Does This Apply To You?

[snowbunny]

Btrim: I wasn't actually trying to knock SSR, and I know there are people who bought there because they love it. More power to you! But there are also people (like me) who called to buy another resort, and the guide initially tried to get us to buy SSR instead of the resort we really wanted.

Chuck S: We bought in 2005 and our documents do not say only one point transfer is allowed per year. Simple as that. So I think it's a penalty, yes. (And I'm not a commercial renter, we have 175 points. But we've already needed points here and there to complete reservations. This takes away quite a bit of flexibility.)

 

[mydogdrew]

Rentals are a contributing factor to the difficulty securing non-home resort ressies - but not the most significant facor.

1. The non-home booking problem is a snowball, it reinforces the buy where you want to stay theory. I would suggest many 200 pt BWV ROFR contracts were resold as 50's specifically to members who want to use them for std views at BW. My point is over time points migrate to owners who will use them at the home resort.
2. Casual renters are disappointed in the $10 rule for rentals and have turned to renting reservations rather than points. You don't have to go to ebay to get $13 per point for prime week.

More owners are booking inside their 8-11 month window for their home resort (either for themselves or for rentals). Perhaps a few will get singled out as abusers - I just don't think it will have any impact on the renting. It may become more difficult to get points transferred to your account for the purpose of re-selling them but how many are actually doing this?

 

[Anjelica]

Nah. You write a little webcrawler that logs listings. Peice o' cake. My husband has one watching eBay right now for people defrauding his company with a similar deal (they don't sell to resellers, so when they get one, they shut them down). When you see a pattern on eBay, you send them a cease and disist with your policy of not allowing (in his case resales, in this case) rental for profit and eBay folds like a cheap suit and pulls the listing.

Many people think its a "huge" deal and take lots of time/money for this type of automation tracking to be put in place but in all reality most technically skilled folks can do so in a matter of days.

Thats really why I don't understand why Disney hasn't "fixed" the points being transferred from "morphing" into different resort points. Sure they have 100,000+ DVC members but sheesh - I work on projects and systems were we have 1 million plus members/customers and it certainly wouldn't take an arm and a leg to put something in place to automate "tagging" those points transferred.

Trust me folks - DVC has only been around since the early nineties - their systems are no were near as old or complicated as those from the 70's/80's - it wouldn't be much time/effort for them to "fix" this "morphing" issue.

 

[rinkwide]

...it wouldn't be much time/effort for them to "fix" this "morphing" issue.

But if they did what excuse would they have to restrict transfers and discourage renting?

 

[LisaS]

Trust me folks - DVC has only been around since the early nineties - their systems are no were near as old or complicated as those from the 70's/80's - it wouldn't be much time/effort for them to "fix" this "morphing" issue.

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard the phrase "it shouldn't take long to implement this change, right?" I would have enough money to buy that VAKL add-on I'm dreaming about!

 

[crisi]

Many people think its a "huge" deal and take lots of time/money for this type of automation tracking to be put in place but in all reality most technically skilled folks can do so in a matter of days.

Thats really why I don't understand why Disney hasn't "fixed" the points being transferred from "morphing" into different resort points. Sure they have 100,000+ DVC members but sheesh - I work on projects and systems were we have 1 million plus members/customers and it certainly wouldn't take an arm and a leg to put something in place to automate "tagging" those points transferred.

Trust me folks - DVC has only been around since the early nineties - their systems are no were near as old or complicated as those from the 70's/80's - it wouldn't be much time/effort for them to "fix" this "morphing" issue.

I do IT project management. In my experience, creating a web crawler that logs and sends off a daily email, throws information into a little database, and spits out a report of every eBay renter that has rented over 3 times in as many months is easy - a few days of work for one scripter. Changing an existing production enterprise reservation system probably developed ten years ago is hard, time consuming, and expensive. I think it will be done, but the web crawler is an easier project.

 

[greenban]

I don't know much. But if the DVC computer system is a relational database, it is minimal work to create a linked child database to keep tract of the transfered points original Home Resort and Original Use Year.

SQL or similar database is no major problem.

However, if this is hard coded FORTRAN or COBOL, or non-relational database, the costs/changes *could* be significant.

But if they are using a database software system, then there is NO EXCUSE for this loophole!

I expect sadly, this is a custom, kludged monster of a program.

JMHO, YRMV.

