Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[Amymouse13]

I think David's is in for a whole of problems.

I think this situation is more akin to landlord (Disney), renter (dvc owner), and subletter (point renter). Landlord's house burns down, does the subletter still have to pay? Is the renter really liable?

 

[Disneykate605]

I have 2 sets of renters at Disney now on rented points thru David’s. Both are leaving before the resorts close on the 20th - one on the 18th and one on the 19th. Neither of these reservations have been cancelled as far as I know - I have not heard anything from David’s or gotten any notifications or points back from dvc. I hate that things have happened this way, but the renters were able to stay at Disney for their whole stays.

I also had a rental scheduled for the 15th- 17th. I reached out to David's on Friday and Sunday. I was assuming since no one had contacted me that the renter was going (which would have been the best case scenario) but after reaching out to David's again I found out they wanted to cancel. Not sure when anyone was going to let me know. I'm glad I did call David's...at least now I have options to help the renter but if I had not reached out I'm not sure I would have heard from David's and then the points would not have been salvageable.
I hope your renters checked in and had a good time!

 

[Disneykate605]

They said they were busy and would try to pay me in the next few days. I told them no way. I upheld my end of the bargain and they needed to uphold theirs. They eventually did pay, after I pitched a fit. It probably also helped that I have let them rent out alot of points for me over the last few years and told them they wouldn’t get another point from me unless they paid me

My renters all check out before the resorts close, so they are not being affected by the resorts closing.

And, I would have gladly worked with any renter to reschedule, but was not asked to. They can’t have my points and my money too

When I emailed David's back to say the reservation was cancelled and I received my points back and I was awaiting instructions on the next step I mentioned that I had not received my 30% payment. I said I was ok with that while we were working thru this mess but it was expected eventually AND I was just mentioning it to be sure it was in writing. I received the payment a few hours later.

 

[rchristiansen]

Good News! Just heard from David’s that we can rebook in August.

 

[Sandisw]

That is immaterial to the contract the owner signed with David's. They must pay for the entire reservation, since it was not cancelled by the owner, nor apparently requested to be cancelled by David's.

So, the fact that the owners contract with David’s doesn’t say no refunds, and doesn’t have that language about negligence...thst is only in the renters contract...it absolves owners of David’s enforcing the restitution clause that is in the owners contract?

I guess I wrongly assumed I am bound by the terms of my contract, not the renters.

 

[sndral]

So, what you are saying is that the clause in the renters contract with David, supersedes the clause in my contract with David’s?

If that is true, it’s good to know that I can’t be held to what i signed.

No - I’m saying that you are misinterpreting the specific clause you quoted from your contract as an owner with David’s. The clause you quoted requires you to refund the money if you do something causing a cancelation. It does not apply to a third party’s actions.
But it’s just one clause, I don’t know what the rest of your contract says. I don’t know Florida contract law, assuming that’s the law that applies. I wouldn’t guess at how the renter’s contract would impact you - although unless there’s reference to it in the contract you signed generally it would be irrelevant to your contract.
I don’t rent my points, but I have a visit that was supposed to start 3/30, it includes one time use points that I purchased, I’ll be scrambling to rebook my own vacation before the end of my use year when my points expire. If I can’t rebook I’ll end up having paid MF on a lot of points I couldn’t use and wasted money buying those one time use points. I’d try to rebook for a renter if I had rented my points out because, to me, morally, it would be the right thing to do. There are times when the letter of the law is less important than just doing the right thing IMO.

 

[Sandisw]

No - I’m saying that you are misinterpreting the specific clause you quoted from your contract as an owner with David’s. The clause you quoted requires you to refund the money if you do something causing a cancelation. It does not apply to a third party’s actions.
But it’s just one clause, I don’t know what the rest of your contract says. I don’t know Florida contract law, assuming that’s the law that applies. I wouldn’t guess at how the renter’s contract would impact you - although unless there’s reference to it in the contract you signed generally it would be irrelevant to your contract.
I don’t rent my points, but I have a visit that was supposed to start 3/30, it includes one time use points that I purchased, I’ll be scrambling to rebook my own vacation before the end of my use year when my points expire. If I can’t rebook I’ll end up having paid MF on a lot of points I couldn’t use and wasted money buying those one time use points. I’d try to rebook for a renter if I had rented my points out because, to me, morally, it would be the right thing to do. There are times when the letter of the law is less important than just doing the right thing IMO.

This is where I am still confused, I guess, and really trying to understand, but the language in the owners contract, does not say anywhere that I only have to do it if I am at fault.

It just says if I can’t deliver the room. What specific language from my contract would be implied in that statement.

