Do you think it's possible to complain...

With all the talk of the towel animals, cards and gifts on anniversaries and birthdays and the like, I think some people's expectations are out of sync with reality. Free upgrades and the like are NOT the norm. There may be less complaining if there were less posts of rare special treats. I like to read positive and negative opinions because it definitely does keep my expectations realistic. I do not come here for my Disney "fix" but rather to see what others have or have not enjoyed. Threehearts
 
Threehearts said:
With all the talk of the towel animals, cards and gifts on anniversaries and birthdays and the like, I think some people's expectations are out of sync with reality. Free upgrades and the like are NOT the norm.

I agree completely. But why would someone go out of their way to criticize someone who has posted these disappointments? Someone posts they are mad they didn't get a towel animal, I ignore it. They are probably just blowing off steam. If I were to say anything, it would be "Yeah, I never get them either."

People who would chime in and remind someone that their expectations are too high remind me of those teachers' pets in school that like to point out when everyone in the class makes mistakes.
 
My experience here mostly lurking is that *critiques* don't get flamed, *complaints* often do.

There is a difference between offering up your experiences, as one person's experience and offering actual incidents to support your opinion and those posts which offer broad brush "this was the worst blah, blah, blah, blah" with little or no actual information or information that is grossly out of step with the level of ire in the post.

I'm able to predict with pretty much 100% accuracy which posts not liking a particular resort, restaurant, etc. will get "sorry you had a bad time" responses vs. spark an out and out flame war. The tone of the OP is generally pretty transparent.
 
bellarella said:
My experience here mostly lurking is that *critiques* don't get flamed, *complaints* often do.

There is a difference between offering up your experiences, as one person's experience and offering actual incidents to support your opinion and those posts which offer broad brush "this was the worst blah, blah, blah, blah" with little or no actual information or information that is grossly out of step with the level of ire in the post.

I'm able to predict with pretty much 100% accuracy which posts not liking a particular resort, restaurant, etc. will get "sorry you had a bad time" responses vs. spark an out and out flame war. The tone of the OP is generally pretty transparent.


That's pretty much what I was getting at earlier. Reporting an experience, even one less than positive, can be done in a constructive manner. As I said before; try to ask yourself if what you are offering could be helpful to someone. Reporting an incident and how it was resolved is helpful. "Don't Ever Go To (insert resort name here)" is not.
 

Do you think it's possible to complain... ....about a resort and not get blasted by a bunch of people and probably have the thread locked at some point?... It invariably ends withl the OP feeling like crap and wishing he'd never posted!! :rotfl: Think that could ever change!!??
When I have a bad experience, I relay it honestly and in its proper perspective: "I went to XXX and didn't enjoy it, because YYY happened, and I didn't feel that that was what I was promised." By restricting the review to what happened to me, and how I felt about it, there is no quandary for folks who had a different experience, or felt differently about their experience. People do have different experiences; people do value things differently, have different preferences, and perceive things differently, so there is nothing remarkable about the fact that I experienced one thing and someone else experienced something else.

I think where some folks get into doo-doo is when they react negatively to someone else relaying their own contradictory experience, or their own contradictory perception -- as if someone else experiencing something different or perceiving something differently somehow reduces the validity of one's own experience or perception! The Internet is not a safe place to expect an unrebutted soap-box! :)

I think the way the thread ultimately goes, depends on the words of the OP. They set the tone for whether they are viewed as posting a complaint or sounding like a whiner.
I agree that tone has some bearing, but it is also a matter of foundation. I often seen complaints that are based on unfounded expectations. Rarely have I seen a complaint where someone experienced something radically different from what they were explicitly promised by Disney itself. Often we see someone expecting something because they want to expect it, or because a friend led them to believe they could expect it, or because they had a very special experience last time and now expect that every time, etc.

Beyond complaints based on unfounded expectations, we do see a good bit of buyers remorse. WDW is incredibly expensive, and folks often restrict their consideration of what they're getting for that high price to just the service they receive, without factoring-in the extent to which the price reflects superlative demand, especially demand to to the superlative location of the resorts. That disconnect ends up being the source of a lot of misdirected dissatisfaction.

At times I 've stopped because it's no longer fun when people disagree
Me too. With notable exception, I tend to unsubscribe from a thread after the third or fourth page, even if it isn't getting heated. I figure that all the interesting things said in a thread are typically in the first few pages. Works for me.

