Does Anyone Remember Disney Before Fast Pass Existed?

[diskev]

That's a pretty unusual thing. I suppose that if DHS was open late then sure, you could get 3 FPs for one ride. Did you get FPs for any other attractions? You could ride TSMM more than twice, but you would have to do standby twice. The vast majority of people really don't feel the need to ride the same thing more than twice. But that's a personal decision. I rode EE 14 times in a row...about 90 mins prior to parl closing, in the drizzle. The park had emptied due to the rain. My friend and I just kept walking around and getting back on. Why? Just because we could. Wasn't that we love the ride so much....truth be told, I was pretty much bored after the 7th time! But how many times would we get that chance. And it had nothing to do with FPs.

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree on this subject. The new system will work for many guests, while it won't allow other guests to tour the way they are used to touring.

Not unusual, and in fact really simple. Key words are "rope drop". Arrive at HS for Rope Drop, head straight to TSSM. I go ahead, and let the rest of the family catch up, by the time they get there I've pulled FP for the first available time, and am ready to jump in stand by with them ... we ride stand by, we get off, we ride FP, and pull more FP. That's two FP for TSMM within the first hour or so. Head off and do other things and swing back by for a third FP. It was incredibly simple.

I will agree that the new system will work for some guests. I will never be the guest that's happy to spend more money than I did last time, to do significantly less than I did last time. If you never did much before (which seems to be the case for those that love FP+) then not doing much now isn't a change.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

That doesn't really work since the timeframe is still the same. There may be more options, but you're not getting more hours in Disney parks for twice the price. It's still three days of park visiting.

But in 2014 you have access to 4 parks rather than 2. When a business adds additional products/services the price of said products/services increases.

Conversley - $368/3 days = $122.66/4 parks = $30.67 and $174/3 days = $58/2 parks = $29....so the cost of admission "per day, per park" is not dramatically different over the same length of ticket.

 

[pieface]

First trip to Disney was 1972 we used ticket books back than and had to buy extra e tickets. No fast pass back than but you didn't have the huge crowds like now it was very pleasant. I liked the old fast pass system it worked well. Tried the new system hate I don't like to sit down and plan my entire vacation before I go I like to fly by the seat of my pants.

 

[jrtoastyman]

The thing that stands out most to me is how my love for Disney started, and continued to grow, while waiting in long lines for just about every ride.

I hadn't really thought about it in a long time, but this is absolutely right. We'd study the unofficial guide before the trip and follow our touring plan, but lines were (and are) an inevitable part of the experience no matter what you did. Lots of great family bonding time:

1. Trying to avoid lines or guess which line would be shortest
2. Playing games in line
3. Talking in line
4. Talking with other families in line
5. Planning our next steps while in line
6. Etc.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that we enjoyed when we had to stand in a long line, but when there's no alternative, there was definitely something to be said for sharing the right of passage that is standing in line for an hour for something with your family and friends. Lots of good memories!

 

[dwheaton]

But in 2014 you have access to 4 parks rather than 2. When a business adds additional products/services the price of said products/services increases.

Conversley - $368/3 days = $122.66/4 parks = $30.67 and $174/3 days = $58/2 parks = $29....so the cost of admission "per day, per park" is not dramatically different over the same length of ticket.

I can see your point. However, I'm still stuck on the idea that you can't be in two parks at one time. The analogy I'd use is McDonalds. If they add more menu items and give you other choices (salads, desserts, etc.), they don't double the price of the hamburger.

I know that it's not a perfect analogy, and I can see the point in the price being higher than inflation, but most people aren't doing four parks in one day.

 

[mom2rtk]

I've hopped to all 4 parks in one day. Additional parks increases ticket prices - access to 4 is greater than access to 2 and therefore costs more.

You still can't be in 2 places at once.

So if someone pulled out the price of a one day single park ticket, it would not show a similar jump?

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

You still can't be in 2 places at once.

So if someone pulled out the price of a one day single park ticket, it would not show a similar jump?

No you can't but in 2014 you CAN hop to 4 parks whereas in 1986 you could only hop between two.

Again, in 1986 a 1 day admission granted you access to one of two parks - now it grands you access to 1 of 4.

A ticket to Disneyland (1 park) in 1981 was $10.75 and a 1 day pass to WDW (1 park) was $9.50.

In 1982 When Epcot opened WDW single day tickets increased to $15 whereas Disneyland was $12

Price increases are about much more than inflation - they are about supply and demand as well as added value and added cost.

The ticket prices have very little to do with the amount of time a guest has to use them and more to do with what a guest is getting access to. Even if you are buying a 1 day, no hopping, pass - Disney still has 4 parks and therefore their costs have risen and demand has increased therefore prices will increase.

