Do you think they will modify. 2016 point charts

[ain0004]

Am planning a big family vacation for 2016. I know crazy planner here. But with a party of 12 and half of them school aged children my wheels are turning. In 2016 thanksgiving is early. Will they change point charts to change the week after thanksgiving adventure season vs choice?

 

[drusba]

They do not make changes to seasons simply because a holiday like Thanksgiving may be earlier one year. Point changes are not made lightly and there would be no reason to lower the points needed for late November. In any event, you will know by Mid Jan 2015 what points will be for 2016.

 

[DebbieB]

I've been a member since 1999 and adventure season has always been the same dates.

Jan 1 to 31
Sept 1 to 30
Dec 1 to 14

 

[Dean]

Am planning a big family vacation for 2016. I know crazy planner here. But with a party of 12 and half of them school aged children my wheels are turning. In 2016 thanksgiving is early. Will they change point charts to change the week after thanksgiving adventure season vs choice?

As noted, they will not change the principles. Starting the Sat immediately following Thanksgiving should be choice and the check in day of 1 Dec will start Adventure season based on how the holidays work. A more legitimate question is where they will do any reallocations for 2016. If they ever make any season changes, you can bet that time and extending to mid Dec will be a prime target for a permanent increase.

 

[DebbieB]

There isn't much of a difference in points between choice and adventure. Dream is where it really jumps.

 

[Dean]

There isn't much of a difference in points between choice and adventure. Dream is where it really jumps.

IF they ever make a change to the seasons for WDW, I'd suspect they'll simply do away with adventure but they would make the time from Thanksgiving up until the premier started at Xmas as Dream season. And to compensate they'd lower dream and magic a little.

 

[nkosiek]

Only having been a member for 2 years but having done a bunch of research and following along here and a few other places, I've noticed that during the summer (Magic) there is much more flexibility in booking and not is considered by many as not as busy. If that's true, why are those dates so costly in terms of points? Is it based on overall resort (The whole World) bookings? Just curious.

 

[DebbieB]

Only having been a member for 2 years but having done a bunch of research and following along here and a few other places, I've noticed that during the summer (Magic) there is much more flexibility in booking and not is considered by many as not as busy. If that's true, why are those dates so costly in terms of points? Is it based on overall resort (The whole World) bookings? Just curious.

The whole world.

I really doubt they will play with the season dates. Early December has been busy as long as I've been a member and they have never changed it.

 

[supersnoop]

Only having been a member for 2 years but having done a bunch of research and following along here and a few other places, I've noticed that during the summer (Magic) there is much more flexibility in booking and not is considered by many as not as busy. If that's true, why are those dates so costly in terms of points? Is it based on overall resort (The whole World) bookings? Just curious.

Why do they charge more points when it's not as busy? It's not as busy BECAUSE they charge more points. The point chart is designed specifically to even out demand.

 

[yitbos96bb]

As noted, they will not change the principles. Starting the Sat immediately following Thanksgiving should be choice and the check in day of 1 Dec will start Adventure season based on how the holidays work. A more legitimate question is where they will do any reallocations for 2016. If they ever make any season changes, you can bet that time and extending to mid Dec will be a prime target for a permanent increase.

I could see the first week or two of January getting increased as well. Last trips during that first week were like summer months for crowds because of the bowl games and people planning Disney trips to coincide. The second week with the marathon is a maybe Hutu can at least see the first week.

 

[drusba]

Only having been a member for 2 years but having done a bunch of research and following along here and a few other places, I've noticed that during the summer (Magic) there is much more flexibility in booking and not is considered by many as not as busy. If that's true, why are those dates so costly in terms of points? Is it based on overall resort (The whole World) bookings? Just curious.

When DVC started with OKW (then called the Disney Vacation Club) in the early 1990s, the original point charts were based on expected seasonal demand being very similar to Disney World in general demand at the hotels. As a result, the highest point totals went to Christmas and Easter weeks and the second highest went to the mid- Feb through April period and the summer school break period. All of the Fall except few days around Thanksgiving and third week of Dec had the the two lowest point seasons of the year. At the time October was still a lower demand and bargain cost season for the Disney hotels rather than its modern regular season cost.

Not much has changed since. As the new WDW resorts opened, their point seasons continued the OKW structure. There has in fact been only one seasonal change in all the years at WDW and that occurred at OKW in the early 90s before any other WDW resorts opened. The other changes have not been seasonal changes -- the other major change was to lower weekend and raise weekday points and individual resorts have had some room class but not seasonal changes: BWV adopted standard view for about 20% of the rooms early in its history, the Treehouse Villas were increased while the rest of SSR was decreased, AKV and BLT changed some rooms to lower cost standard view while raising points a little elsewhere.