-Tony

Frog Rule, Humans Drool!

 

[dianeschlicht]

I don't know much. But if the DVC computer system is a relational database, it is minimal work to create a linked child database to keep tract of the transfered points original Home Resort and Original Use Year.

SQL or similar database is no major problem.

However, if this is hard coded FORTRAN or COBOL, or non-relational database, the costs/changes *could* be significant.

But if they are using a database software system, then there is NO EXCUSE for this loophole!

I expect sadly, this is a custom, kludged monster of a program.

JMHO, YRMV.

-Tony

Frog Rule, Humans Drool!

I think you're right Tony, and I think the person who designed it didn't know ALL of the rules!

 

[Anjelica]

I do IT project management. In my experience, creating a web crawler that logs and sends off a daily email, throws information into a little database, and spits out a report of every eBay renter that has rented over 3 times in as many months is easy - a few days of work for one scripter. Changing an existing production enterprise reservation system probably developed ten years ago is hard, time consuming, and expensive. I think it will be done, but the web crawler is an easier project.

I actually work in designing/building out Internet infrastructures for my company. We are constantly having to update/morph our systems to meet FCC, federal and state guidelines, etc. Additionally, we are in intense competition with our competitiors and therefore have to be quick in terms of turn around time in offering new technologies/abilities through our systems. Doing all of this while using backend customer information/systems, some that are over 30 years old (and no we don't have an army of folks doing this).

Thats why I keep saying I have no clue why this problem of morphing points can't be fixed with a few good designs and programmers who know what they are doing.

 

[crisi]

Thats why I keep saying I have no clue why this problem of morphing points can't be fixed with a few good designs and programmers who know what they are doing.

Probably as much internal buerocracy regarding project approval and project planning as the technical needs. I've always gotten the feeling that DVC is the poor stepchild when it comes to getting funding for support services (like IT). If Disney has projects that they think will provide more value - it doesn't get fixed. And if it isn't a big enough issue to make money or save money, or if there are cheaper wasy to do the job (like policy) the change may never get approved.

 

[Anjelica]

Probably as much internal buerocracy regarding project approval and project planning as the technical needs. I've always gotten the feeling that DVC is the poor stepchild when it comes to getting funding for support services (like IT). If Disney has projects that they think will provide more value - it doesn't get fixed. And if it isn't a big enough issue to make money or save money, or if there are cheaper wasy to do the job (like policy) the change may never get approved.

but true.......we can always hope though....

 

[LisaS]

I don't know much. But if the DVC computer system is a relational database, it is minimal work to create a linked child database to keep tract of the transfered points original Home Resort and Original Use Year.

SQL or similar database is no major problem.

When it comes to making changes like this, the database changes are usually the easy part. They will have to change the software that MS uses to handle point transfers and the s/w they use to make reservations. If you have other programs that use the database (for ex, database backup procedures) you need to change those too so that they know about the new tables. Who knows what other applications Disney uses to track point usage or generate other statistics, so those may have to be updated as well. And if the developer(s) who will be implementing the changes is not already intimately familiar with the internals of the application, you need to add in time for them to come up to speed.

Speaking from years of experience as a software engineer, project leader and project manager I learned the hard way that almost nothing ever turns out to be as easy as it first appears. Yes, sometimes you get lucky but most of the time there are lots of ripple effects that can really add up.

 

[LisaS]

Probably as much internal buerocracy regarding project approval and project planning as the technical needs.

In particularly bureaucratic situations, I've seen little projects that required 5 days of development and testing time become 5-week projects once all the groups involved added in time for their organization to verify personally that the changes met their expectations.

Considering Disney has outsourced a lot of their IT work, who knows how many layers of management there are between the single software developer doing the work and MS who would use the new software.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Probably as much internal buerocracy regarding project approval and project planning as the technical needs. I've always gotten the feeling that DVC is the poor stepchild when it comes to getting funding for support services (like IT). If Disney has projects that they think will provide more value - it doesn't get fixed. And if it isn't a big enough issue to make money or save money, or if there are cheaper wasy to do the job (like policy) the change may never get approved.

I agree, I think the policy change was cheaper than the programming. Look how long it took to get online viewing of reservations and contracts. It is not even interactive, but a huge leap for DVC.