 

[KilroyWasHere]

I can see your point. However, I'm still stuck on the idea that you can't be in two parks at one time. The analogy I'd use is McDonalds. If they add more menu items and give you other choices (salads, desserts, etc.), they don't double the price of the hamburger.

I know that it's not a perfect analogy, and I can see the point in the price being higher than inflation, but most people aren't doing four parks in one day.

Wouldn't a better analogy be adding more items to a buffet? The price goes up but most people can't eat everything offered.

Disney can't price their tickets based on everyone's individual plans. They can only offer you the options and let you decide what is best. If they are offering more availability, they have to increase cost.

 

[KilroyWasHere]

You still can't be in 2 places at once.

So if someone pulled out the price of a one day single park ticket, it would not show a similar jump?

Great question! I wonder what the difference would be?

 

[TreeSapp]

I can see your point. However, I'm still stuck on the idea that you can't be in two parks at one time. The analogy I'd use is McDonalds. If they add more menu items and give you other choices (salads, desserts, etc.), they don't double the price of the hamburger.

I know that it's not a perfect analogy, and I can see the point in the price being higher than inflation, but most people aren't doing four parks in one day.

They actually do have to increase prices in a restaurant each time they increase the menu. Especially in fast food. More storage, more varied deliveries, more waste (cause you need to over order each thing), more training for employees in how to handle each food, etc. It may not be DOUBLE, but more. Still It's not very common for any fast food establishment to double their menu. Same deal with a buffet (as another poster said) expanding the selection doesn't increase how much most people eat, but it does raise the overall cost to the restaurant to provide it

 

[TreeSapp]

Great question! I wonder what the difference would be?

http://allears.net/tix/tixincrease.htm
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Highest ticket price in 1986: $26.00
Adjusted for inflation: $55.26
2013 1day ticket price: $95.00 (so a little less than double)

 

[TreeSapp]

Disney World annual attendance in 1986: 23.9 million between the two parks
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...180065_1_walt-disney-magic-kingdom-attendance

Disney World annual attendance in 2011: 47.4 million across the 4 parks
http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201205/3073/

By these numbers it may seem that since attendance as double with the double in number of parks, that the cost should remain steady, but the number of attractions provided has certainly changed/increased over the last 30 years as well

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Great question! I wonder what the difference would be?

Because I am a total nerd I looked at AllEars Historical Price Increases and figured out the percentage increase BY YEAR

YEAR INCREASE
71 - 72 7%
72 - 73 12%
73 - 74 17%
74 - 75 15%
75 - 76 N/A
76 - 77 N/A
77- 78 8%
78 - 79 8%
79 - 80 15%
80 - 81 19%

AVG 10.10%

YEAR INCREASE
81 - 82 58%
82 - 83 14%
83 - 84 N/A
84 - 85 15%
85 - 86 18%
86 - 87 22%
87 - 88 N/A
88 - 89 3.50%
89 - 90 6%
90 - 91 6%

AVG 14.25%

YEAR INCREASE
91 - 92 3.50%
92 - 93 3%
93 - 94 3%
94 - 95 3%
95 - 96 3.50%
96 - 97 3%
97 - 98 5.50%
98 - 99 5%
99 - 00 5%
00 - 01 5%

AVG 3.95%

YEAR INCREASE
01 to 02 4.50%
02 to 03 4%
03 to 04 5%
04 to 05 9.50%
05 to 06 5.50%
06 to 07 6%
07 to 08 6%
08 to 09 5%
09 to 10 4%
10 to 11 3.50%

AVG 5.30%

YEAR INCREASE
11 to 12 5%
12 to 13 1.50% 6.5% MK
13 to 14 6% 5% MK

There is no question that these increases represent more than inflation - but wow! Look at the 58% increase when Epcot opened!! The percentage increase average in the 80's was over 14%, in the 70s in was 10%, in the 90s it was the lowest near 4% and currently it averages just over 5%.

And FYI - inflation rates were MUCH higher in the 70's and 80's - reaching 10 to 11% at times! http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation-rate/usa-historical-inflation-rate?start-year=1971&end-year=2014

 

[KilroyWasHere]

Because I am a total nerd I looked at AllEars Historical Price Increases and figured out the percentage increase BY YEAR

YEAR INCREASE
71 - 72 7%
72 - 73 12%
73 - 74 17%
74 - 75 15%
75 - 76 N/A
76 - 77 N/A
77- 78 8%
78 - 79 8%
79 - 80 15%
80 - 81 19%

AVG 10.10%

YEAR INCREASE
81 - 82 58%
82 - 83 14%
83 - 84 N/A
84 - 85 15%
85 - 86 18%
86 - 87 22%
87 - 88 N/A
88 - 89 3.50%
89 - 90 6%
90 - 91 6%

