do you ever feel guilty?

[crisi]

Ok, I'll give this a shot.

Young people by definition are young and inexperienced and usually have not yet had the time or ability to make large sums of money.

The cost of college has outpaced inflation every year for years. There was a time that somebody could work a Summer job and wash dishes in the cafeteria for 10 hours a week to make enough money to go to school. That is not true today.

I have seen kids from poor backgrounds face this. They either end up dropping out or having unrealistically high student loans that will stop them from enjoying adult life at all.

Financial aid professionals speak of the 1/3-1/3-1/3 rule . Parents, student jobs, loans each paying 1/3.

As for loans, I say take what you need , but need what you take...and be realistic about where you want to go. Avoid debt if at all possible .

I do believe some kids can come up with the money themselves but it would require quite the entrepreneurial spirit at a very early age .

On the flip side, I went to a state college that specialized in working adults. I graduated with a bunch of people who did it on their own while working full time. Now, it often took them eight or ten years to graduate. And many of them did nothing but work and go to school. And the school itself doesn't have a great reputation. Some of them had loans, but since a full load was around $8k a year, there loans upon graduation tended to be more in the $20k range than the $50k range. And subsidized since they tended to be under the limit. But to federal loans, they had to go full time - so they were working 40 hours to support themselves (and in some cases families) and carrying a full load so they could get loans - a lot of people who were in that situation didn't make it through.

I have a good friend who teaches at a community college. She has had a number of students who live in their car and shower in the school locker rooms so they can afford school.

But my kids - I can at least afford to make sure that they aren't trying to work full time and go to school full time so their tuition bills get paid. Or that they aren't deciding between tuition and an apartment. It might mean trashed carpet and some cheap vacations.

 

[sophiasapientia]

My DH's parents both passed away before reaching retirement age and DH has some health concerns so these factors play into our decision making process.

We live modestly, well below our means and completely debt free, and save aggressively for our future. Budgeting for a really nice vacation every year or so has become a high priority for us. Would it be wiser to use the allotted vacation fund to top off our retirement or college savings? We've decided that we need to balance planning for our future with enjoying today because we are uncertain of what tomorrow may hold. The memories that we create during these trips are priceless. No guilt, no regrets.

 

[emma'smom]

I remember visiting my father-in-law, stuck in a wheel chair that he couldn't wheel further than the kitchen floor on his own, who said "This isn't how I thought retirement would be. I thought we'd travel and see the world. This isn't what I had planned". He died a few years later---never having traveled and not really getting much further than that kitchen in those years.


Honestly, that 10 minute conversation really stuck with me---we travel as much as possible with our kids (and with my parents who are getting less mobile, but can still travel with some assistance from us). We do it at a pace where everyone can experience it together. While we don't bankrupt ourselves, we have put off replacing carpet or fancier furniture in favor of traveling---I figure I can always get new carpet later, I won't always be able to see Europe with my mother and my daughters while they are still young.

 

[LuvGoofy6]

I agree with this. Very well said!


No one is going to completely agree on this subject, which is why I stopped commenting on this thread. Especially when it was implied that service careers like teaching and nursing were careers someone would be "stuck" choosing because there's loan forgiveness involved if parents couldn't provide college funding. That's an unfair statement. Not everyone wants to or can afford the education beyond an associates or bachelors degree so they can be lawyers or doctors. Maybe making statements like that is what deters people from going to college and not just the lack of parent funded college funds.

The "stuck" comment bothered me, too. I'm a teacher and cringed that someone thinks we teach because we were "stuck" choosing that career. I love

I remember visiting my father-in-law, stuck in a wheel chair that he couldn't wheel further than the kitchen floor on his own, who said "This isn't how I thought retirement would be. I thought we'd travel and see the world. This isn't what I had planned". He died a few years later---never having traveled and not really getting much further than that kitchen in those years.

My mom was paralyzed at the age of 47 from an accident. She said the same thing and the sadness I felt when she said that came back to me when I read your response.

Everyone has to do what is best for them. I worked full time all the way through college and still took loans out because I went to a private school. My husband used his GI Bill. Our choice is to help our kids as much as we can but that isn't the answer for everyone. Losing my mom at 54 taught us that we need to do things now and not say, "there is time for traveling later." Does that mean Disney every year? No. But it does mean we take time away from our busy schedules to enjoy ourselves as a family~and that may be a day of fishing, renting a cabin for a weekend, a trip to Minneapolis, a visit to family, a family game night or a Disney trip...all with no guilt.

