Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[Indiana Rose Lee]

**
SURE!!! LOL! Heck, anything to get a discount!

Well, it beats having them just to get a discount!

 

[brunette8706]

Well, it beats having them just to get a discount!

*
It sure does! Giving birth was worth WELL worth it! lol

 

[Pirate Jeff]

I had thought I was done posting on this thread but as it continues to progress, some words need to be said! I decline to quote individual posts as it is clear some POV's are shared. I do appreciate however, those with differences respecting each other....., with only a few exceptions, this thread has been cordial and respectful and in my opinion, fairly positive!

That said, there are a few points I'd like to address:

On why the MODS have left this thread open:

I personally, am glad they have. I know for a fact that CM's and other Disney Employees participate on this board. Many legitimate issues have been discussed here, from pricing to attitudes to ergonomics. I think it's wonderful, that service providers have a venue to communicate with customers or at least, view those customer's concerns. Many things cannot change but some can.

On why we complain:

This is a bit redundant but, as has been stated before, we are paying for a product and have expectations of that product. Many analogies have been offered, some very exceptional (I love the "New Coke" reference...- awesome!). Has anyone gone to a restaurant and seen those 3X5 cards asking for an evaluation? Consider this thread in lieu of those cards. On a previous stay at the CR, I got one sent in the mail to go online and fill out an assessment. That was the only opportunity I had to offer feedback that had been requested. We can do this anytime to a CM or manager but here on this thread, we can do it in more detail.

As I wrote earlier, Disney set the standard, we just expect them to maintain it. Nothing more.

On the cost:

The price of everything is going up. We all know this. We also know the economy is tight right now. Raising prices during times like this sends a bad message to your customers. Not only have prices gone up but the frequency of the increases along with the level of the increase is not in line with inflation.

I recently bought a pair of 14k gold hoop earrings for DW. I went to a large department store first and the clerk showed me a pair that she said was regularly: $550.00 but were on sale for: $235.00. I politely told her: "No thank you". I then went to a well known warehouse store where the identical earrings were: $69.00.

Two points here. When a company puts a product "on sale", it is usually only reducing the mark up. The other point, that companies will charge whatever the market will bear - I mean, who would admit to your spouse you bought that fine piece of jewelry at a warehouse club? People end up paying more simply due to a name.

Disney is an expensive vacation, any way you look at it. It is worth it however for me! That's why I still go, have an AP every year and stay at the Deluxe Resorts even though we have a vacation home 7 miles away. That doesn't mean I can have unreasonable expectations but it does mean I should be treated as well as any other guest with respect, dignity and courtesy. Which we do receive from almost all CM's.

My issues with Disney:

Actually, I don't have many. I think Disney is a model of how a corporation should be run. Over the past few years however, I believe the focus or paradigm has changed and I see things slipping somewhat. I don't like the pricing changes. I don't appreciate surcharges on buffets. I don't like the "sales". Instead of offering free dining or free tickets, why not just keep prices at reasonable levels? I will never pay $7.69 for a turkey leg and I will not pay $38.00 for a Boma Buffet.

Bottom line, I feel the focus on pricing marginalizes the customer and those of us whom visit frequently, know how much it's being done.

For the time being, I will remain a loyal Disney fan and patron. While I find some attention to detail is slipping, it is still exceptional. I love being there and I will continue to be there unless the cost eventually gets too prohibitive.

BTW:

Goofy4prez: Awesome post there my friend! Next year, the Dole Whips on me!

 

[Pirate Jeff]

**
heheheehe! Yeah, we have to put together another DIS meet! How bout inviting everyone on this thread!? LOL! Remember the golden rule what happens at Disney stays in Disney! LOL!

Hands down!!!!!!

 

[smidgy]

And I think that's the crux of the issue. And it isn't just WDW - throughout the entire consumer marketplace, what's changed more than anything else is the extent to which consumers based their expectations on what they want instead of what they're promised. That is mostly what creates the gulf between what they expect and what they receive.

not true. I base my expectations on what I have received in the past. I simply expect the same level of service.

 

[KellyNY]

I had thought I was done posting on this thread but as it continues to progress, some words need to be said! I decline to quote individual posts as it is clear some POV's are shared. I do appreciate however, those with differences respecting each other....., with only a few exceptions, this thread has been cordial and respectful and in my opinion, fairly positive!