 

[Deb & Bill]

If you haven't been to DL recently, you would be floored at how backwards the hotels are there. At WDW, you can use your room ID for your tickets for the dining plan, to charge to your room. At DL all you can do is use it for a room key and later as a luggage tag. How backwards is that?

I think they seriously need some good IT people to resolve the issues and still limit transfers (maybe not one in or out a year, but some limitation on it).

 

[rinkwide]

...I've always gotten the feeling that DVC is the poor stepchild when it comes to getting funding for support services (like IT)...

Why would that be? DVC was the shining star that led the parks division through it's darkest post-9/11 days. Even today, it's likely their most consistently profitable division in terms of maintained margin.

Underfunding isn't an acceptable excuse.

 

[crisi]

Why would that be? DVC was the shining star that led the parks division through it's darkest post-9/11 days. Even today, it's likely their most consistently profitable division in terms of maintained margin.

Underfunding isn't an acceptable excuse.

Because once the initial investment is made, their isn't ROI in improving the systems around them nor a regulatory reason to do so. DVC makes their money selling the original points. So the investment is going to go there. And backend systems don't sell points - what sells points is nice resorts and marketing - unless its SO horrible its creating a repuation problem - but I don't think the case can be made that this problem is that bad. They CAN'T get higher than average return on a DVC investment in systems - because DVCs profits are controlled once the original point purchase is made.

(As a DVC owner, I'd love to see these changes made. If I were DVC management, I'd fight for them. If I were a Disney management accountant, it would never get funded. And the management accountant has to buy into funding the project.)

And, as was said, Disney has outsourced a LOT of their IT. IME, that means additional layers of approval and justification to get anything done.

 

[I Love DVC]

Also while you are pondering what Chuck S posted check out this link. It seems this person is getting RAVE reviews renting out our vacation slots for profit. He has around $5,000 worth of trips for rent right now also. These are the bad apples Disney needs to throw out of the barrell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The following ebayer is more active than the other one, but they all have in common that they only book the cheaper week nights, so they have more points available to book more weeks. Go to this site and click on the seller's name so you can see past transactions too.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZboardwalkmagicQQhtZ-1

This person has had 22 satisfied customers in the last 12 months!!!!!!!

Wow, this person is selling for way more than the usual rental price of $10 per point.

 

[FreeTime]

From an IT standpoint I agree that it should be an easy fix, but if it is like where I work at once every involved group gets their hands in it, the project will be many, many months to completion.

I think that Disney is just making an implied threat and will not follow through with it. There may be a simpler way to do it but then none of us could allow family and friends use our points unless we were with them. DVC could require that when checking in someone have an ID listing the address on the contract. I think this approach would make members angrier than continuing to allow renting as you couldn't just give a room to your sister for her honeymoon, etc.

Just my $.02.

 

[crisi]

From an IT standpoint I agree that it should be an easy fix, but if it is like where I work at once every involved group gets their hands in it, the project will be many, many months to completion.

I think that Disney is just making an implied threat and will not follow through with it. There may be a simpler way to do it but then none of us could allow family and friends use our points unless we were with them. DVC could require that when checking in someone have an ID listing the address on the contract. I think this approach would make members angrier than continuing to allow renting as you couldn't just give a room to your sister for her honeymoon, etc.

Just my $.02.

Nah, they datamine for a pattern of people other than the member (or having the member's last name) staying in the room. So, lets say Joe Doe has 1500 points. He makes reservations for people named Smith, Johnson, Phillips, Giambi, Keller, and O'Day - and one week for Joe Doe. Several of these initially start in his name, but the name on the reservation is later changed. Now, either Joe is a really generous guy, not having his friends and relatives pay him for all these reservations, or Joe is in the rental business. (The third possibility exists - the Joe uses his DVC membership as a business perk and all these people are his employees or customers).

Jane Smith has 1500 points. Every year the Johnson family uses her points for a week, and Jane and her family go. Once in a while, a third surname shows up on a reservation - maybe a honeymoon gift for someone, maybe casual rental - Disney doesn't really care. Its a "safe enough" bet that Jane and the Johnsons are sharing a contract in some fashion. This is the casual rental and sharing points with family that Disney doesn't mind.

I think its a bluff - but if they do impliment it, Jane will be safe where Joe may find his reservations cancelled - but probably not without Disney send Joe a letter or two first.

(I think its far more likely Disney just has eBay shut down these people - and possibly sends a letter to this site as well).