Does anyone else feel like a criminal when going through TSA?

[sam_gordon]

All shoes will go through the scanner. How are you getting that only the one pair you are wearing are going through? The bag goes through the x-ray machine.

I get her complaint. She packs two pairs of shoes in her carry on. She wears one pair. Before she gets to the scanner, she takes her shoes off and puts them in her carry on (now she has three pair in the carry on).

The TSA agent asks where her shoes are (because she's barefoot). "In the carry on". The agent says they need to be in a bin by themselves, they can't get scanned in the carry on. She then asks about the other pairs of shoes. "nope, they can stay in the carryon".

So, why is it ok for the shoes in the carry on to STAY in the carry on, but the shoes she wore had to be in a bin by themselves? Either the scanner will pick up whatever through the carry on or it won't.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

that they only cared about checking one pair, when there were 3 pairs in the bag.

I totally got the story.

They still will want to check the shoes you wore. In general when you put your shoes in the bin if too much is concealing them they will ask you to get an additional bin to spread out your items. It's also why each electronic gets its own bin. With more sophisticated machines less and less stuff will have to be removed because the machines themselves can decipher items better although my bet is still needing the shoes you wore to have additional checks or at least until something more sophisticated comes along.

By you putting the very shoes you were wearing inside a bag with other things would make me think something was off with you and I would think that if you were in front of line with me. Like "why is this person not wearing in shoes before getting to the actual detectors?" "What is wrong with them, what's up with them?" I don't say that as a personal thing towards you, I'd think that to everyone. It's abnormal behavior in the context of the situation. Most probably would wonder if you might be homeless or something (being quite real here) depending on your other clothing although going through security might make that seem odd too. Either way it's just not a normal occurrence to see someone without shoes before the actual detectors (sans infants).

I remember right after 9/11 going through Atlanta airport where you didn't remove your shoes at the time but you did put them on a device that checked for them by stepping on it. That wasn't about specially inspecting all your shoes but it was about the ones you were wearing at the time.

They probably could have removed all your shoes and physically inspected them or removed them and had them put through more spaced out but just an average person's thought I would think something is up more from the shoes you were actually wearing before removing them rather than ones already in your carry on.

Now as someone brought up with TSA (which means you don't have to remove your shoes unless told otherwise) while you can still get it randomly selected those who enroll themselves in it (or do Global Entry that comes with it) agree to have background checks, criminal checks and electronic fingerprints among photo taken. Do people up to know good knowingly enroll in a program such as that and still do bad things? Yes they can at least but generally it's going to reduce the chances of you even attempting to do so and once you do you won't be allowed back in.

 

[sam_gordon]

For real. Let's say your local mall wanted to take naked pictures of your minor child as a condition of entry. Would you be okay with that? Let's say that the principal of your child's school insisted on groping their groin before they could walk in the building. Are we good with that? But as soon as it becomes a government entity doing those things, everyone is suddenly fine with it in the name of "security." Well, in a police state, the government gets to make all the rules and the citizens have no choice but to comply, no matter how invasive or intolerable it is. Kinda like TSA, isn't it?

If a business wanted to take naked pictures of me (or my kids) before I entered (AND they made it known it was a condition of entry), I wouldn't utilize that business. And let me say, I don't think the "pictures" TSA "took" were "naked pics", but I'll humor you.

And unless it's a private school, the principal IS a "government entity". But again, I'll humor you and assume you're talking about a private school. If a principal did that (and again, made it known ahead of time that that was a possibility), my kids wouldn't be attending that school.

What you still haven't commented on is why you believe a commercial flight is a RIGHT. Do you not have options OTHER than commercial air? And yes, "flying" IS one of those options.

And I love how you poo poo'd DUI checkpoints and the citizenship stops in SW USA. The citizenship stops are MUCH closer to government overreach IMO than TSA.

 

[JLTraveling]

Now as someone brought up with TSA (which means you don't have to remove your shoes unless told otherwise) while you can still get it randomly selected those who enroll themselves in it (or do Global Entry that comes with it) agree to have background checks, criminal checks and electronic fingerprints among photo taken. Do people up to know good knowingly enroll in a program such as that and still do bad things? Yes they can at least but generally it's going to reduce the chances of you even attempting to do so and once you do you won't be allowed back in.

Which means allowing a shadowy government agency with no oversight to do a deep dive into your entire identity. That's even scarier to me than dealing with them at the airport.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Which means allowing a shadowy government agency with no oversight to do a deep dive into your entire identity. That's even scarier to me than dealing with them at the airport.