That said, there are a few points I'd like to address:

On why the MODS have left this thread open:

I personally, am glad they have. I know for a fact that CM's and other Disney Employees participate on this board. Many legitimate issues have been discussed here, from pricing to attitudes to ergonomics. I think it's wonderful, that service providers have a venue to communicate with customers or at least, view those customer's concerns. Many things cannot change but some can.

On why we complain:

This is a bit redundant but, as has been stated before, we are paying for a product and have expectations of that product. Many analogies have been offered, some very exceptional (I love the "New Coke" reference...- awesome!). Has anyone gone to a restaurant and seen those 3X5 cards asking for an evaluation? Consider this thread in lieu of those cards. On a previous stay at the CR, I got one sent in the mail to go online and fill out an assessment. That was the only opportunity I had to offer feedback that had been requested. We can do this anytime to a CM or manager but here on this thread, we can do it in more detail.

As I wrote earlier, Disney set the standard, we just expect them to maintain it. Nothing more.

On the cost:

The price of everything is going up. We all know this. We also know the economy is tight right now. Raising prices during times like this sends a bad message to your customers. Not only have prices gone up but the frequency of the increases along with the level of the increase is not in line with inflation.

I recently bought a pair of 14k gold hoop earrings for DW. I went to a large department store first and the clerk showed me a pair that she said was regularly: $550.00 but were on sale for: $235.00. I politely told her: "No thank you". I then went to a well known warehouse store where the identical earrings were: $69.00.

Two points here. When a company puts a product "on sale", it is usually only reducing the mark up. The other point, that companies will charge whatever the market will bear - I mean, who would admit to your spouse you bought that fine piece of jewelry at a warehouse club? People end up paying more simply due to a name.

Disney is an expensive vacation, any way you look at it. It is worth it however for me! That's why I still go, have an AP every year and stay at the Deluxe Resorts even though we have a vacation home 7 miles away. That doesn't mean I can have unreasonable expectations but it does mean I should be treated as well as any other guest with respect, dignity and courtesy. Which we do receive from almost all CM's.

My issues with Disney:

Actually, I don't have many. I think Disney is a model of how a corporation should be run. Over the past few years however, I believe the focus or paradigm has changed and I see things slipping somewhat. I don't like the pricing changes. I don't appreciate surcharges on buffets. I don't like the "sales". Instead of offering free dining or free tickets, why not just keep prices at reasonable levels? I will never pay $7.69 for a turkey leg and I will not pay $38.00 for a Boma Buffet.

Bottom line, I feel the focus on pricing marginalizes the customer and those of us whom visit frequently, know how much it's being done.

For the time being, I will remain a loyal Disney fan and patron. While I find some attention to detail is slipping, it is still exceptional. I love being there and I will continue to be there unless the cost eventually gets too prohibitive.

BTW:

Goofy4prez: Awesome post there my friend! Next year, the Dole Whips on me!

Great post Jeff.

 

[brunette8706]

not true. I base my expectations on what I have received in the past. I simply expect the same level of service.

*
Exactly Smidgy! So do most people!

 

[brunette8706]

Hands down!!!!!!

*********
Now that's funny!

 

[disneyfan55]

And I think that's the crux of the issue. And it isn't just WDW - throughout the entire consumer marketplace, what's changed more than anything else is the extent to which consumers based their expectations on what they want instead of what they're promised. That is mostly what creates the gulf between what they expect and what they receive.

Yes, but to me WDW has always been a little different. I guess I do wish all was as perfect as it was back maybe the first 15 years of going. To me WDW was a much cleaner/perfect place. I always did it on a budget one way or another. We travelled Cross country quite a few times and did those trips the same way. Also, we have taken a few cruises, the most expensive being Alaska over 10 years ago. Now I look for bargains there as well The last cruise was on Princess for 479pp (yes add $70 for tips and 50 for the taxes ) but still very inexpensive when you consider travel, food and entertainment is included for the most part (of course you can spend quite a bit more if you like) We try to go on vacation for the most part as inexpensively as we can so we can go more often.

Getting back to Disney, yes, some things have changed since we started going in 1976. Parks are not as well kept and the CMs not always as nice or knowing. I don't know but over the years WDW has changed (not talking costs) in quality. While it's not the worst thing in the world, posters are just answering the OPs question. By the way over the past 5 or so years NOT much change (except in price) Over the last 35, yes, changes in quality. Just my thoughts.

