Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

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kiddo76

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
  • Making abortion illegal or legal has no effect on the total number of abortions performed in the world. Making abortion legal dramaticallyreduces maternal morbidity and mortality.
This needs to be posted over and over and yelled from the hilltops. I am pro-choice and pro-life. I want to eliminate the factors that put women in the desperate position of seeking an abortion. The best way to prevent abortions is not by making it illegal, but by providing all women affordable access to health and social services.
 

Wishing on a star

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
According to this, for 2017
www.acf.hhs.gov/cb/resource/trends-in-foster-care-and-adoption

Estimated children served by public foster care - 691,000
Of these, children who have had parental rights terminated 69,500 (roughly 0nly 10%)
Total number of children who are cleared and waiting for adoption 123,000
Of these, number of children adopted 59,400 (roughly one half)

Most children in the system are not currently cleared and waiting to be adopted.
And, of the number of children that are waiting for adoption, I would venture to guess that many of these are older children, with serious issues (psychological, health, otherwise) that are just going to make them difficult to place.

If there is any infant or young child (possible abortion) in the system, I absolutely do not think that the issue is that there are not parents... It is that the SYSTEM is not working.

Yes, things have improved. But, I know more people who have adopted from outside of the US, because at the time, it just was not working to adopt in their own state.

The assumption that an infant that might have been 'terminated' would be in the system, and is bound to be a future criminal, etc...
WOW... Just WOW. :sad2:
 
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Prince_Hawkins

Mouseketeer
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
I guess my perspective on this is unconventional.

I'm a gay male, and I don't have any desire to raise kids with my future husband. So I don't believe I should have a say in what another woman does or doesn't do with her body.

For this reason, I'm 100% in favor of abortion being a legal option for any woman for any reason -- anytime up until the baby is about to be delivered.

Generally, I wouldn't support partial-birth abortion...except if a doctor determines it's medically-necessary to save the woman's life. And even then, those instances are extremely rare.

This whole "infanticide" controversy is just a manufactured wedge issue created by people who want abortion to be illegal across-the-board.

Legislators and pundits need to quit trying to practice medicine without a license.

I support women who choose to either get an abortion or give their baby up for adoption. If the biological father can take care of the child, he should be allowed to have sole custody if the woman wants to sign away her parental rights. Vice versa -- if the woman wants to raise the child as a single mother, and the biological father wants to sign away his parental rights.

There needs to be a maximization of choice.
 
  • JaxDad

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 23, 2014
    I generally avoid the abortion debate, because like many such issues no one is going to change anyone else's mind, especially on a Disney-centric message board. I very much respect people who have truly given it serious thought AND are willing to respect others' perspectives.

    To me, it really comes down to one's personal opinion on when the fetus becomes a human. If someone sincerely believes it is not a human until birth (or maybe at some other development milestone during the pregnancy), then they would also logically believe that abortion is just another medical procedure and their rights should be protected and not limited in any way.

    And, if someone sincerely believes the fetus is a human at conception (or again at some other development milestone during the pregnancy), then they would also logically believe that the human, though still unborn, has the same rights as other humans which should be protected and not limited in any way.

    To me it really is just that one opinion that should shape a thoughtful person's perspective. They should also understand and respect that other thoughtful people may have a different perspective. And again, I doubt anyone here will change anyone else's mind. That can probably only happen through personal experience.
     

    luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    luvsJack, I think that you might be one of those people who believe that if things don't happen in your little world, that they don't happen anywhere.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/05/brian-sims-confronts-protesters-planned-parenthood/589174/

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-abortion-clinics-face-surge-of-trespassing-and-blockades/

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=abortion+clinic+protestors&view=detail&mid=2ED417276A6887122B082ED417276A6887122B08&FORM=VIRE

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=abortion+clinic+protestors&&view=detail&mid=40120E2D240217DE480C40120E2D240217DE480C&&FORM=VDRVRV

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=abortion+clinic+protestors&&view=detail&mid=EBBD46CF98C81DBD56A7EBBD46CF98C81DBD56A7&&FORM=VDRVRV


    I was one of those women who had to march past the protestors on my way into PP, at 16, to get birth control.

    I was one of those women who had to march past the protestors on my way into PP, at the age of 21, to have an abortion.

    I was one of those women who had to march past the protestors on my way into PP, from the age of 30 to 35 (ish) to escort frightened and angry young women into the clinics for whatever reason they were there.

    I don't have the right to tell you to cut your hair, lose 20 pounds, get botox, use an IUD instead of the rhythm method, have your extra 11th toe removed, or any thing else. You don't have the right to tell me what to do with my body. Until you are living in my skin, you have zero business telling me what to do.
    No I don't think that. I do see these things on the news and I know they happen and I think its horrible. But because its happening in one place doesn't mean its happening in every place either. And that is something some of you do not understand.

    NONE of the things you list has any affect on another living being.
     

    luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    You must be aware that this statistic does not necessarily indicate "from birth". The older the child gets, the less likely they are to be adopted.

    Because he didn't get to choose which hammer to use?
    Babies do not tend to be in foster care from birth. They are adopted easily.
     