If you enroll in TSA you are willingly and knowingly doing it. I just recently did Global Entry, I understood what I was doing and getting my fingerprints for. If i had a direct issue with that I wouldn't enroll in it. TSA is me showing them I'm low risk and it's going to take something for me to be in a long-term program where I don't have to have nearly as much security checks as others who have not been deemed long-term to be low risk.

While my husband also has Global Entry the first time he needed to do fingerprints was actually in 2019 for CA to get a TWIC card as part of his job at power plants. This was a requirement CA had for the particular project. Background check was done as was a photo and as I said fingerprints.

 

[White Cat]

Which means allowing a shadowy government agency with no oversight to do a deep dive into your entire identity. That's even scarier to me than dealing with them at the airport.

What is so scary about dealing with TSA?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

All shoes will go through the scanner. How are you getting that only the one pair you are wearing are going through? The bag goes through the x-ray machine.

Their thought process was what makes the shoes they wore any different than the shoes already packed in their carry on and why didn't they care about the shoes contained within their carry on once they were already mixed.

At least to me I would still bet the shoes the person wore, in the event they deliberately tossed them in with other shoes, would be the more worrisome ones. To me it would read like an act of concealment. The other shoes, I'm betting TSA had the authority to remove and inspect each one individually and the PP could have had this happen to them.

I think the PP would have more of a valid point of thought (not saying they aren't valid for thinking what they think but speaking just from the topic here) if we aren't inspected as closely on our shoes we wear to the airport/just before going through security.

 

[JLTraveling]

If a business wanted to take naked pictures of me (or my kids) before I entered (AND they made it known it was a condition of entry), I wouldn't utilize that business. And let me say, I don't think the "pictures" TSA "took" were "naked pics", but I'll humor you.

And unless it's a private school, the principal IS a "government entity". But again, I'll humor you and assume you're talking about a private school. If a principal did that (and again, made it known ahead of time that that was a possibility), my kids wouldn't be attending that school.

What you still haven't commented on is why you believe a commercial flight is a RIGHT. Do you not have options OTHER than commercial air? And yes, "flying" IS one of those options.

And I love how you poo poo'd DUI checkpoints and the citizenship stops in SW USA. The citizenship stops are MUCH closer to government overreach IMO than TSA.

I briefly considered posting a link to actual backscatter images, but I'd likely get banned for posting porn. So I encourage you to Google backscatter images TSA to see for yourself what I'm talking about.

People don't always have another option besides flying commercially. I, myself, have the luxury of time since my job is 100% remote and I always travel with a hotspot. If I want to access another country, I cruise there. If I want to access another state, I either drive or take the train. I fly only when it's an emergency because of the TSA. But commercial air travel is built into the structure of our society. What other choice do people have if they only have a few vacation days and they need to see a far-flung relative, or their job requires them to fly? Very few are independently wealthy and thus able to afford a private jet. So it's not realistic to suggest that people who don't like it just shouldn't fly.

I never poo poo'd DUI checkpoints or citizenship stops. I think they're an incredible overreach. What I said is that we still have the CHOICE to go around them. Yes, it costs a little more in gas. But the cost of gas to drive an hour out of your way is negligible compared to the difference between an economy seat on a commercial flight and a private plane.

 

[JLTraveling]

What is so scary about dealing with TSA?

Not going to repeat myself. You're welcome to read everything I've said in the past 9 pages of this thread.

 

[JLTraveling]

If you enroll in TSA you are willingly and knowingly doing it. I just recently did Global Entry, I understood what I was doing and getting my fingerprints for. If i had a direct issue with that I wouldn't enroll in it. TSA is me showing them I'm low risk and it's going to take something for me to be in a long-term program where I don't have to have nearly as much security checks as others who have not been deemed long-term to be low risk.

While my husband also has Global Entry the first time he needed to do fingerprints was actually in 2019 for CA to get a TWIC card as part of his job at power plants. This was a requirement CA had for the particular project. Background check was done as was a photo and as I said fingerprints.

And that's perfectly fine. I don't begrudge anyone who decides that they're comfortable with the TSA having their information. I just don't think it's reasonable for people to offer that as the solution for those who see the TSA as an extremely shady organization. If we think they're going too far with our bodies and our belongings, the last thing we want to do is give them our entire identities. Make sense?

 

[sam_gordon]

I briefly considered posting a link to actual backscatter images, but I'd likely get banned for posting porn. So I encourage you to Google backscatter images TSA to see for yourself what I'm talking about.