 

[KellyNY]

However, you're not digging deep enough: Businesses pursue profit, not for its own merit, but rather to further the financial interests of their owners, which again comes back to society, such as the folks in society who invest their savings, for vacations, for college, for retirement, etc., in stocks, mutual funds, etc. It still comes back to people - on you and me - no matter how you slice it. Those unreasonable expectations we collectively hold as consumers, well we hold comparable expectations when we're investors as well. And that's what drives the way things are.

But digging all the way to China does not bring good result as well.

 

[Tiger926]

I had thought I was done posting on this thread but as it continues to progress, some words need to be said! I decline to quote individual posts as it is clear some POV's are shared. I do appreciate however, those with differences respecting each other....., with only a few exceptions, this thread has been cordial and respectful and in my opinion, fairly positive!

That said, there are a few points I'd like to address:

On why the MODS have left this thread open:

I personally, am glad they have. I know for a fact that CM's and other Disney Employees participate on this board. Many legitimate issues have been discussed here, from pricing to attitudes to ergonomics. I think it's wonderful, that service providers have a venue to communicate with customers or at least, view those customer's concerns. Many things cannot change but some can.

On why we complain:

This is a bit redundant but, as has been stated before, we are paying for a product and have expectations of that product. Many analogies have been offered, some very exceptional (I love the "New Coke" reference...- awesome!). Has anyone gone to a restaurant and seen those 3X5 cards asking for an evaluation? Consider this thread in lieu of those cards. On a previous stay at the CR, I got one sent in the mail to go online and fill out an assessment. That was the only opportunity I had to offer feedback that had been requested. We can do this anytime to a CM or manager but here on this thread, we can do it in more detail.

As I wrote earlier, Disney set the standard, we just expect them to maintain it. Nothing more.

On the cost:

The price of everything is going up. We all know this. We also know the economy is tight right now. Raising prices during times like this sends a bad message to your customers. Not only have prices gone up but the frequency of the increases along with the level of the increase is not in line with inflation.

I recently bought a pair of 14k gold hoop earrings for DW. I went to a large department store first and the clerk showed me a pair that she said was regularly: $550.00 but were on sale for: $235.00. I politely told her: "No thank you". I then went to a well known warehouse store where the identical earrings were: $69.00.

Two points here. When a company puts a product "on sale", it is usually only reducing the mark up. The other point, that companies will charge whatever the market will bear - I mean, who would admit to your spouse you bought that fine piece of jewelry at a warehouse club? People end up paying more simply due to a name.

Disney is an expensive vacation, any way you look at it. It is worth it however for me! That's why I still go, have an AP every year and stay at the Deluxe Resorts even though we have a vacation home 7 miles away. That doesn't mean I can have unreasonable expectations but it does mean I should be treated as well as any other guest with respect, dignity and courtesy. Which we do receive from almost all CM's.

My issues with Disney:

Actually, I don't have many. I think Disney is a model of how a corporation should be run. Over the past few years however, I believe the focus or paradigm has changed and I see things slipping somewhat. I don't like the pricing changes. I don't appreciate surcharges on buffets. I don't like the "sales". Instead of offering free dining or free tickets, why not just keep prices at reasonable levels? I will never pay $7.69 for a turkey leg and I will not pay $38.00 for a Boma Buffet.

Bottom line, I feel the focus on pricing marginalizes the customer and those of us whom visit frequently, know how much it's being done.

For the time being, I will remain a loyal Disney fan and patron. While I find some attention to detail is slipping, it is still exceptional. I love being there and I will continue to be there unless the cost eventually gets too prohibitive.

BTW:

Goofy4prez: Awesome post there my friend! Next year, the Dole Whips on me!

Great post!

not true. I base my expectations on what I have received in the past. I simply expect the same level of service.

I will almost agree totally with this - if Disney wants to give me more attractions and improve the parks, then I'm all for that, as those would be areas that are different than what I've experienced before. But, when they suddenly struggle to clean rooms properly, then I have a problem. I just want a clean room - I don't want a butler and maid waiting for me at door, unless I've paid for that. That would be a ridiculous expectation. It irritates the heck out of me when people automatically assume though that 1) your expectations are too high, and 2) that you should just accept problems or stop going. Seriously? This is how people conduct their lives? I highly doubt it - if people aren't critical and assess/evaluate life's experiences, then they are highly irresponsible, IMHO. What a ridiculous ascertation! So, if your surgeon makes a major error or changes the procedure during surgery, I would expect those OPs above to just pay the bill and shut up!