  • cabanafrau

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 10, 2006
    The numbers in public foster care don't tell anywhere near the whole story.

    Unfortunately it's not at all uncommon for babies to be in foster care from birth. To say that they are easily adopted is woefully ill informed. Because the goal of family reunification is always paramount, most cases go on for several years for a myriad of complex reasons that wouldn't begin to be adequately discussed in conversation here.

    ETA: Even when parental rights are voluntarily relinquished there is a waiting period in place for appellate process, despite the fact that there is a provision within the voluntary relinquishment that states reversal is barred. Most terminations of rights are involuntary and the waiting period for the appeals process to be completed adds a significant amount of time before children are deemed available for adoption placement.
     
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    jalapeno_pretzel

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 13, 2015
    Here's another policy ... the so called "gag rule." Anti-choice celebrate every time the gag rule gets re-established, however multiple studies show that it actually increases rates of abortion. When the rule is in place, women in Africa are up to three times more likely to have an abortion. So if you support someone who enacts the gag rule, you are directly increasing the abortion rate - or "getting behind killing it" as you put it.
    It’s pro life, not anti choice. I know it’s hard for pro choice to accept they are actually pro death and want to gloss it over.
    So do you care to address the comment itself that the gag rule you likely support leads a woman to be 3x more likely to abort? That doesn't sound very pro-life to me, so you're right, I have a hard time calling it that.
    Why does no one who likely agrees with and celebrated the re-institution of the gag rule want to address the issue that this decision that they fully support directly results in a greater number of abortions? You say you don't want there to be abortions and that it's wrong but then you support a policy that increases abortions? That doesn't make any sense.
     

    lifesavacation

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 24, 2016
    I don't know much about the states that are passing anti-abortion legislation, but I wonder how many of them support pro-family policies like paid family/maternity leave, paid sick leave, increasing minimum wages, childcare subsidies, etc. If you truly want all women, including those who are impoverished, to have more children, then these states should be at the forefront of making sure all women and children are well cared for.

    And this is just my personal opinion, but I believe we would be further along with pro-family policies in the workplace if women weren't underrepresented in CEO positions.
     
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    pezgirlroy

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 29, 2016
    I don't know much about the states that are passing anti-abortion legislation, but I wonder how many of them support pro-family policies like paid family/maternity leave, paid sick leave, increasing minimum wages, childcare subsidies, etc. If you truly want all women, including those who are impoverished, to have more children, then these states should be at the forefront of making sure all women and children are well cared for.

    And this is just my personal opinion, but I believe we would be further along with pro-family policies in the workplace if women weren't underrepresented in CEO positions.
    Alabama has horrible education rates and very high infant mortality rates.
     

    FlightlessDuck

    Y kant Donald fly?
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2006
    I think one of the big things that get overlooked in the abortion debate is the fact that a vast majority of people (not everybody, but a majority) don't think abortion is a good thing. While pro-choice proponents think it should be legal, only a minority of them actually think abortion, in general, is a "good thing". Like all health care, it's expensive and has its risks. There's a stigma around it. And there is certainly a psychological toll that is placed on the mother.

    Abortion is a symptom of a bigger issue -- unwanted pregnancy. You want to prevent abortion? Prevent unwanted pregnancy.

    Alabama, meanwhile, emphasizes abstinence education, and has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country (source). Perhaps they are going about their problems the wrong way.

    Okarmus said she has heard many stories of schools using crude examples to enforce abstinence in teens. Those who had sex before marriage were illustrated as chewed gum or a glass of murky water. In one class, Okarmus said students were asked to pick petals off a rose as it was passed around class. The picked-apart rose was supposed to represent a "used" person, she said.
     

    mousefan73

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 9, 2012
    One of the things that is getting lost in these discussions is that there are many woman who do not want to abort. The pregnancy is a very wanted pregnancy but do to factors related to health and other things it is the best decision (even though it is the most heartbreaking/horrifying/difficult) decision that person will ever have to make. This decision is only to be made by the woman and her medical team.
    Happened to a colleague of mine.. Believe me her abortion was not a "choice". If she had a choice she would have chosen a safe preganancy with a healthy viable child. Both options were not on the table. What she went through was hell. And to think a committee full of men have the right to force other woman to deliver a dead baby while at the same time put your own life in danger but baffles and frightens me.
     

    Soldier's*Sweeties

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2009
    I don’t know what’s so hard to understand. Being pro-choice doesn’t mean you’re screaming, “Yes! Abort all the babies! Who cares???” It means you recognize that it’s not your place to judge or decide why or if a woman has one. Some people who are pro-choice even believe that life begins at conception... They just care about the life of the mother and the baby AFTER birth as well.
     

    FlightlessDuck

    Y kant Donald fly?
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2006
    It’s pro life, not anti choice. I know it’s hard for pro choice to accept they are actually pro death and want to gloss it over.
    Interestingly enough, due to how party lines fall with regard to these issues, most people who are pro-life (anti-abortion) are also pro death penalty and pro war. Meanwhile, most people who are pro-choice are also more likely to be against the death penalty and not pro war.