There are a lot of people here at the DIS who worship at the Church of Disney and see any criticism as blasphemy.
Oh yeah... there's also a problem with some folks using highly-emotionalized loaded language to communicate their feelings. :) That's a pretty good way to start a flame-fest. :)

There are some people that legitimately had a bad experience and there are others who would have never been satisfied.
Definitely. I know some folks who not only would never be satisifed, but are only happy when they have something to complaint about!

So you are saying no one should complain here?
On the contrary, I believe Laurajean was advocating that folks should complain while there at the hotel. I think Laurajean's point was that complaining about something without giving the hotel a chance to make it good at the time you received the bad service seems contradictory: Why would someone want to remain dissatisfied so much that they'd keep their dissatisfaction a secret until it was too late for the hotel to satisfy that someone? (Unless, of course, that someone is one of those people who is only happen when s/he has something to complain about! :))

why the need to comment?
There are new folks checking out these boards every day. Silence implies assent. This is a community, member should be expected to conscientiously contribute to the community -- not just sit back and let incomplete or inaccurate information fester.

My experience here mostly lurking is that *critiques* don't get flamed, *complaints* often do. There is a difference between offering up your experiences, as one person's experience and offering actual incidents to support your opinion and those posts which offer broad brush "this was the worst blah, blah, blah, blah" with little or no actual information or information that is grossly out of step with the level of ire in the post.
This is a wonderful summary, bellarella. I think you hit the nail on the head.
 
bellarella said:
My experience here mostly lurking is that *critiques* don't get flamed, *complaints* often do.

There is a difference between offering up your experiences, as one person's experience and offering actual incidents to support your opinion and those posts which offer broad brush "this was the worst blah, blah, blah, blah" with little or no actual information or information that is grossly out of step with the level of ire in the post.

I'm able to predict with pretty much 100% accuracy which posts not liking a particular resort, restaurant, etc. will get "sorry you had a bad time" responses vs. spark an out and out flame war. The tone of the OP is generally pretty transparent.


DING DING DING. WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!! I was getting ready to post just that. Then I read yours and you stole my thunder.

It's not that you post you had a bad experience, it's how you post.
If one comes up with. I found concierge level service snooty. Or I didn't like the class of people at the Pop expect to be called on those type of statements.
Or better yet. Who finds value's sleazy, or slimy, or too loud (referring to the theming rather than the noise)
Or Who finds deluxes exist to part fools from their money
or who finds deluxes snooty.

Those are pure flame bait
 
Once again, though.....

Of course I undersrtand that some complaints are made more constructively than others. I get a vibe that sometimes a) the person is hard to please or b) they had unreasonable expectations or c) they are exagerating. But that isn't why I started this thread.

I'm talking about the reactions to those complaints. I for the life of me can't figure out how one complaint about towel animals warrents 12 pages of nebbish admonishments about "expectations". I don't understand how it can lead to a fight....or a locked thread!!!!!! Talk about ridiculous.

If you think a complaint is too whiney, walk on by.
 
What I don't understand is when someone tells about the bad information they were given by the front desk, or the bad experience with something at the resort - the people who say - "well that never happens to me because I don't ever use that service" . Like the OP is an idiot for expecting a service that the resort advertises and is supposed to have available to actually BE available and work properly. If you don't use the service - then of COURSE it doesn't happen to you - so why chime in? :confused3
 
auntpolly said:
Once again, though.....

Of course I undersrtand that some complaints are made more constructively than others. I get a vibe that sometimes a) the person is hard to please or b) they had unreasonable expectations or c) they are exagerating. But that isn't why I started this thread.

I'm talking about the reactions to those complaints. I for the life of me can't figure out how one complaint about towel animals warrents 12 pages of nebbish admonishments about "expectations". I don't understand how it can lead to a fight....or a locked thread!!!!!! Talk about ridiculous.

If you think a complaint is too whiney, walk on by.

I really think it helps to be logical and try to consider all possible causes/solutions to keep problems from happening again, including giving people the benefit of the doubt. As others have said, the tone of a complaint means a lot, as well as what types of resolution the person has tried to obtain. I try to be helpful and friendly, but there are some who are entirely out to badmouth a resort, restaurant, etc. and feel the need to rant and rave about their experience to keep others from experiencing the "horrors" they did. And it worries me when other DISers start to panic (based on that particular post) that they have made the wrong decision about the resort, restaurant, etc.

I truly feel that many have expectations that are way too high. Many of these expectations are based on things that Disney has not publicized or offered, just what they've read about in other posts. I certainly didn't have any expectations when I first visited WDW back in 1981 and had a perfect stay in an offsite Red Roof Inn! :wizard: I tend to think that many people get too stressed out about making this the "perfect" vacation instead of just enjoying being there.