 

[abmitch01]

perfectly said

 

[Colleen27]

I have seen kids from poor backgrounds face this. They either end up dropping out or having unrealistically high student loans that will stop them from enjoying adult life at all.

I really wish that schools would better tailor their approach to local realities in this case. I know so many kids that either didn't go to college or didn't finish because of the debt load that a four year degree would take, and they don't have college funds not because they're well traveled but because in a community with a median income in the mid-30K range most families simply cannot save enough to make a meaningful dent in college costs. But the school still pushes the four year university as the One. Right. Goal. We have a good community college with a number of vocational programs and 2+2 agreements, and the cost of attendance there is such that the Pell grant is enough to cover full-time enrollment, but are counselors telling kids this? No, they're talking about how to fund the $80K bill for four years at university, mostly by borrowing sums of money that are virtually unimaginable to a kid from a lower-income background.

I graduated high school with $25,000 in the bank all earned by babysitting and working at fast food places. But I hear so many of my friends saying "I don't want my child working while in school" but I say "why the heck not?" No one could have been busier than my son in school - he played 3 varsity sports, was class president and had a 4.0 average yet he worked from the time he was twelve. He started mowing lawns and shoveling snow, and when he was 16 then he worked construction during the summers and did tutoring and taught swim lessons during the school year. And he continued throughout college helping to pay his expenses.
Having worked at a high school I saw that the busiest kids were the most disciplined and made the best use of their time, not to mention kept out of trouble. When we coddle our kids, they lose out on life lessons such as budgeting, time management and a good work ethic.

I think this depends hugely on the local economy/job market and expectations of students. Around here it is mostly the "burnout" kids that work, because we have few employers willing to hire teens to begin with and even fewer willing to work around the hectic schedule of an involved teen. But some of the jobs you describe aren't open to teens around here; you generally have to be 18 to work construction or teach swim, our lifeguards are volunteers, and tutoring is provided free of charge by the NHS so there's not a great demand for paid tutors. It wasn't like that where I grew up (in suburbia) - fast food and retail places were more accommodating of teen employees' schedules, lifeguards were always high school and college kids, and there were a lot more options for young people interested in working. But that's one of the trade-offs of living in a small town, I suppose.

DS's friends who work aren't involved in school activities, and his friends and teammates who are involved at school tend not to work except in a here-and-there/when I have time capacity (cutting grass or babysitting, for example). DS probably won't hold a job while he's in high school - DH and FIL both put him to work from time to time and he's done some artistic metalworking that has sold, so he does earn his own spending money and is slowly saving for a car, but the scheduled teen job options in our area don't work for a kid as active as he is.

 

[abmitch01]

our son has no idea what he wants to be when he finishes college. He is a junior. So he is studying music (his passion but knows this likely won't lead to job prospects) at our community college for two years. the guidance counselor was very helpful in pointing out that a community college would be a good starting point for him. The thing I find odd is the cost of community college tuition is the same as the state school. So I kind of wanted him to do the state school but he doesn't feel ready for that.

we ask our kids to make major life decisions so young. I chose nursing in high school and luckily I love it but I didn't get a lot of guidance as to what else was out there.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I thank my lucky stars every day that I was so blessed to have the best of both worlds. I was able to travel the world with my family, which gave me great perspective and a better understanding of the world at large.

I also got to attend the university of my choice (~45k/per year) so long as I finished in four years and graduated with two degrees (I guess the thinking was to increase marketability).

I'm sure this will make many of you faint lol but I still ended up with just around 200k in student loans, I finished in '11 and luckily it's down to 82k now but still a lot haha I went back to undergrad and then a follow on masters degree.

I'm not the average student and knew I could afford to go back to school the way I did. Most of the kids I went through the second time with are now working min. Wage jobs with 60k in student loans. It was my oddball mishmash of education and work plus my experiences (outside my current field) that made me employable.

It's tough out there, my industry has only a 2% unemployment rate. To the point where my company offers a pretty big bonus to folks that recommend somebody that gets hired. But it's extremely tough to break into. Jobs can afford to be picky since the economy is what it is and folks fresh out of school rarely have a shot.