The DVC demand at WDW is clearly not the same as the Disney in general demand despite the original assumptions made. Even in the earlier years, the point structure itself more or less aided in "over accomplishing" the goal of evening out demand thoughout the year as the times in the Fall, particularly the first half of December, became high demand times. The creation and extension of Food & Wine and Halloween Party coupled with the lower point costs and the continuing aging of the DVC member population so that there are now many who are no longer restricted to vacations during school breaks, has further skewed the demand to the Fall months, and today the time period from end of Sep through marathon weekend in Jan is by far the highest DVC demand quarter of the year at WDW while during the spring break weeks (including Easter time) and summer many things even at near park resorts are easy to get at 7 months out. No one should expect DVD to lower the points in that high demand quarter but many live with the constant fear that future seasonal changes may come raising points for at least key times in that quarter.

 

[zavandor]

Points reallocation really bugs me regarding SSR treehouses.
Since they were in such an high demand even at 11 months, they increased their cost (compensating elsewere). So SSR members lost their advantage over an highly requests booking category.
It was done for "the greated good of the program".

But then, why don't they increase the cost of standard view at BWV and BLT, or the first two weeks of December or marathon week end? Shouldn't it be done for the same reason?

 

[Dean]

Points reallocation really bugs me regarding SSR treehouses.
Since they were in such an high demand even at 11 months, they increased their cost (compensating elsewere). So SSR members lost their advantage over an highly requests booking category.
It was done for "the greated good of the program".

But then, why don't they increase the cost of standard view at BWV and BLT, or the first two weeks of December or marathon week end? Shouldn't it be done for the same reason?

I believe it's different but here's my thoughts on reallocation in general related to DVC. I believe it's their fiduciary responsibility to keep the demand of the various options RELATIVELY balanced. Truthfully I think they have not done a very good job over the years and have been FAR less active in reallocation than they should have been. They need to weigh the possibility of micromanaging so when it's done it really should be an obvious need supported by reservation patterns and usage considering both the high and low times and several years of data before changes are made. Ideally every single option would have exactly the same demand but realistically it will only be an approximation.

Historically they did one moderate reallocation in the 90's and caught a lot of flak from the members. They were overly sensitive and delayed the next reallocation for a long time when it should have been done after likely 5-6 years from the OKW one. Predictably the THV were overly popular at the same costs as the 2 BR's there and a reallocation was clearly needed. The question is whether it was planned up front as a sales tactic or simply reactionary and non of us know that answer no matter what we may have been told or believe. IMO the THV should have been a separate resort, I don't believe it's fair to the rest of the SSR to absorb the extra costs of the reallocation or the predictable long term upkeep. The other aspect of reallocation that is interesting is that clearly they have overcompensated for the weekend vs weekday differential. At the time we had lengthy discussions speculating as to why and none of us truly know. My guess is they wanted to shape members reservation behavior and may swing it back some day to an in between differential OR they were contemplating a minimum stay that they haven't implemented, at least yet.

I don't believe there's any reason for members to be upset over reallocations. They either know or should know going in it's not only possible but likely over time. That's true even for those that bought late in the game before the second reallocation after no changes for over 10 yrs. Done correctly it's healthy for the system. That a guide may have told someone otherwise or that someone bought in assuming it wouldn't happen because it'd been a while are meaningly positions given the POS info on this subject. In a sense they probably should make changes every 5-6 yrs just so that members know it'll happen. It's a little like someone who owns a rental property they lease and raise the rent every year so the tenants know to expect it. If they don't raise the rent for a few yrs then do a larger increase, people tend to get all bent out of shape.

 

[zavandor]

Dean I agree with all you said and I think a reallocation is due. I bought SSR after the reallocation so I'm not affected, but "a three bedroom for the cost of two" was a sales slogan for THV. If I had bought SSR for the THV and shortly after the resort being sold out I was hit by the reallocation I would have felt cheated.
Is AKV concierge less popular than the THV were?

 

[DebbieB]

Dean I agree with all you said and I think a reallocation is due. I bought SSR after the reallocation so I'm not affected, but "a three bedroom for the cost of two" was a sales slogan for THV. If I had bought SSR for the THV and shortly after the resort being sold out I was hit by the reallocation I would have felt cheated.
Is AKV concierge less popular than the THV were?

The big difference is number of rooms. AKV concierge is 5 two bedroom lockoffs. There are 60 THV (as per the DVC resource thread). The number of points for a THV is out of reach of many members but an AKV studio would be in reach of most.

 

[Dean]

Dean I agree with all you said and I think a reallocation is due. I bought SSR after the reallocation so I'm not affected, but "a three bedroom for the cost of two" was a sales slogan for THV. If I had bought SSR for the THV and shortly after the resort being sold out I was hit by the reallocation I would have felt cheated.
Is AKV concierge less popular than the THV were?

Dealing routinely with non DVC timeshares where you can tell they're lying if their lips are moving, it's difficult to be overly sympathetic in this situation. I've seen people post they knew it could happen but assumed it wouldn't and they were still upset. There were also many in the late 90's and early 2000's who asked and were told we'd never see another reallocation by the sales staff. The bottom line is it's included in the legal contract and that's the final word. Concierge is more popular and was even at the lower THV points.