That’s what I am struggling to understand becsuse the renters contract definitely says the specific actions of the owner that trigger the refund,
I
The owners contract does not. Of course, I would always work with a renter if I could, but still want to know my legal aspects since I sIgned something with one understanding and being told that I may not have it correct

 

[MICKIMINI]

Good News! Just heard from David’s that we can rebook in August.

See, things did work out. It's been a mess but people are trying to help during a crisis. I'm glad for your family!

 

[Maddiesmum03]

This is where I am still confused, I guess, and really trying to understand, but the language in the owners contract, does not say anywhere that I only have to do it if I am at fault.

It just says if I can’t deliver the room. What specific language from my contract would be implied in that statement.

That’s what I am struggling to understand becsuse the renters contract definitely says the specific actions of the owner that trigger the refund,
I
The owners contract does not. Of course, I would always work with a renter if I could, but still want to know my legal aspects since I sIgned something with one understanding and being told that I may not have it correct

I have re read my own owner contract a few times now, but still cannot see where it says if Disney close the resort, I have to return the money. Only if I break the contract by my own actions or lack of them. David’s must interpret it the same way, otherwise they would be demanding the money back. But they are not, they asked IF I could return the money, or work with the renters to reschedule another booking. I am going with the other booking as I am not in a position to return the money anyhow.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

So, the fact that the owners contract with David’s doesn’t say no refunds, and doesn’t have that language about negligence...thst is only in the renters contract...it absolves owners of David’s enforcing the restitution clause that is in the owners contract?

I guess I wrongly assumed I am bound by the terms of my contract, not the renters.

Sandi, I always appreciate your posts and efforts here on the boards! With that being said, I am of the opinion that you're misinterpreting the "restitution clause" of David's contract with the owners. That clause was designed to prevent an owner from accepting payment for a rental and then running off with the money. Disney's closure of the resorts is in no way a "failure" of the owner to honor/honour (in Davids Canadian terms) the reservation they have made for the renter. The owner did everything they were legally bound by the contract to do and the renters no longer have a reservation due to a third party, Disney, closing the resorts. David protected himself with the "no refunds" clause in his contract with the renters. What you are seeing from him now is posturing to protect his future business. The fact that he is working with the renters is GREAT, but it is not legally required; nor is it legally required for any owner to reimburse Davids for any reservations that were not cancelled as a result of some affirmative act of failure by the owner or owner negligence with regard to the other parameters within the four corners of the contract. I will add that I'm not familiar with any nuances of Ontario or Canadian contract law or anomalies as it relates to parties within the US.

 

[Sandisw]

Sandi, I always appreciate your posts and efforts here on the boards! With that being said, I am of the opinion that you're misinterpreting the "restitution clause" of David's contract with the owners. That clause was designed to prevent an owner from accepting payment for a rental and then running off with the money. Disney's closure of the resorts is in no way a "failure" of the owner to honor/honour (in Davids Canadian terms) the reservation they have made for the renter. The owner did everything they were legally bound by the contract to do and the renters no longer have a reservation due to a third party, Disney, closing the resorts. David protected himself with the "no refunds" clause in his contract with the renters. What you are seeing from him now is posturing to protect his future business. The fact that he is working with the renters is GREAT, but it is not legally required; nor is it legally required for any owner to reimburse Davids for any reservations that were not cancelled as a result of some affirmative act of failure by the owner or owner negligence with regard to the other parameters within the four corners of the contract. I will add that I'm not familiar with any nuances of Ontario or Canadian contract law or anomalies as it relates to parties within the US.

Thanks. It’s why I keep asking questions because I really like to understand things and it’s still not making sense to me that I can’t be held to that by David’s.

This is more for me so if I decide to rent again, I want to be clear what can and can not happen, regardless of what I might do in trying to help a renter,

Sounds like from the posters who keep correcting me is thst legally, it is implied in that clause, even though it’s not explicitly stated, that its meant to be fault on my part.

The other aspect is thst is says you get the 30% at check in. Again, if there is no check in, then because it’s not through my fault, I’d still expect that to be paid.

 

[Sandisw]

I have re read my own owner contract a few times now, but still cannot see where it says if Disney close the resort, I have to return the money. Only if I break the contract by my own actions or lack of them. David’s must interpret it the same way, otherwise they would be demanding the money back. But they are not, they asked IF I could return the money, or work with the renters to reschedule another booking. I am going with the other booking as I am not in a position to return the money anyhow.

That’s why it confuses me, because you are right, it doesn’t say we are required if Disney closes. it just says if we can’t deliver the room, we owe it.

It’s why I have always assumed that meant that any reason would kick in that clause and now it seems it’s implied thst it must be my fault.

As you said, David’s message seems to indicate he is working with owners to either reschedule, refund, or re-rent points. But it also doesn’t say that an owner can refuse all of those options and just keep money, but maybe that is implied as well.