 

[EMode]

our son has no idea what he wants to be when he finishes college. He is a junior. So he is studying music (his passion but knows this likely won't lead to job prospects) at our community college for two years. the guidance counselor was very helpful in pointing out that a community college would be a good starting point for him. The thing I find odd is the cost of community college tuition is the same as the state school. So I kind of wanted him to do the state school but he doesn't feel ready for that.

we ask our kids to make major life decisions so young. I chose nursing in high school and luckily I love it but I didn't get a lot of guidance as to what else was out there.

I'm looking at your location and if you are talking about the CC and the state U I'm thinking of then those costs are not the same at all (unless your ds has to pay a fee greater than the tuition for his major.)
We were just pricing those schools out for dd since we are from that area and she can live with relatives while attending either one. The CC is significantly less for those first 2 years

 

[ski_mom]

I thank my lucky stars every day that I was so blessed to have the best of both worlds. I was able to travel the world with my family, which gave me great perspective and a better understanding of the world at large.

I also got to attend the university of my choice (~45k/per year) so long as I finished in four years and graduated with two degrees (I guess the thinking was to increase marketability).

I'm sure this will make many of you faint lol but I still ended up with just around 200k in student loans, I finished in '11 and luckily it's down to 82k now but still a lot haha I went back to undergrad and then a follow on masters degree.

I'm not the average student and knew I could afford to go back to school the way I did. Most of the kids I went through the second time with are now working min. Wage jobs with 60k in student loans. It was my oddball mishmash of education and work plus my experiences (outside my current field) that made me employable.

It's tough out there, my industry has only a 2% unemployment rate. To the point where my company offers a pretty big bonus to folks that recommend somebody that gets hired. But it's extremely tough to break into. Jobs can afford to be picky since the economy is what it is and folks fresh out of school rarely have a shot.

May I ask what field you're in? I have 2 DDs that will be going off to college over the next 3 years and they are both pretty up in the air about what they want to do.

I love hearing about what fields are good to get into - it is something we talk about often.

Thanks!

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

May I ask what field you're in? I have 2 DDs that will be going off to college over the next 3 years and they are both pretty up in the air about what they want to do. I love hearing about what fields are good to get into - it is something we talk about often. Thanks!

I'm in software development. It was slated as the top of the best 100 jobs list for 2014. I love it and would never work in any other field, but I also love technology.

The are so so many opportunities both in education and jobs for women in STEM fields. Most girls don't lean towards those tracks out of high school. It takes being a bit technologically inclined and realizing you'll be in a male dominated (that's changing, yay!) field but it's something to think about.

There are opportunities at private companies and many many aerospace and defense companies as well (totally different environments). Some jobs/skills that are needed in software dev:

Software engineer (programmer)
Quality assurance (tester)
Technical writer
Product/project management
IT/support
Then the less technical
Marketing
Sales
Finance

So many people (women especially) think you have to be a programmer. There are so many ways to get involved in software and tech dev

 

[ski_mom]

I'm in software development. It was slated as the top of the best 100 jobs list for 2014. I love it and would never work in any other field, but I also love technology.

The are so so many opportunities both in education and jobs for women in STEM fields. Most girls don't lean towards those tracks out of high school. It takes being a bit technologically inclined and realizing you'll be in a male dominated (that's changing, yay!) field but it's something to think about.

There are opportunities at private companies and many many aerospace and defense companies as well (totally different environments). Some jobs/skills that are needed in software dev:

Software engineer (programmer)
Quality assurance (tester)
Technical writer
Product/project management
IT/support
Then the less technical
Marketing
Sales
Finance

So many people (women especially) think you have to be a programmer. There are so many ways to get involved in software and tech dev

Thanks for the information! One more question - what are your degrees in?

 

[Dakota731]

But the school still pushes the four year university as the One

I agree!! After hearing on the news that only half of 20 somethings are employed in the field they majored in, I think students need to consider community colleges which are sometimes less than 1/4 the cost of even low priced universities. The one in our town even has four year degrees now with a higher employment rate than nearby pricier colleges. Another idea is vocational technical high schools where graduates can study plumbing, electrical contracting, auto mechanics etc and often earn much more than many college grads without the debt!