    Show me somebody who doesn't think abortion should be legal, is against the death penalty, and thinks the US's military budget should be cut in half. That person is pro-life.

    Edit: Oh, and don't forget nationalized healthcare. Somebody who is pro-life should be for nationalized healthcare, too. Because if you want everybody to live, they have to be healthy.
     

    Nancyg56

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 17, 2005
    1. How much harder does it need to be? One has to walk through protestors (at many clinics), being yelled at and ridiculed for their choice. One has to read a packet of information on what the abortion entails, and in many states (IDK how many), have to return to the clinic 24 hours later so that the information has had a chance to sink in. One is strapped to a table (at least ankles, but I've heard of thighs as well), given medication to numb (but not block all sensation), and then one waits. After, one is helped to stand, given instructions on what to do, and then is escorted out of the building, back into that crowd of protestors, who are now even more vicious in their comments. There is pain...physical and emotional and mental. An abortion is not something to take lightly. But it's utter crud that people are allowed to harass other people that way outside a medical clinic; there's no mandatory 24 hour waiting period to get an IUD or a tooth pulled or breast augmentation surgery; only for an abortion.

    2. Yeah, let's give free birth control! I'm all for that. But when the young girl goes to the clinic above to pick up those pills or get their shot, they have to wade through those protestors, and they are just as vicious to those girls getting BCP as they are with those getting an abortion. After all, how can they tell whose who? Most women getting an abortion are not getting one when they are showing a pregnancy, so how can you tell who is just getting BCP and who is getting an abortion? You can't. So they harass everyone. And the government keeps removing funding for those free birth control clinics, and women/children care clinics, and forget sex education...the old men in charge want it to be abstinance only. Do you really think that a 16 year old boy or girl will say "oh hey, I can't have sex until I married because old man says so"? Nope, they will do it anyways, but without the information that a condom can prevent an STD or that no BC is 100% effective.

    ETA: Sometimes there are videos involved in the process. I forgot to mention those.

    3. Those babies grow up into toddlers, who still need homes. Where are the people adopting them? Those toddlers grow up into children, who still need homes. Where are the people adopting them? Those children grow up to be teenagers, who still need homes. Where are the people adopting them? 100,000 kids in an adoptable system, but how many really get adopted? And those that aren't able to be adopted? Where are the people helping to raise them?

    The entire system is broken. And again, I'll say to you, my uterus, my business.
    My DD's gynecologist moved to a planned parenthood facility so my DD followed her there. Thankfully she has not been subjected to harassment as has been documented elsewhere, however she has been treated in a less than respectful way when her DR was listed at that pediatricians. She finally fired her and went to another Dr for our DGD.

    We cannot have this both ways. We cannot limit access to birth control and education, refuse the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, and then dump the responsibility of this child onto a parent or parents who either do not want it, or cannot handle it for whatever reason. We also must accept the fact that once some women carry a baby to term they may not be able to place the child up for adoption. If anyone believes that all women are created and live in the same culture, circumstances or life they are in they need to open their eyes. My goodness, if we all were living in an equitable situation this discussion would never need to take place.

    If 20 couples are applying to adopt each baby, how many babies are ending up staying in foster care? The average time for a child to be in foster care is 3 years. So that growing up in foster care isn't the norm. Many children are in foster care because of something their parents have done. Look at those 400,000 and tell me, how many should have died? How many of them would they mother have made that choice? Being a drug addict when your child is 7 doesn't mean you didn't want and love the baby when it was born. Foster care and abortion are not hand in hand necessarily.

    We have several clinics that give away birth control. None of them have anyone outside protesting. No one outside the Planned Parenthood clinic either. So that isn't the case everywhere.

    Same with your version of sex ed. Not like that everywhere.
    You need to consider that not all people what to adopt outside of their ethnic background and not all will adopt a drug addicted or special needs baby. My cousin is a lawyer with DCF in my State and he has a very sad job at times.

    The numbers in public foster care don't tell anywhere near the whole story.

    Unfortunately it's not at all uncommon for babies to be in foster care from birth. To say that they are easily adopted is woefully ill informed. Because the goal of family reunification is always paramount, most cases go on for several years for a myriad of complex reasons that wouldn't begin to be adequately discussed in conversation here.

    ETA: Even when parental rights are voluntarily relinquished there is a waiting period in place for appellate process, despite the fact that there is a provision within the voluntary relinquishment that states reversal is barred. Most terminations of rights are involuntary and the waiting period for the appeals process to be completed adds a significant amount of time before children are deemed available for adoption placement.
    My DS and DDIL are in the foster to adopt program and are all ready. They are as prepared as two people can be in regards to taking in a child whose parents have not relinquished parental rights but I am concerned. It is a long road, and as my cousin has pointed out to me that if the parents make an effort to "turn around" towards the end of the time frame in place before their rights are removed, all bets are off, and the time is extended. The goal is to reunite families, not to act as an adoption program for couples. Add in that these kids are often born addicted and may have challenges throughout their lives their chances dim as they linger in the program.

    AS to easily adopted? My goodness, nothing is further from the truth.
     
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