Do you think it's wrong for..

[Mrs.Toad]

FWIW--it is now mid-way through March and I find it hard to believe that a student requiring accomodations would only just now be realizing this. IF it is college, the burden is on the student to make his/her modification needs known.

Yes, I'm no expert in the ADA, but it seems to me the logical thing to do would be to speak with the teacher at the beginning of the semester about what type of accomodations are needed. If the students know they have a special need that prevents them from writing legibly, they need to be proactive about accomodating for it. If they don't do anything about it, waiting until after they turn in an illegible test to complain, then they deserve to lose points on the test, maybe not for the sloppy writing alone, but for the lack of effort in finding a way to make themselves understood.

 

[Carly_Roach]

a college professor to take away points for illegible writing on tests?

We just had a test that consisted of multiple choice, and short answer questions. The short answer part was obviously hand written.

When we were talking about the test in class afte rthey were graded, my professor was talking about how atrocious some of teh handwriting is. She said that there were a good number of people in every class who lost points because she could just not read what they were writing.

It was obviuos after class which ones lost points becaus ethey were complaining about how it wasn't fair and she should be able to figure out what they wrote. I mean, most teachers I know can read really bad handwriting, but there comes a point where is just ridiculous and they should not have to spend hours tryign to figure out what people wrote.

This teacher is by far the nicest, most caring teacher I have ever met. She wants everyone to do well adn she give ample opportunities to go to her for help so it's not liek she wants to take points off. I mean, I saw some of these papers and the writing was bad...I mean, I work with preschoolers and I can read the 3 year olds writing better than some of these papers.

Do you think the teacher was wrong for taking points off?

I haven't read any of the other posts and wanted to answer with my first impression.

No, she is not wrong. She is absolutely right. If your medium of communication is the written word and you are unable to get your thought or idea across because of either bad sentence structure or illegible writing, then the thought or idea cannot be communicated to the person you're trying to communicate with.

This is a classic case of hoping to get points for "trying".

 

[disykat]

In certain circumstances, some people can't write any better. DS20 has an awful handwriting but he has tremors and can't write any other way. If his professor took off points for his writing, I would be furious!!!

Assuming the professor is aware of the issue?

Yes, really. If they looked, they could see there is a note in his file from his neurologist with the details. And since he has 4 computers, if it's possible to turn in his papers typed, he does.

A note in his file? Do you seriously think every prof looks in ever student's file to determine possible necessary accommodations?

In which case, the accommodations should be made before the student starts the class, not after a test.

ITA!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Speaking as someone with atrocious handwriting...

Points off if she honestly couldn't make out the answer without more than slight extra effort...totally fair

Points off just because the handwriting was bad....not right

(tell your classmates to start printing. Yes, its slower, but when your handwriting is bad, it is a lot easier to read)

I can't read my own handwriting (and my signature? fahgeddaboudit!). I print. Simple.

 

[daughter_of_amid_chaos]

All of my professors (college, Masters, and now PhD) say on the first day of class if you have any medical or other conditions that could affect you in class please come speak to me. If we require special assistance from academic affairs we will work with them to make everything accessible for you.

This includes handwriting difficulties, extra time on tests, etc.

 

[Nancyg56]

basically it was, if she couldnt read what you wrote, you lost all 10 points for that question. We had 5 short answer questions worth 10 points each and she said that she is not a detective. If she cant read teh answers, you dont get the points.

.

How on Earth can the teacher give credit if she can not read the answer? I have terrible handwriting, I make sure that it is legible.

In certain circumstances, some people can't write any better. DS20 has an awful handwriting but he has tremors and can't write any other way. If his professor took off points for his writing, I would be furious!!!

I have read the PP's and agree. If your DS has a condition which makes it near impossible to read his handwriting a conversation with the professor should solve that. Ther is no reason to wait until a test has been taken to cry foul.

 

[emma'smom]

What file? A student's file is usually housed with their academic advisor and/or, if they have an identified need for accommodation, with the office that specifically works with students who have special needs.