I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate problems, but if you expect any true resolution other than a posting saying "we're sorry you had a bad time!," the time & place to complain about them is when you're at Disney World. I firmly believe in being polite but firm when trying to get something resolved to my satisfaction.

So if I choose to not "walk on by" and instead post a reply to clarify a possible misunderstanding, offer reasons for why certain situations occurred, or even offer my wishes of pixie dust for a better trip next time, I will do so. I enjoy the DIS as a way to help others and learn more about WDW. To me, all opinions except hostile ones are much appreciated. :grouphug:
 
I could be way off here but I see quite a few posts go wrong with just one poster who will say something like " I can afford anywhere on property" which makes me feel like someone is posting just to brag. Then people start getting their defenses up and it goes downhill from there. Let the people complain and don't try to convince them to stay at your favorite resort. Most people though are really sincere ,but there is always just a few that makes it bad for all of us. It has gotten so when I am reading a thread I think in the back of mind that it is getting just plain ugly.
 
I don't like it when people get nasty with each other, but I DO find that negative posts, and the positivies ones, can be extremely educational when a family is trying to decide which resort is right for them.

When planning our first family Disney vacation several years ago, we decided on CBR because of its tropical theming. Then I read many, many negative reports on it. Some were definitely legitimate because this was back before the rooms and food court were remodeled/refurbished, but some people were complaining about things that really were not the fault of the resort itself.

Every single thread about CBR was valuable to me, though, because each one gave me more and more information, and in the end, they made me feel positive that CBR was the right resort for us. And it was! We LOVED CBR :sunny: But you know what? From reading these boards, I knew enough to request a building CLOSE to OPR, rather than further away, especially since at that time my younger DS was just off crutches from a chronic hip problem he has.

Anyway....I love to read the good and bad reviews. And watch this space because in about 4 weeks I'll be writing my own reviews about the Wilderness Lodge concierge and the Polynesian concierge :sunny:

P.S. I agree that the attitude of the OP often has a lot to do with how people react to a thread. Some people really dwell on minor negative things, and I think those are the ones who elicit "flames", so to speak.
 
OK........ :)

yes, yes, yes, we all know some posters are asking for it.

But what I'm saying is that if you feel the need to flame someone for complaining about towel animals, then you've got problems of your own!!
 
Thanks. I got a good belly laugh! I agree with most of the other posters. I learn something from everyone's experience. I like the good and the bad.

_________________________________________

To Duadi, an angel in heaven! :cloud9:
 
Disney Debbie said:
What I don't understand is when someone tells about the bad information they were given by the front desk, or the bad experience with something at the resort - the people who say - "well that never happens to me because I don't ever use that service" . Like the OP is an idiot for expecting a service that the resort advertises and is supposed to have available to actually BE available and work properly. If you don't use the service - then of COURSE it doesn't happen to you - so why chime in? :confused3

:rotfl: I have seen that SOOO many times on the concierge threads. Someone complains about the concierge being unhelpful/incompetent with setting up PS and seven people who LOOOOVE that resort's concierge chime in with, "well, I would never use that, I love making my own PS!"

Concierge inevitably brings up some of the most bickering, I think... I think it is because concierge, by it's nature and it's eye-popping price implies a certain level of service that cannot necessarily just be quantified by free food offerings... it's an extra level of guest service-- but what that extra level includes is non-specific and often in dispute around here. When concierge guests in particular complain about not getting that extra level of service they are often accused of being high-handed and wanting everyone to kiss their rear end, etc. I've never stayed concierge but I personally think that the extra cost Disney asks for the service would lead me to expect better treatment than I often read about here. But concierge seems to be an awfully emotional issue in any case.

AuntPolly, I agree about the towel animals though. Threads like those can be useful in lowering everyone's expectations about those "extras" but I always feel sorry for that newbie with like 15 posts who comes in and writes a review and says she was disappointed she didn't get any towel animals. You can pretty much see the way that thread is going to go.
 
....about a resort and not get blasted by a bunch of people and probably have the thread locked at some point?
It's possible.
 
Sadly, I don't think it's possible (which a now locked thread of mine confirms). People get very defensive and angry over things like complaints. I, on the other hand, enjoy reading about complaints as well as praise. It's the complaints that make me a savvy consumer. It makes sure I remember to do things like ask for a change of sheets when arriving, check the room for cleanliness (sometimes I'm so excited and head right to the park without inspecting a room first), tip mousekeeping, know what to expect from restaurants and food courts, etc.

