, I haven't even read the bulk of this topic, but this sure sticks out...I love it! Maxie's Mom and Hannathy, you guys rock.

Anyways, I skimmed through most of the "tense" posts b/c I just hate them so much. But I no longer put my 4-yr old DD in her car seat for flying anymore. I just gate check it.

 

[annette20071]

As I already said, I think some people have gone beyond ridiculous on this thread. I've been pretty clear on who I think is being inconsiderate and that is not going to change. Although there is more I would love to say, I am not going to continue a ridiculous battle over airplane seats. I hope you all have a great flight next time you travel.

 

[brergnat]

What is wrong with you people? I asked a simple question. No need to turn it into a fight. I couldn't care less about the issue of seat kicking. I have dealt with that on EVERY SINGLE flight I have ever taken. People need to lighten up. If you can't deal with your seat being kicked or jostled which WILL happen, don't fly! It's what happens on mass transit.

I was only asking because I was interested in other children's experiences both with and without a carseat at the age of four. Mainly, whether it helped with helping a child follow the rules and be more comfortable. That's it. Kids sometimes kick. Mine does in the car. And guess what? Due to his language delay he doesn't always UNDERSTAND instructions or process what I say. It is frustrating for everyone who encounters him. We are doing our best but I cannot control every action he takes. He might kick and I will do my best to make him stop. However I think he would be MORE disruptive if he was able to jump off his seat, crawl around on the floor or grab or hit the seatback, all of which he would try to do if he wasn't strapped in a carseat.

So, I'm taking the seat. Discussion over.

 

[Hannathy]

What is wrong with you people? I asked a simple question. No need to turn it into a fight. I couldn't care less about the issue of seat kicking. I have dealt with that on EVERY SINGLE flight I have ever taken. People need to lighten up. If you can't deal with your seat being kicked or jostled which WILL happen, don't fly! It's what happens on mass transit.

I was only asking because I was interested in other children's experiences both with and without a carseat at the age of four. Mainly, whether it helped with helping a child follow the rules and be more comfortable. That's it. Kids sometimes kick. Mine does in the car. And guess what? Due to his language delay he doesn't always UNDERSTAND instructions or process what I say. It is frustrating for everyone who encounters him. We are doing our best but I cannot control every action he takes. He might kick and I will do my best to make him stop. However I think he would be MORE disruptive if he was able to jump off his seat, crawl around on the floor or grab or hit the seatback, all of which he would try to do if he wasn't strapped in a carseat.

So, I'm taking the seat. Discussion over.

Nice attitude. (IMO)

If you approach others on a flight with that attitude be prepared for no cooperation from the flying public.

 

[annette20071]

Nice attitude. (IMO)

If you approach others on a flight with that attitude be prepared for no cooperation from the flying public.

And your attitude has been super nice, huh?!

 

[brergnat]

Nice attitude. (IMO)

If you approach others on a flight with that attitude be prepared for no cooperation from the flying public.

I'm sorry...I fail to see an "attitude" conveyed in my post. I stated the REALITY that is flying on a plane, and LIVING with a child with a developmental delay.

In a perfect world, everyone would have compassion. Everyone would be civil and friendly and kind. Every child would develop normally. There would be no autism, or speech delays (both of which my children are blessed with...).

This is not a perfect world. I am living in the unperfect world, and am doing my best to cope.

FYI, this is the first vacation we've taken as a family. My kids are almost 6 and 4. It has taken THIS LONG for us to be comfortable with travelling this far. We have stayed home for years because our children are "difficult." Should we have to stay home forever because our children are not perfect angels?

We have taken ONE flight with our kids, and it was only an hour long. That was our test. Our kids were the best behaved kids on the plane by FAR. Even the crew commented on it, and were SHOCKED that our kids have disabilities. This was 9 months ago.

However, life changes. Our younger son has developed severe anxiety and phobias. We are trying to work through it, but we have decided that life goes on, and we must move forward with our plans and expose him to these situations which make him fearful (a few of which include: being around a blender, hearing a vacuum, brushing his teeth, etc.) He WILL be flying on a plane, and it's a long trip. I was concerned, so asked about the carseat maybe being helpful.

YOUR attitude is one of entitlement. That's one of the ugliest attitudes in our society today. So, thanks for your contribution.

 

[catrax]

We took our 4 year old on two trips to WDW. We also had a 2 yr old at the time. The first trip we brought the seats and the second trip we didn't. I must say that those car seats were MISERABLE carrying to the planes, to the room at WDW and then back was WORSE - Orlando security makes it miserable for families from my perspective. I say if you can distract him with a portable DVD player and you'll be sitting right by his side, do it without the car seat! You'll be thankful that you did!

 

[bavaria]

As I already said, I think some people have gone beyond ridiculous on this thread.

Absolutely! Thinking that it is acceptable for children to kick the back of seats, and for adults to demand that others do not recline definitely meets that definition.

Flying means a lot of people in a limited amount of space. One cannot demand respect from others if one is not willing to offer up the same.

 

[annette20071]

Flying means a lot of people in a limited amount of space. One cannot demand respect from others if one is not willing to offer up the same.

