Do you think you would say "some thing" if faced with warning signs?

[eliza61]

As we learn more and more about the shooter in Arizona and of course we are now learning about all the "warning" signs.

Of course after the fact, so many things seem clear but I started thinking about my day to day.

I'm taking classes now in Philly and I gotta tell you, I've sat by people who had "off' behaviour. What do you do?

Even if you live next door to a person who is not quite as "normal" as every one else, don't you pretty much "mind" your own business.

 

[Mermaid02]

As we learn more and more about the shooter in Arizona and of course we are now learning about all the "warning" signs.

Of course after the fact, so many things seem clear but I started thinking about my day to day.

I'm taking classes now in Philly and I gotta tell you, I've sat by people who had "off' behaviour. What do you do?

Even if you live next door to a person who is not quite as "normal" as every one else, don't you pretty much "mind" your own business.

You pretty much have to mind your own business because UNTIL they do something, nothing can be done. I'm wondering how long before it comes out that his parents were scared of him too.

 

[golfgal]

There are a lot of people that are "off" that live normal lives and don't go on shooting sprees. It's easy to say after the fact that someone wasn't normal or whatever but not so easy before they do something. I don't think I would say anything without good reason because they might just be a little different.

 

[Liberty Belle]

As we learn more and more about the shooter in Arizona and of course we are now learning about all the "warning" signs.

Of course after the fact, so many things seem clear but I started thinking about my day to day.

I'm taking classes now in Philly and I gotta tell you, I've sat by people who had "off' behaviour. What do you do?

Even if you live next door to a person who is not quite as "normal" as every one else, don't you pretty much "mind" your own business.

If I heard someone say they were going to kill someone (and I thought it was more than a joke or a moment of anger) I would, but really, you can't call the police and say so and so were "off." There are a lot of mentally ill people in this world. Ninety-nine percent of them (not accurate, of course) would not try to kill people.

 

[Handbag Lady]

You pretty much have to mind your own business because UNTIL they do something, nothing can be done. I'm wondering how long before it comes out that his parents were scared of him too.

I agree. The son of a former co-worker scared a LOT of us. He was just 14 at the time but we found out there isn't much you can do until they do something. I'm just waiting for the day when this guy's name is in the headlines. I'm guessing he's about 18 or 19 by now.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Would I have the guts to call, yes. The question isn't would I call the question is who, right now there is no-one to call

 

[indimom]

Sometimes even when you try to do the right thing, there is nowhere to go and nothing to do.
We had a family friend who married about 8 years ago to a guy who had a diagnosis of bipolar. About five years into the marriage, he was diagnosed as schizophrenic (sp?). They lived with her mother and things were going rapidly downhill. She and her mother tried repeatedly to get him into a treatment center, get some serious help for him. No one would do anything for them because "he wasn't violent."
About 18 months ago, he drove up to a local gas station and shot two people. Drove back home, handed his wife the gun and told her "I think I shot someone." They called the police and he was taken in peacefully.
Luckily noone was seriously injured from the shooting, but it's just terrible that it took something so extreme to finally get the authorities/experts to listen and put him in a place where he can't hurt anyone.

 

[Trixieplus2]

Coming from the perspective of someone that is a little off (I am non-medicated Bipolar) I prefer to use therapy and try to cope rather than deal with debilitating side effects. I am sure some people IRL find me more than a little off (staring off into space at random times,daydreaming,mood swings,mumbling to myself *mainly because I can't remember **** without a list or constantly repeating it* I however have never planned to kill anyone. Oh I don't even actually think it is always wrong and have no problem with the thought of a vigilante taking out say child molesters but I know it is against the law so I would never do that....oooh scary right But just because my mind doesn't always work like every one elses doesn't mean I'm just waiting to snap. I know I am not above the law and I am well aware my mental illness effects the way I think. I kind of have to go by the litnay WWMTS What would my therapist Say.

 

[mzozzietj]

I think there are many many folks that act differently than the norm but I don't think most of us are qualified to understand which behaviors are something to be concerned about.

If a professional sees warning signs on the other hand, one would hope they would/could do something about it. Sadly as far as I know in many cases the most they can do is have someone put in for 72 hours of observation unless they actually commit a crime. I'm sure this varies state by state, etc

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It really depends on what is emanating.

Mental illness does not usually mean capable of murder.

Short of the person vocalizing that they might inflict harm or are actually planning to inflict harm

Their "weird" or "off" behavior alone isn't enough.

Hindsight is always 20/20 b/c we look for behaviors or characteristics to justify what they did.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Rather than people reporting "off" behaviors in others, if more people understood mental health and if it were treated just like other health issues, more people would get the help they need.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

My DD went to grammar school with a kid who I've always said was going to go Columbine. He would egg on other kids, punch them, push them, taunt them (ha, ha you don't have a mother 'cause she got killed on 9/11 ). He even used to hit the girls. They kept their hands to themselves until one kid lost it and punched him. And the kid stood there with a big grin on his face laughing while he was being punched. Told kids he would kill them, stalk them, pop out of bushes when the didn't expect it. And unfortunately took a liking to my DD. He used to just sit in class and stare at her with a big smile on his face, even when the teacher told him to knock it off. Teacher threw out a picture of DD one day (was up on the board for student of the month) and he picked it out of the garbage and told DD was going to go home and throw knives at it. Teacher told him to throw it out and he refused. I told DD in no uncertain terms the first time he touched her she should beat the crap out of him and then go to the principal. I told the principal the police would be called and I would make sure he was arrested. The kid's mother was brought into school multiple times, but according to her, he was the one being picked on and he was completely innocent. He even hit a teacher. Nothing was done for years. Was so happy when they finally kicked him out of school. So this year DD goes to public high school and guess who's in her class? I swear this kid is going to snap one day and kill a bunch of people, but since mom doesn't think there's anything wrong with him, she won't seek help for him. Even his father (parents are divorced) thinks the kid needs help. So what are you to do? I have to sit back and wait for this psycho to kill my daughter or her classmates? It's scary when you've looked insanity in the face.

