Does WDW own the Little Lake Bryan land ???

[KNWVIKING]

I have seen several "maps" that have WDW land highlited to identify it and have always wondered about the land that is on the East side of I-4 near SR 535. From what I've been able to figure out is that it is directly East of Crossroads.The "Mary,Queen of the Universe Shrine" appears to be on this land as well as townhouses in LLB. Anybody have any info on this ?

 

[Werner Weiss]

Yes, Little Lake Bryan was developed by a subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company on Disney property.

See "Disney charts new land deals," by Donna Young, Staff Writer, Orlando Business Journal, June 5, 1998 print edition.

Here's a quote from the article:
<blockquote>ORLANDO -- The Walt Disney Co. and its subsidiary, The Celebration Co., are quietly cutting deals to build hundreds of new hotel rooms, thousands of square feet of new office space and, for the first time, seniors housing in the town of Celebration.

Among yet-to-be-announced projects outlined in confidential company documents:

• Hotel giant Marriott and Orlando-based CNL, a real estate investment trust, have agreed to develop 1,100 hotel rooms at Little Lake Bryan on Disney-owned land in southwest Orange County.

The parcel, which fronts Interstate 4 and State Road 535, will include 1,100 hotel rooms under the name of Marriott subsidiaries Fairfield Inn, Fairfield Suites and Courtyard, as well as three free-standing restaurants.
</blockquote>
Aside from the fact that Marriott renamed its Fairfield Suites brand to Springhill Suites before the hotel opened, that's exactly what happened.

In 2000, Marriott sold the hotels to Orlando-based CNL Hospitality Corp, but continues to operate them under three Marriott brands.

In 2001, Disney sold the CrossRoads of Lake Buena Vista retail center. For some reason, I thought that Disney also sold Little Lake Bryan around that time &#151; but after a few Google searches, I can't find any news about this. So I don't know whether or not Little Lake Bryan is part of Disney.

I wouldn't rely on roadmaps tp show exact, current property lines. Maps, such as the AAA Orlando South map, show WDW boundaries that haven't changed in years. The maps are updated as new roads are built, but not as parcels of land are added to or removed from WDW.

 

[Ona]

Yip. They do. The Disney owned property which participants of the College program and International Programs live in, are located in the Little Lake Bryan area.

Ona

 

[EpcotRanger]

Little Lake Bryan and the surrounding area is owned by Disney and it is used for its College Program students. There are currently three complexes. Vista Way and Chatum Square which are for all of the Domestic students. The Commons is for the internationals. Vista Way is the oldest of the complexes and is also not on the LLB property it is actually tucked away. How do I know this...well I live at Vista Way. Anything else you guys want to know?

 

[Another Voice]

The purchase of the property that would become Walt Disney World would probably make an interesting movie. Central Florida was a mixture of long established agriculture and wild land speculation. Since the 1910’s it had been a place where tiny bits of “the land of endless sunshine and prosperity” were sold to frozen Easterners – all on the promise that one day they would make a fantastic profit on the land. Over the years and over the schemes all those bits of land had been sold, resold, reposed, auctioned off, bartered away and then repurchased again. Tracking down the owners of any square foot (yes, some of the plots were a single square foot) was a full time challenge.

By the mid-sixties Walt Disney was well aware of the impact that he would have on any place that he set up shop. After the disastrous experience with trying to put WDW in St. Louis, he was going to try and do things differently. He was also acutely aware of his limited resources; he wanted to get as much land as he could with this money. That meant keeping things quite.

Several shell companies were set-up with the sole purpose of buying land and keep the real intentions clear. The name “Disney” immediately sparks interest; “Compass Rose” does not. Businesses had discovered cleaver ways of hiding certain activities long before people had heard of the Internet. The mid-sixties was the time of another great Orlando land boom; Cape Canaveral was just down the road and America’s future seemed to lie in outer space. A bunch of land speculators sweeping into town buying odd tracks of land with strange boundries was fairly common.

So Disney worked in secret and slowly gathered up property – until someone found out. The moment the story broke in the local paper land prices skyrocketed and Disney was forced to stop. Although the property they had was contiguous and fairly well shaped, they were left with a lot of strange protrusions and gaps they weren’t able to fill in.

Over the years Disney learned to live with some of the quirks, although they would have given anything to fire a cannon at the Waffle House and t-shirt strip mall just outside of the Hotel Plaza. Little Lake Bryan was originally an employee recreation center with baseball fields, volleyball courts, picnic areas and other amenities available only the Disney cast. But as that strip of I-4 was developed, and pressure inside the company grew for more and more cash to be pumped from WDW, the land use patterns changed. Disney owned property (originally planned as part of an entrance plaza) was turned into the Crossroads shopping plaza. And in a bit of ultimate irony, the long cherished Conversation Area was bulldozed to build Animal Kingdom; the area was chosen because it was the cheapest to build on (the original animal inhabitants didn’t pay rent and so they didn’t count).