People don't always have another option besides flying commercially. I, myself, have the luxury of time since my job is 100% remote and I always travel with a hotspot. If I want to access another country, I cruise there. If I want to access another state, I either drive or take the train. I fly only when it's an emergency because of the TSA. But commercial air travel is built into the structure of our society. What other choice do people have if they only have a few vacation days and they need to see a far-flung relative, or their job requires them to fly? Very few are independently wealthy and thus able to afford a private jet. So it's not realistic to suggest that people who don't like it just shouldn't fly.

I never poo poo'd DUI checkpoints or citizenship stops. I think they're an incredible overreach. What I said is that we still have the CHOICE to go around them. Yes, it costs a little more in gas. But the cost of gas to drive an hour out of your way is negligible compared to the difference between an economy seat on a commercial flight and a private plane.

Just because someone feels they NEED to do something doesn't make it a RIGHT.

 

[JLTraveling]

Just because someone feels they NEED to do something doesn't make it a RIGHT.

OK Karen.

 

[sam_gordon]

OK Karen.

So now you want to be insulting? It's been a good discussion and I've been nothing but respectful to your views. If you want to start dropping insults, I'm done.

 

[fly girl]

So now you want to be insulting? It's been a good discussion and I've been nothing but respectful to your views. If you want to start dropping insults, I'm done.

I love discussions conducted in a civil manner, but I am out when it goes off the rails. I was out as soon as my words were obviously twisted to make me look bad ... nope! Not dealing with that nonsense.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And that's perfectly fine. I don't begrudge anyone who decides that they're comfortable with the TSA having their information. I just don't think it's reasonable for people to offer that as the solution for those who see the TSA as an extremely shady organization. If we think they're going too far with our bodies and our belongings, the last thing we want to do is give them our entire identities. Make sense?

Customs and Border Patrol already use facial recognition to help speed up boarding flights and getting through customs and have for at least several years. Our landing back in the U.S. in 2018 from Jamaica was so fast because they used the quick camera check. Cruise ports are also using this to help speed up disembarking. I vaguely remember hearing about being able to opt out but I'm not entirely certain exactly what you can opt out of so don't quote me on that part but it was related to facial recognition IIRC.

I don't think security measures across the world are going away I do think they are adjusting them as tech changes and time changes.

I remember being a kid being wanded separately (having to sit down too put one leg out wand that then the other leg out wand that) because I flew standby one-way because my step-mom was a travel agent and got a perk with Delta and Northwest Express. That was more of a hassle TBH than today's age but that is purely my personal thoughts.

I just learned yesterday that when we land in Venice in July we'll now have to have fingerprints and facial scans due to new rules, well the new rules are supposed to be in effect in May for 26 countries (22 of them in the Schengan Area). It's for all non-EU nationals that the rules will apply to.

 

[soccerdad72]

The tinfoil is getting a little deep in here.

 

[kdonnel]

I briefly considered posting a link to actual backscatter images, but I'd likely get banned for posting porn. So I encourage you to Google backscatter images TSA to see for yourself what I'm talking about.

Backscatter machines have not been used by the TSA for quite some time. They started phasing them out in 2013 and now exclusively use millimeter wave scanners.

If no issues are found when you are scanned the operator sees the word OK.

If something concerning was found the operator sees an image like this with yellow placed on the concerning areas:


I think even the most conservative person would agree that image is in no way pornographic.

 

[sam_gordon]

The tinfoil is getting a little deep in here.

I don't think it's tinfoil so much. I do think poster has some valid points. Obviously I don't agree with all of them. But if something is misread/misinterpreted (as in @fly girl's post) or insults start getting thrown out (as done to me), I think it's appropriate to no longer reply to posters.

 

[disneyseniors]

Not possible. We live in Seattle. It would take a week to get to Florida.

This struck a response from me
We are driving from N. Minnesota to Florida and have alloted 7 days to get to Orlando, with a couple of stops along the way. It will take a week to get to Orlando for us. I wanted to fly, but my husband wanted to drive, so we are driving. I actually like long road trips and we get along great and share the driving.

 

[Kennywood]

Yes I have. The naked pictures are the "body scans." Millimeter wave machines show a generic image, but backscatter scanners show every single detail of the individual's anatomy. And the groping people is the invasive patdowns. Yes, some agents do as little touching as possible. Some go way over the line. And even the "as little as possible" still involves putting their hands on exactly the "bathing suit areas" we teach our kids that no one should ever touch.

They could at least buy me dinner beforehand......