After all of this, I will be sure I get it clarified directly from him in a few months when this dies down so I know whether or not I want to do it again,

I ask a lot of questions, especially when I have the wrong understanding and certainly don’t want to promote wrong info either! So , I appreciate the time others are taking to help me to understand..and maybe I never will.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

Thanks. It’s why I keep asking questions because I really like to understand things and it’s still not making sense to me that I can’t be held to that by David’s.

This is more for me so if I decide to rent again, I want to be clear what can and can not happen, regardless of what I might do in trying to help a renter,

Sounds like from the posters who keep correcting me is thst legally, it is implied in that clause, even though it’s not explicitly stated, that its meant to be fault on my part.

The other aspect is thst is says you get the 30% at check in. Again, if there is no check in, then because it’s not through my fault, I’d still expect that to be paid.

I completely understand. I would draw your attention to your previous post of paragraph 7 where it does state owner "failure" as the reason for reimbursement.

Also, I'm of the legal opinion, that failure by David's to pay the 30% to the owners would be a breach of contract as it's written.

What's legally required here is very much different than what's morally/ethically required. I always treat any reservation for a renter as if it was my own and would certainly try to help in anyway that I could.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

Thanks. It’s why I keep asking questions because I really like to understand things and it’s still not making sense to me that I can’t be held to that by David’s.

This is more for me so if I decide to rent again, I want to be clear what can and can not happen, regardless of what I might do in trying to help a renter,

Sounds like from the posters who keep correcting me is thst legally, it is implied in that clause, even though it’s not explicitly stated, that its meant to be fault on my part.

The other aspect is thst is says you get the 30% at check in. Again, if there is no check in, then because it’s not through my fault, I’d still expect that to be paid.

Sandi.....I can confirm I am not yet in receipt of the 30% from the rental due to start yesterday. The booking was automatically cancelled by Disney, I did not cancel it and so I did not forfeit my contract. have let David’s know that I can reschedule for the renters and have also asked when I can expect the remaining money. I will let you know their response

 

[Lewisc]

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/...ferent-coronavirus-cancellation-policies.htmlInteresting comparison. airbnb customers are getting refunds. Owners aren't happy. vrbo is encouraging owners to work with customers. Renters aren't happy. In many cases the renter at least has the option of keeping the reservation.

DVC is different, at least for the rest of the March. Renters don't have the option of taking the trip.

 

[Sandisw]

Sandi.....I can confirm I am not yet in receipt of the 30% from the rental due to start yesterday. The booking was automatically cancelled by Disney, I did not cancel it and so I did not forfeit my contract. have let David’s know that I can reschedule for the renters and have also asked when I can expect the remaining money. I will let you know their response

Thanks so much! It will be good to see how things actually happen.

I will add that I really can’t imagine how this won’t hit the rental market hard,

As a renter if you aren’t even due a refund or a rescheduling for something like this, and most insurances are going to cover it, I would think less people will be willing to take the risk.

 

[Sandisw]

I completely understand. I would draw your attention to your previous post of paragraph 7 where it does state owner "failure" as the reason for reimbursement.

Also, I'm of the legal opinion, that failure by David's to pay the 30% to the owners would be a breach of contract as it's written.

What's legally required here is very much different than what's morally/ethically required. I always treat any reservation for a renter as if it was my own and would certainly try to help in anyway that I could.

I agree, but it also could impact what points one might consider renting because if you have some obligation vs none, it might play a role on which ones are offered,

Thanks for helping me...like I said, renters contract is more specific than owners and that is why I believed, apparently incorrectly, that I had to at least provide some remedy if I couldn’t deliver, even if out of my control.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

Wow, some people sound greedy. If you get your points back why wouldnt you refund or reschedule for renter. That would be the decent thing to do. That just seems wrong. If Disney does right by the owner you should also follow suit. Even with insurance it doesnt cover a pandemic and cancel for any reason has not been available for weeks.

Could not agree more.
If I could still make use of the points I surely would not keep the renters money.

Now if i couldn't use the points then it's a different story

 

[fsjking]

Just a curiosity on the legal side, but how exactly are timeshares set up? Mainly I'm wondering if the owners of the timeshares are considered owners of the resort, and if Disney is acting on their behalf? In that case, would the DVC owners be considered responsible for the resort closing through their agent(Disney)?

 

[Cyberc1978]

Wow, some people sound greedy. If you get your points back why wouldnt you refund or reschedule for renter. That would be the decent thing to do. That just seems wrong. If Disney does right by the owner you should also follow suit. Even with insurance it doesnt cover a pandemic and cancel for any reason has not been available for weeks.

If I get my expiring points back which I then are unable to use due to them expiring how is that greedy if I don’t refund my renter?