Disney also has one extremely unique land issue – the Reedy Creek Development District. The board of this governmental body is elected by the landowners of the property in the district. The boundaries of the district are roughly equal to the property that Disney owns, but is exactly equal to the property that Disney controls. Since a “one company – one government” district is not allowed, property changes hands to “outside” owners in the same way that some corporations are incorporated in Delaware: a polite fiction to ensure the letter of the law is used to fullest extent possible.

In the past holding a chunk of non-WDW Disney land was a formality, a recognition of long service and support of the company. There was no personal benefit to be gained (except maybe the free coffee served at the meetings), but it was a pleasant way to still be associated with Disney. There are whispers, however, that times many have changed. Instead of an honor, the rumors go, some may now feel that “owning” a prime piece of real estate is a perk – even a right. Now that stock options are common place and employing family members peaks the interest of the SEC, many companies are getting creative about ways of compensating key members of their management.

It is possible that shell companies whose purpose is to hide business activities in Orlando might not have faded away with go-go boots, the Space Age and drive-through movies…

 

[SoonerKate]

Little Lake Bryan was originally an employee recreation center with baseball fields, volleyball courts, picnic areas and other amenities available only the Disney cast

Actually, Mickey's Retreat is still there -- it's just not as big as it used to be! It's right across the street from the Chatham Square (CP) apartment program.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Yes the cast recreation area does indeed still exist. Also as far as I know WDW still has its 8000 acres set aside in perpetual conservation. Is there anyplace I can see that story AV?

 

[Another Voice]

Disney orchestrated a swap out through which they could develop the wetlands on property by purchasing the Walker Ranch. These 12,000 acres were “transferred” the to The Nature Conservancy and renamed the 'Disney Wilderness Preserve'. Instead of dealing with environmental issues one at a time (as happened with Disney/MGM Studios, the Crescent Lake/Boardwalk development and Port Orleans/Dixie Landings), Disney sought one massive offset for their entire master plan: Animal Kingdom, Celebration, the All Stars and several proposed commercial and infrastructure projects. I’m sure an Internet search will produce many glowing company publications about the benefit of the arrangement, and perhaps some of the investigate journalism that was published around the same time as well.

If you look at any of the old property Master Plans, you’ll the Conservation Area was composed of a strip of land running down east of World Drive and most of the property south US 192. The Animal Kingdom park sits squarely in the middle of the north section; Celebration now occupies most of the southern section. The only two sections left reserved for the proposed Eastern Gate (if Florida ever gets around to building that highway out there) and some grazing lands which protect “unique” tax arrangements Disney has.

 

[katerkat]

In 1999, Mickey's Retreat was used for Disney lifeguard training. Don't know if it still is.

 

[caseymaureen]

EpcotRanger,
I was trying to remember what the CP buses are called, the company name on the side, do you happen to know?

 

[SoonerKate]

Casey,

They're Dynamic buses.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Did Disney sell the Crossroads property, or do they lease the land to the existing business' ?

 

[EpcotRanger]

Hey glad to see some of the CP's are still out there. And yes they are Dynamic Buses which is owned and operated by Mears Shuttle Serivce.

 

[caseymaureen]

Thanks Kate, and EpcotRanger

 

[safetymom]

Chatham is closing down from June to January.

What's Happening: Consolidation of College Program Housing

Why is this Necessary: Not all College Program Housing is needed from June to January to accommodate our incoming arrivalsw and College Program extensions.

What this Means is: Chatham Square will be closed between June and January. It's Time to Move to Vista!!!

Who will Move to Vista: Chatham square Spring Advantage and previously approved College Program Extensions.

 

[EpcotRanger]

Ok...yes they are closing it from June to January, but lets look at it from a business side. One, they are cutting the amount of CP's Dramtically so that means they need less apartments. Two, why run two complexes when you can have all of them in just one. Three, it is no big deal. Vista is the hub for transportation and many other things.

 

[safetymom]

Just reporting the facts. Chatham apartments are much nicer. My daughter graduated from the CP today. She was in the program for eleven and a half months.

 

[EpcotRanger]

Sorry I didn't mean to sound rude or anything. But congrats to your daughter. I bet she enjoyed the program extensivly. We actually just got a new roommate from Chatham today. Well...cheers

 

[safetymom]

Yes she really enjoyed the program. We are moving to Florida in the next several months and she will go back to work for Disney.

She really wanted Vista before she came down. Now she is glad she got Chatham. I am sure that Disney will make more changes to the CP. Glad she went when she did.