 

[Pakey]

Rather than people reporting "off" behaviors in others, if more people understood mental health and if it were treated just like other health issues, more people would get the help they need.

ITA. So many mental health issues are very misunderstood.

 

[EMom]

Yep. I know someone (male teen) that fits the description. DH and I have long said that if a news alert comes on someday and that kid has shot his family or taken a gun to school and blown away several classmates/teachers, it won't surprise us one bit. Sad, but true. As a young child, he was weird. Then he was way weird. Then it morphed into full-fledged scary. His mom calls it oppositional defiant disorder, among other things. That translates to someone who can fly into instant, violent rages, has a major porn addiction, is angry at the world, is fascinated with weapons and explosives....You get the picture. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Mom passes it off as him being creative and a case of "boys will be boys." Well, the Unabomber was a boy, wasn't he?

BTW, others share this opinion, but until he actually DOES something, there's nothing that can be done about it. My fear is that (long story) now that circumstances have changed in his life, he is in a position to find a group of like-minded individuals. When he was alone and no one would ally themselves with him, he was dangerous enough. With an ally or two, I shudder to think what might happen.

I recently discussed this with someone who has known this teen his whole life and that person agreed with me that the signs were there since preschool age, but were ignored by the parents. They always spun it as boys will be boys, he's just intelligent and therefore different (he's not THAT smart), or aren't his oddities quirkily charming? Well, no they weren't. He raised the hairs on the back of our necks. Even his peers steer clear of him.

Probably for the best.

 

[JessicaR]

I was wondering today - I keep reading how people are saying what he did wasn't a surprise to them at all. How many of us can say that about someone you know personally?

I guess we could think someone is capable of that but we could and likely would be wrong. Still, warning signs that are numerous by many individuals should not be ignored. Family, friends and teachers would know best and should speak up.

I'm wondering about Jared's parents too - not a peep yet about them. Wondering if they tried to get him help at some point.

 

[luvmy3]

It really depends on what is emanating.

Mental illness does not usually mean capable of murder.

Short of the person vocalizing that they might inflict harm or are actually planning to inflict harm

Their "weird" or "off" behavior alone isn't enough.

Hindsight is always 20/20 b/c we look for behaviors or characteristics to justify what they did.

Exactly.

 

[Bilberry]

It sounds like many people did notice that Jared Loughner had mental issues and needed help. Recall this mornings article mentioning friends, family, classmates, teachers, and law enforcement all noticed he was unstable.

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/truther-pothead-creep-nihilist-psycho/

And as others have mentioned, I think even if you did find your self near someone odd and possibly dangerous, and reported him/her to authorities, little could be done till that person acted. And then of course it is to late.

I was listening to news commentator Charlies Krauthammer, who used to work in psychiatry, this evening. He mentioned that maybe 50 years ago proactive steps could have been taken with Loughner. He could have been forced into hospitalization before he acted. Today though that kind of action is not possible.

 

[shellybaxter]

rather than people reporting "off" behaviors in others, if more people understood mental health and if it were treated just like other health issues, more people would get the help they need.

amen!!!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

As we learn more and more about the shooter in Arizona and of course we are now learning about all the "warning" signs.

Of course after the fact, so many things seem clear but I started thinking about my day to day.

I'm taking classes now in Philly and I gotta tell you, I've sat by people who had "off' behaviour. What do you do?

Even if you live next door to a person who is not quite as "normal" as every one else, don't you pretty much "mind" your own business.

My sister's SIL is in a psychotic state right now and there really is nothing you can do until she "does something" to be honest.
She has no insurance, she is 41yrs old, no job, and is scared to death about her mother dying and being homeless. Her concern is valid, btw.

However she is threatening my sister, her family and her own mother. She calls the police, has been thrown out of the hospital many times when her mom was in there and harassed the hospital. (My sister & BIL are caring for her in their home. They found out that SIL is nuts at that point, although the MIL knew. Long story, short version.)

You can't have someone arrested because they "might" do something.

People are free to live their lives as they see fit whether that is medicated or unmedicated.

I also have a schizophrenic MIL and a cousin who is schizophrenic.

With my MIL we demanded she take her meds otherwise she would not get to see her grandchildren. She has been doing well for 15yrs on it.

With my cousin, my aunt & uncle ingnored that he was mentally ill. Yrs after my uncle died my aunt finally found him a group home when he was about 37.

She never sees him or talks about him. He is forced to take meds in the group home, thank goodness because his schizophrenia is severe.

There is just so much that extends over into the families of people with mental illness. Some families are able to handle it better than others and some cannot handle it.

 

[autumnpalm]

I went to high school with a boy everyone thought was slightly "off." I don't know if he had any official diagnoses but it was something that many of us noticed and wondered about.

After graduating he went on to kill two family members and attempt suicide. In hindsight it was obvious that there was something wrong with him and all the pieces of the puzzle fit together, but I'm not sure what could have been done to prevent it if the boy wasn't willing to accept help. It's easy to look back and see obvious solutions but things aren't nearly as clear looking into the future. I am not familiar with the mental healthcare system in the US but it is frightening that so many people seem to slip through the cracks and go untreated.

I think a good place to start would be in schools. Particularly high schools and colleges where many symptoms first arise. Maybe more in-depth mental health training for teachers and guidance counselors? The ability for guidance counselors to make mandatory referrals to doctors/psychiatrists? Designated school psychologists? Just thinking out loud here, I'm not sure what the solution is. A difficult situation all around.