It is also insulting to those of us who are regulars. As a DVC member I've spent $40,000 to purchase DVC, so obviously I enjoy WDW, and to assume that I somehow have higher expectations is ridiculous. I expect my room to be clean, I expect edible food, and I expect good entertainment in the parks - most of the time, I get these things, but as of late, even simple tasks seem to be difficult for Disney as we've all been discussing. Sure there are those who want the moon, but Disney really isn't catering to those people anyway. We are very low maintenance people who leave our room as clean or cleaner than when we arrived, clean up our kids' messes in restaurants (buss our own tables), and never, ever break any park rules. We are great guests, with pretty basic expectations - treat us like you have in the past, and if you can't, give us a good reason why not. Charging us a buffet surcharge on June 1st, but not on May 31st, is ridiculous. That is a profit grab, pure and simple. There isn't anymore staff on hand, there aren't anymore food products on the buffet either - pure profit. These little things drive us crazy!

We don't expect Disney to stay the same, nor do we expect to not make a profit. We expect Disney to grow and change...if not, there would only be Magic Kingdom. They must make a profit, or there isn't anymore Disney...but charging $8.00 for a turkey leg because turkey meat has gone up in price is one thing, charging it because you are taking advantage of guests is another, and charging it because you need to make up revenue from other lost divisions within your company, is quite another. I feel that it is more than likely number 2 and 3, since I just paid $1.00 for a bigger turkey leg at the butcher the other day. The Dining Plan has gone up by $10.00 in a few years, not to mention by adding in the absence of appetizer and removal of tips, it's gone up way more! So, how does Disney answer this - by giving it away for free! Brilliant...except for those of us who pay cash. There is a threshold somewhere, and chances are guests are at that level, or Disney wouldn't be giving dining away free for the next year.

If Disney was truly confident in their products and services, they would not offer any discounts or promos at all - we have many businesses in town who do this, as well as many designer and name brand companies who do this (eg. coupons are not allowed) as well. They are offering discounts and promos because it's too expensive for most guests - that's why rooms are empty, and the best way to fill them is with discounts.

Much of this thread is still hurting my head, but I am following along as there have been some great points made.

Brunette: Wondering how Brunette would assess this current trip? Did it meet your expectations?

Tiger

 

[KellyNY]

**
heheheehe! Yeah, we have to put together another DIS meet! How bout inviting everyone on this thread!? LOL! Remember the golden rule what happens at Disney stays in Disney! LOL!

Love that.

 

[brunette8706]

Great post!



Exactly! It irritates the heck out of me when people automatically assume that 1)your expectations are too high, and 2) that you should just accept problems or stop going. Seriously? This is how people conduct their lives? I highly doubt it - if people aren't critical and assess/evaluate life's experiences, then they are highly irresponsible, IMHO. What a ridiculous ascertation!

It is also insulting to those of us who are regulars. As a DVC member I've spent $40,000 to purchase DVC, so obviously I enjoy WDW, and to assume that I somehow have higher expectations is ridiculous. I expect my room to be clean, I expect edible food, and I expect good entertainment in the parks -most of the time, I get these things, but as of late, even simple tasks seem to be difficult for Disney as we've all been discussing. We are very low maintenance people who leave our room as clean or cleaner than when we arrived, clean up our kids' messes in restaurants (buss our own tables), and never, ever break any park rules. We are great guests, with pretty basic expectations - treat us like you have in the past, and if you can't, give us a good reason why not. Charging us a buffet surcharge on June 1st, but not on May 31st, is ridiculous. That is a profit grab, pure and simple. There isn't anymore staff on hand, there aren't anymore food products on the buffet either - pure profit. These little things drive us crazy!

Much of this thread is still hurting my head, but I am following along as there have been some great points made.

Brunette: Wondering how Brunette would assess this current trip? Did it meet your expectations?
Tiger

*
Hi Tiger-

I'm going to a meeting will answer when I get back. I'll give ya my "trip report".