Right back at you. It goes both ways.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I just scanned through the thread and see now that we are back to the same age old debates

I will chime in with basically the same things that many have said. Perhaps my experience being a mother, who flew with carseat aged kids about 6-10 times per year will carry a little weight. Who knows though

Chidlren are at more risk while riding in the car to the ariport, even while confined in carseats than they ever arewhile flying in or out of a carseat. I figured if I am willing to take the risk to drive then I should be okay with the infintessimal risk to fly. The lap belts always held my childrn fine even through very rough turbulence (which we did hit a couple of times when they were tiny--and DS has always been a super skinny kid). Also, odds are HUGE that IF there is a real problem in the flight either everyeone will perish (carseat or not) or everyone will make it. Furthermore, the few serious emergencies which end up with living passengers tend to need a quick evacuation of a plane as it fills with smoke. It is much faster to get a child out of a standard airline safety belt than a car seat (and faster to get out of the row without a seat in the way). If you really want to increase your child's chances of surving a crash, you would be much better off to sit near an exit row and in the rear of the plane (estimates are your chance of survival is up to 40% higher in the rear of an aircraft) than to worry about the carseat (personally I have decided airline travel is a low risk and do not worry about it at all). DBiL studies ariline crashes and design airbags for planes for a living. He is an expert on these matters and ends up quoted in meadia outlets after just about any crash or near miss. He agrees with my thoughts on this and did not use a carseat for his son on flights either. All of this to say--I truly feel that the "child safety" argument here is serious overkill (and I am very fond of safety, really I am).

Okay, so deciding that the carseat merely provides a perception of safety (not talking lap child here--talking about being restrained in a lapbelt vs. a carseat) I prefered lapbelts for several other reasons as well:

Frist, as stated here many times, it helps keep the child from kicking the seat in front of him. A couple of kicks or bumps here or there followed by a quick apology are to be expected and only the most sour of travellers would hold that against someone. However, repeated kicking and/or kicking that a parent does not try to stop is terrifically rude and really not acceptable behaviour. Period.

Secondly, I think many kids are used to a certain set of behaviours in the car. The carseat singles to the child that the same rules apply. Those rule may include getting to watch a movie to entire ride, the ride lasting less than an hour, talking in a "loudish" voice to be heard by parents in the front seat from the back, etc. I find having the different seat belt helps send the signal that this is a different enviornment and can help the child remember to keep a "library" voice, cope with not being able to use eletronics during take off and landing, etc.

Finally, I had my children's comfort in mind. Just as adults tend to prefer the roomier seats in first class, I think my chidlren prefered the extra "wiggle room" provded by having the full seat (and prefered not to be squished if the passenger in front of them reclined). Car seats hold a child really pretty tightly in one place and position. I think this is acceptable for shorter car rides (and needed as it does add a great deal to safety in such places) to restrain a child to such an extent, but not for the prolonged duration of a flight.

 

[Cynsational]

It happens. As long as the parents are doing their best to stop it, there's no reason to get worked up. Every time I fly, there are elderly people who bump into the seats and use my seat as leverage to get up. Do I like it? No. Do I get worked up about it? Of course not. Flying (at least coach) is not a luxurious experience. I'm likely to be jostled, overwhelmed by someone's terrible cologne or perfume and generally squished. Breathe in, breathe out and do our best to be considerate of others in whatever small way we can.

I don't recline my seat when I know the person behind me has their tray table down. I don't wear scents on planes. I do my best to make sure my party is quiet. That said, things happen. When I see/hear a child having a meltdown, I recognize that 99% of parents are embarrassed and doing whatever they can to calm their child. Kids are usually exhausted, have waited in terminals, etc. for ages, are in a strange situation. Did you know that if your feet are dangling for long periods, your legs will fall asleep? That is a factor in why kids start pushing/kicking with their feet. Children can be inconvenient. So can elderly people. There is no point in getting upset - I am part of society and if I don't care to deal with inconvenient people, I'll have to become a hermit.

 

[JUJU814]

It happens. As long as the parents are doing their best to stop it, there's no reason to get worked up. Every time I fly, there are elderly people who bump into the seats and use my seat as leverage to get up. Do I like it? No. Do I get worked up about it? Of course not. Flying (at least coach) is not a luxurious experience. I'm likely to be jostled, overwhelmed by someone's terrible cologne or perfume and generally squished. Breathe in, breathe out and do our best to be considerate of others in whatever small way we can.

I don't recline my seat when I know the person behind me has their tray table down. I don't wear scents on planes. I do my best to make sure my party is quiet. That said, things happen. When I see/hear a child having a meltdown, I recognize that 99% of parents are embarrassed and doing whatever they can to calm their child. Kids are usually exhausted, have waited in terminals, etc. for ages, are in a strange situation. Did you know that if your feet are dangling for long periods, your legs will fall asleep? That is a factor in why kids start pushing/kicking with their feet. Children can be inconvenient. So can elderly people. There is no point in getting upset - I am part of society and if I don't care to deal with inconvenient people, I'll have to become a hermit.