AVG 14.25%

YEAR INCREASE
91 - 92 3.50%
92 - 93 3%
93 - 94 3%
94 - 95 3%
95 - 96 3.50%
96 - 97 3%
97 - 98 5.50%
98 - 99 5%
99 - 00 5%
00 - 01 5%

AVG 3.95%

YEAR INCREASE
01 to 02 4.50%
02 to 03 4%
03 to 04 5%
04 to 05 9.50%
05 to 06 5.50%
06 to 07 6%
07 to 08 6%
08 to 09 5%
09 to 10 4%
10 to 11 3.50%

AVG 5.30%

YEAR INCREASE
11 to 12 5%
12 to 13 1.50% 6.5% MK
13 to 14 6% 5% MK

There is no question that these increases represent more than inflation - but wow! Look at the 58% increase when Epcot opened!! The percentage increase average in the 80's was over 14%, in the 70s in was 10%, in the 90s it was the lowest near 4% and currently it averages just over 5%.

And FYI - inflation rates were MUCH higher in the 70's and 80's - reaching 10 to 11% at times! http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation-rate/usa-historical-inflation-rate?start-year=1971&end-year=2014

So a large portion of the increase in price correlates directly with the EPCOT opening...

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

So a large portion of the increase in price correlates directly with the EPCOT opening...

Yup. Epcot's budget was $600 million (in 1980-1982 dollars) and it's final cost was estimated at $1.4 billion, which is $3.6 billion now.

 

[TreeSapp]

Because I am a total nerd I looked at AllEars Historical Price Increases and figured out the percentage increase BY YEAR

YEAR INCREASE
71 - 72 7%
72 - 73 12%
73 - 74 17%
74 - 75 15%
75 - 76 N/A
76 - 77 N/A
77- 78 8%
78 - 79 8%
79 - 80 15%
80 - 81 19%

AVG 10.10%

YEAR INCREASE
81 - 82 58%
82 - 83 14%
83 - 84 N/A
84 - 85 15%
85 - 86 18%
86 - 87 22%
87 - 88 N/A
88 - 89 3.50%
89 - 90 6%
90 - 91 6%

AVG 14.25%

YEAR INCREASE
91 - 92 3.50%
92 - 93 3%
93 - 94 3%
94 - 95 3%
95 - 96 3.50%
96 - 97 3%
97 - 98 5.50%
98 - 99 5%
99 - 00 5%
00 - 01 5%

AVG 3.95%

YEAR INCREASE
01 to 02 4.50%
02 to 03 4%
03 to 04 5%
04 to 05 9.50%
05 to 06 5.50%
06 to 07 6%
07 to 08 6%
08 to 09 5%
09 to 10 4%
10 to 11 3.50%

AVG 5.30%

YEAR INCREASE
11 to 12 5%
12 to 13 1.50% 6.5% MK
13 to 14 6% 5% MK

There is no question that these increases represent more than inflation - but wow! Look at the 58% increase when Epcot opened!! The percentage increase average in the 80's was over 14%, in the 70s in was 10%, in the 90s it was the lowest near 4% and currently it averages just over 5%.

And FYI - inflation rates were MUCH higher in the 70's and 80's - reaching 10 to 11% at times! http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation-rate/usa-historical-inflation-rate?start-year=1971&end-year=2014

Sorry, but that 58% increase in 1982 is a result of no longer using ticket booklets - it represents the changeover in cost to unlimited rides

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Sorry, but that 58% increase in 1982 is a result of no longer using ticket booklets - it represents the changeover in cost to unlimited rides

Still seems rather high to me and coincidental given that Epcot was WAY over budget. Plus you can see throughout the 80's that increases remained in the teens, up until 88-89 and 89-90.

 

[TreeSapp]

Still seems rather high to me and coincidental given that Epcot was WAY over budget. Plus you can see throughout the 80's that increases remained in the teens, up until 88-89 and 89-90.

http://allears.net/tix/tixpix80.htm

The high percentage change seems to be more or less trying to balance out their loses by removing the pay-to-ride system

At the end of 1981 an adult ticket was $9.50 plus another $9.50 to ride 8 rides. ($19 total)

Suddenly in 1982 it's $15 to enter and ride 8 (or more) rides. So it's actually a price decrease (of 21%) if you weren't splitting a book among family members.

The Cost doesn't rise back up over that $19.00 price until 1985.... When it was a whopping $19.50
This is the same point at which this increases drop back into the single digit percentages

Odds are that the bigger price increases over the 80s are more reflective of Disney realizing that people still did their 8 (or more) attractions when given the option of unlimited rides and needed to make up for the difference in park usage expenses. As well as accounting to the extra overhead costs of operation two parks an addition transportation.