Talk soon. Brunette

 

[brunette8706]

Love that.

**
LOL! Wouldn't that be great!

We can make an ADR for 25 people at BOMA or Ohana!

 

[Tiger926]

*
Hi Tiger-

I'm going to a meeting will answer when I get back. I'll give ya my "trip report".

Talk soon. Brunette

Looking forward to hearing it - I know you loved the Yacht Club, so can't wait to hear your final assessment!

Tiger

 

[bicker]

Has anyone gone to a restaurant and seen those 3X5 cards asking for an evaluation? Consider this thread in lieu of those cards.

Disney does surveys. This thread is not in lieu of those surveys, and the idea of superseding normalized data with non-normalized data is very strange. No one would actually do that.

As I wrote earlier, Disney set the standard, we just expect them to maintain it.

Yet, many of the expectations people hold go beyond the standard that Disney set.

Raising prices during times like this sends a bad message to your customers.

There is no reason to believe that raising prices is appreciated - ever. Even if there was, it would therefore be natural to raise prices when the economy is in recovery, as has been for the last eight or nine months. Beyond that, comparing Disney to the premium service providers in other industry shows that Disney isn't raising prices without good company. And indeed, consumers complain about those good companies as well... the only common thread is that consumers complain about prices. They just do.

Bottom line, I feel the focus on pricing marginalizes the customer

But respects the investor.

 

[bicker]

the extent to which consumers base their expectations on what they want instead of what they're promised

not true. I base my expectations on what I have received in the past. I simply expect the same level of service.

In other words, you want what you have received in the past, rather than what you're being promised now.

 

[bicker]

Yes, but to me WDW has always been a little different.

So have many other companies. You just happened to have chosen to elevate Disney over those others, perhaps because you're fan. However, Disney has contemporaries in many service sectors. But regardless of it all, there are only really one thing that matters - that has ever mattered in the common era: Are these premiums services worth the premium to enough customers?

However, you're not digging deep enough: Businesses pursue profit, not for its own merit, but rather to further the financial interests of their owners, which again comes back to society, such as the folks in society who invest their savings, for vacations, for college, for retirement, etc., in stocks, mutual funds, etc. It still comes back to people - on you and me - no matter how you slice it. Those unreasonable expectations we collectively hold as consumers, well we hold comparable expectations when we're investors as well. And that's what drives the way things are.

But digging all the way to China does not bring good result as well.

That's unnecessary. It is necessary only to dig one level lower to get from a company to its owners.

It irritates the heck out of me when people automatically assume that 1) your expectations are too high, and 2) that you should just accept problems or stop going.

With regard to #1: How much does it irritate you to receive what you were promised instead of what you expected, when you expected more than you were promised? What value does it add to your experience to base your expectations on something other than what your supplier is offering? How is it less irritating to be disappointed and disaffected, as opposed to cognizant of what you're promised and what you can reliably count-on receiving?

With regard to #2, the issue is that as long as enough people reward service providers for providing what they provide how they provide it for the price they provide it, they would be idiots to suddenly throw all that success away.

What a ridiculous ascertation!

The assertion that it is ridiculous to expect what you're promised is a ridiculous assertion.

So, if your surgeon makes a major error or changes the procedure during surgery, I would expect those OPs above to just pay the bill and shut up!

That's a red herring. Presumably your surgeon promised you their best efforts. If they didn't provide you that, then you have every right to be upset.

It is also insulting to those of us who are regulars.

You can choose to perceive it as your service provide insulting you, but that's not at all what it is. They're simply not offering what you want.

If Disney was truly confident in their products and services, they would not offer any discounts or promos at all

What proof do you have for that? There is no correlation between confidence in products and the offering of discounts.

 

[jimmymac]

4. no way to prove this unless one has access to Disney's employee database

Did you miss the announcement a while back that Disney was reducing staff levels by 1500 (not a typo) at the parks in Orlando? And that it would have 'no discernible impact on guest services'? The former is factual; the latter is what is being debated on this thread. I've been going to WDW for more than 15 years and to claim that the level of service has not declined is akin to claiming the world is flat

 

[KellyNY]

With regard to #2, the issue is that as long as enough people reward service providers for providing what they provide how they provide it for the price they provide it, they would be idiots to suddenly throw all that success away.

Considering how many discounts and offers they have to run to fill room, changes aren't that successful.