Disney is Disney and the most magical place on earth, but I don't expect CM's or anyone else to do nip-ups for me or to treat me like I am the only guest (or the Queen of England). So it's helpful for me to be reminded on occassion that resorts have their flaws and not to expect absolute perfection...that way when I don't get towel animals (which BTW I have NEVER gotten, or even heard of until I joined this board and I've been going to Disney since the early 80's) my vacation isn't "ruined".

I don't think complaints need to have a purpose. Sometimes people just need to vent, and that's ok with me. I hope that anyone who did have a serious complaint would attempt to rectify the situation by contacting management. But I don't mind anyone posting complaints.
 
Jen D said:
Concierge inevitably brings up some of the most bickering, I think... I think it is because concierge, by it's nature and it's eye-popping price implies a certain level of service that cannot necessarily just be quantified by free food offerings...
Indeed. One of the things folks often have a hard time understanding is that price and cost have little to do with each other. Concierge is an limited offering -- that itself has value to the market, though I think we can say that most potential customers don't acknowledge that value. (I sure don't.) So there is bound to be disappointment when folks, like me, who don't acknowledge the value of exclusivity, pay that much money for little more than some extra snacks and a higher floor.
 
auntpolly said:
You've all made some good points, but here's my last point.

The next time some posts that they had a bad stay, if it's out and out troll, I think everyone should just leave it be -- 0 posts commenting.

But if it seems a real post about someone's real experience, it is their experience, and their feelings, so let them have it and let them have their say. It's possible to say that you haven't had the same experience, I guess, but anone who posts to say they can't imagine what the person is talking about, or posts to criticize the complaint is just a big jerk, as far as I'm concerned. Everyone is due their complaint or their vent without a bunch of goody-two-shoes chiming in to say that they shouldn't be complaining.
There are legitimate complaints about resorts-room after room being dirty where management was informed as an example. Then there are people who are upset that they tried to bounce a quarter off of their bed upon check in and it didn't like it used to in the old days, and there where no characters waiting in the closet even though it was their son's half birthday. I don't get into name calling. If someone has a bad stay based on unrealistic expectations, I may post something just so that I can say that I enjoyed a resort in the past so that someone will not decide not to stay there based on one person's opinion.
 
Bad things do happened. My mother works at Port Orleans and the stories she tells about the guest she feels so sorry for because WDW screwed up and goes out of her way to help are funny, touching and some times sad. Unfortunately, she also has far more stories about obnoxious guest who do feel a sense of entitlement because they paid so much for their vacations and make very unreasonable demands of the staff.

The thing I have learned over the years is this: if you had a bad expereince, you can let it ruin your vacation or you can find a sense of humor in the situation. I can pitch a fit when warranted ( and sometimes it is warranted)
but, I try not to.

I figure I don't want anyone yelling at my mother when she answers for housekeeping at the other end, so why should I yell at some elses mom. :) '

jeannej
 
auntpolly said:
....about a resort and not get blasted by a bunch of people and probably have the thread locked at some point?

I was just thinking how predictable and funny it is. Someone posts: I was so disappointed in the Poly! The concierge staff was so snooty and told me I was "on my own" , the maids had lunch in my room and didn't clean up , and the lifeguards were drinking on the job and the hairdryer malfunctioned and set my hair on fire .

Then someone posts, I'm so sorry your trip wasn't magical. The Poly has been practically perfect in every way every time we've stayed there (and under their breath..."so I don't know what you are talking about you big liar!")

Then it deteriorates into people fighting about that ever amiguous "sense of entitlement" and how people expect too much and how "some people just complain too much and let things that don't matter get to them.

It invariably ends withl the OP feeling like crap and wishing he'd never posted!! :rotfl: Think that could ever change!!??


If I feel something is worth complaining about, I will post it. There will always be some Disney die hards who believes that the Mouse does not make any mistakes (sorry folks he does) and if they want to blast me, so be it. (That is the nice way to put it, saying what I really want to would be profanity). The worse I see is when someone post something bad about DVC (I am a DVC member so I know they make mistakes as well), there are a few people who go absolutely nuts and start writing “if you don’t like it sell your DVC” or something to that effect.

Let me say this, when the Mouse messes up, his folks more times then not, tries their darnest to make it right. But there are times when you have to gripe a little when they don't.

Everyone has their opinions and since this is a public place and with the amount of people that visit here, you are sure to strike a nerve with someone no matter how right (or wrong) you may be.

If it gets to a point where they are PMing you, report it to the webmaster as I am sure they will not tolerate such behavior.

When you worry about what other people think about you, you will do nothing in your life but worry.
 














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