At our college, a student needs to file paperwork with the Learning Center who will then work with them to assure they have the accommodations that they need.

Students are instructed to let their professors know that they have a need for an accommodation at the beginning of the semester (or request that the Learning Center do this for them if they are uncomfortable doing this themselves) and these needs will be happily accommodated.

In this case, if I had a student who might have trouble writing, I would either arrange for a scribe (or in this case since it is easier) have the student simply type the answers.

To assure test-security, the student might be asked to take the test in the Learning Center on a learning center computer. Honestly, I probably wouldn't worry about that and just let them type on their own laptop in my classroom. However, if there was some concern that a student might have access to test-related information on their computer, testing in the Learning Center would eliminate this issue.

However, I find so many students have horrible handwriting (as do I) that it is far easier just to give papers and take-home essay exams to assess their analytical understanding of a topic and then to have them do oral presentations if I want to assess their "on the spot recall" of certain information.

 

[vettechick99]

no I don't

 

[Kathi OD]

The teacher is completely in the right, but there are plenty of reasons why people cannot improve their handwriting. For example:

If I am writing with an eraseable pen, you will not be able to read it. Same thing for any pencil lead softer than 2H. (When I was in school, I usually kept some HB lead around for scantron tests.) Most pens smear as well. Why? Because I am left-handed, and I never mastered the incredibly painful, athritic-appearing, "hook-hand" writing configuration that some teachers insist we use.

And there are plenty of other physical conditions which can make handwriting difficult or impossible. If you know that your handwriting is bad, you need to figure out a way around it. Me, I print. A lot. And developed my own shorthand for taking notes in class.

I'm left-handed too, but as an adult, KNOW that I can't use those types of writing implements on a test. We're not talking about little kids. We're talking about college students.

In certain circumstances, some people can't write any better. DS20 has an awful handwriting but he has tremors and can't write any other way. If his professor took off points for his writing, I would be furious!!!

How would you being furious help your 20yo, ADULT, college student son?

Yes, really. If they looked, they could see there is a note in his file from his neurologist with the details. And since he has 4 computers, if it's possible to turn in his papers typed, he does.

Then as others have suggested, he should approach the professor at the beginning of the semester to set up appropriate accommodations. FWIW, at the college level, it's not the professors' responsibility to check their students' file. In college, it becomes the students' repsonsibility to inform their professors that they need an accommodation and have the documentation to back it up.

It seems as though none of the people in the scenario described by the OP either have the same, or even a similar disability, to the one your son has, or took the time to discuss with the professor an alternative to handwriting their responses to test/exam questions.

 

[C.Ann]

If she can't read the answer then points should come off because she cannot determine whether the answer is correct or not.

If she couldn't read it, then it's fair. How can she grade something that she can't read?

I think it's fair. Points are earned for knowing the material. If she couldn't read what the students wrote, how have they shown her that they know the material?

Nope, teacher is not wrong at all. If she can't read the writing, how she is supposed to know what is written.

Handwriting is some thing that can easily be improved so no excuse for extremely bad handwriting.

Some hospitals were making doctors take penmanship seminars after complaints that charts and prescriptions could not be read.

(Especially the section that I bolded in the post above..)

With everything being high tech now - papers typed on computers with spell check and such - as well as "text speak", I'm not the least bit surprised that students can't write a sentence that can be read easily (and for the most part, don't seem to care).. Maybe losing points is the incentive needed in order to improve their penmanship.. I think the teacher acted appropriately in this situation..

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

In certain circumstances, some people can't write any better. DS20 has an awful handwriting but he has tremors and can't write any other way. If his professor took off points for his writing, I would be furious!!!

Then he needs to talk to the office on his campus that deals with students with disabilities and get the appropriate accommodations put in place. Once you are in college, it is your responsibility.

The problem is that if the student isn't failing classes there are no accommodations available to them so it doesn't matter if they do this before or after a test or when the class starts or ends they are just out of luck.

Not true. As long as a student has a documented disability, the college or university must give a reasonable accommodation. I'll give you an example:

I have a friend who is a straight A and B student. She suffered from Leukemia before entering college and is still dealing with the side effects of chemo and graft vs. host disease. She needs extra time to test and because of her immune system issues and numerous doctors appointments, she needs a modified attendance requirements. These were all provided for her- before she ever had an issue. She took the time ot talk to the office at school that handles accommodations and so has never had a problem.

 

[Cornhusk]

How can someone grade an answer if the teacher cannot even read it?

 

[Sparx]

Definitely agree with the professor.

Campuses have disabled student services, so students with disabilities should have already notified the professor before this, and had appropriate plans for the handwritten test made. I've been in classes where students have used laptops or had scribes appointed so the student could dictate what would be written for them.

 

[Ember]

In certain circumstances, some people can't write any better. DS20 has an awful handwriting but he has tremors and can't write any other way. If his professor took off points for his writing, I would be furious!!!

And, as a person with a disability who cannot write legibly, it is MY responsibility to do whatever I need to so that people can read my exams. At one point I typed my exams, and now I dictate them to software. Once you reach college it is your job to take care of any needs you have. I would NOT accept "I have a problem" after the exam was written.

I agree. Talking to the prof at the start of a class that an accommodation is required is responsible. Complaining of a disability after the test is an excuse, and not one that should be accepted.

 

[Minnie]

Handwriting is some thing that can easily be improved so no excuse for extremely bad handwriting.

Nope, some people have difficulties w/ fine motor skills and which cannot "easily" be improved. Though in these cases accomodations should be allowed so this should not have resulted in lost points.

For those without fine motor issues.... then I can see the teachers point. However - a warning should have been issued 1st in my opinion rather than failure of the test.

 

[Minnie]

(Especially the section that I bolded in the post above..)

Again "easily be improved" does not fit in many situations. It is not simply lack of care or lack of work for many....

Although I definitely agree with the posters that mentioned accomodations should be in place before the exam points were ever an issue unless all prior papers were type written and this was the first handwritten paper/exam.

 

[DISdreamin']

I agree. Talking to the prof at the start of a class that an accommodation is required is responsible. Complaining of a disability after the test is an excuse, and not one that should be accepted.

This is all well and good, but talking to the professor is usually not the first step, as others have mentioned. You have to go through proper channels, and no accomodations will likely be made without paperwork/documentation going through some sort of disability services office (or whatever they have at the school).

Also as has been pointed out, in most cases a professor does not have access to student records regarding health/medical issues, nor to anything pertaining to learning disabilities in my experience. It is the students right and responsibility to bring the need for accomodation(s) to the professor through the appropriate channels as described above. It won't just happen without the student making the first move, and you can't make accomodations retroactively, so students need to jump on this ASAP if they are headed to college and have documented disabilities (learning or otherwise)!

Additionally, students may opt - by their own choice - to not avail themselves of their right to any and all accommodations they qualify for. Many students have the right to accomodations they don't utilize in a particular class for one reason or another. Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it. That is why instructors rely on the student - or the disability services office acting on the students behalf - to make them aware of what accomodations the student requires for their class.

Oh, and as to the topic of the thread - absolutely you don't receive points if your answer cannot be deciphered! How can one award points when they can't gauge the content/knowledge?

 

[daisyduck123]

No, I don't think it's wrong at all.

I teach 1st grade and if a student (whom I know is capable of neat handwriting) turns in a sloppy paper that I can't read, then I will just mark it wrong.

And this is 1st grade....so in college...you bet I'd mark it wrong!

 

[disfan07]

I fthey have a medical condition that makes it diffcult to write, that is what the disabilities office is there for. They are amazing at our school and will help in anyway possible.

In that case, the teachers make accomidations for those students.

BUT...the student has to talk to the disabilities office AND the teacher at the beginning of teh semester and all teachers tell us that an dit is in every syllabus so there is no excuse for a student to not have handled it before hand.

 

[Disneycrazy!!]

yep i think its fair. If she has a hard time reading what each student wrote and it takes her extra time to grade papers, then I think its totally fine for the professor to deduct points.