Do People really believe this?

[creativeamanda]

No, I haven't forgotten, buy your snarkiness is showing.



You really should consider how you demean and question the religious beliefs of others before you put forth accusations of intolerance against them.

You are adding bold in there where I did not place it. Could you read it without the bolding you put in there? Please? And in that last paragraph, place the emphasis in my prayer? Or maybe, I should just print my prayer. . .I only prayed it once, but I know it by heart. . .

"Whatever You need to do, why ever You need it, Lord, just don't let her hurt anymore."

Intolerance ends only when our prayers become submissive to what God would want and how He would want things. In trusting that His plan is going to be met. And asking Him to lead us in that manner. Do we fail as humans to be tolerant? Of course. That minister failed in his job as a minister to pray for God's will to be done. Instead of trusting that God's will would be best, he has to insert his wishes. I choose to not insert my wishes, (which are, btw, that McCain become president) which is not what this minister did. You just don't pray like that in public and not expect backlash over it.

If this hurts you because you feel I am being intolerant for the way you pray, let me tell you, I don't care how you pray in your own home. I don't care how you feel about how I feel about your prayer. You can pray however you want and it will not change the way I pray. But if you neglect that God is in control of this election and you neglect His will is going to be done, then you may have a surprise in November. Because I think that God's will will be that Obama becomes president. I feel He is calling me to vote for McCain, which I will gladly do, but I will need to prepare myself that Obama will probably become president. It will make me personally have to strengthen my belief that God is in control. But life will go on and regardless of who is president, it will not change my beliefs.

My fear is that many Christians (not saying you in particular) will say that God has turned his back on America if Obama is elected. I choose to continue to believe God's will will be done.

 

[KatheeME]

Do you not believe there is a difference?

I believe it's a sorry excuse of a reason to discriminate against perfectly normal people who just happen to have different personal feelings than you, PERSONAL. Why is it your's church's business anyway? If they are consenting adults that are not hurting others, it's not.

Kathee

 

[BuckNaked]

You are adding bold in there where I did not place it. Could you read it without the bolding you put in there?

I put the bolding in to emphasize the parts that I considered to be dismissive of my beliefs.

If this hurts you because you feel I am being intolerant for the way you pray, let me tell you, I don't care how you pray in your own home.

Don't worry - the intolerance of a stranger on the internet isn't going to hurt me. You're just words on a screen to me, nothing more, nothing less. I just found the hypocrisy of telling others to be tolerant while you exhibit intolerance interesting.

 

[BuckNaked]

*

 

[BuckNaked]

I believe it's a sorry excuse of a reason to discriminate against perfectly normal people who just happen to have different personal feelings than you, PERSONAL. Why is it your's church's business anyway? If they are consenting adults that are not hurting others, it's not.

Kathee

My kids do lots of things that I don't like - doesn't mean I don't love my kids. It's the exact same thing in many churches.

It's not the church's business other than if the person is purporting to speak for the church on such matters. At the same time, the church has the right to hold firm to and teach its beliefs. Those that disagree are free to find another church that more closely matches their beliefs.

 

[creativeamanda]

I put the bolding in to emphasize the parts that I considered to be dismissive of my beliefs.




Don't worry - the intolerance of a stranger on the internet isn't going to hurt me. You're just words on a screen to me, nothing more, nothing less. I just found the hypocrisy of telling others to be tolerant while you exhibit intolerance interesting.

And that, ironically (my bolded part), is why it is impossible to know exactly what someone means on an internet message board. You are unable to use body language, accent, etc. to determine where the bolding should be.

As for your last statement, I still see that you are not getting the whole jist of the hypocrisy in praying that a certain person become leader. If one professes that he or she is a Christian, it is automatically assumed that they believe the Bible. So, it is automatically assumed that they pray in the manner we are told to by Jesus Himself. Now, I, as much as anyone else, know the breakdown of the word assume.

I don't profess to believe it is my personal business how anyone chooses to pray in their own home. But, I do take offense when a minister who professes to be listening to the calling God prays in a manner that is in opposition to my personal beliefs and I have every right to distance myself from said prayer. That is not intolerance. That is me saying, "Hey, I disagree with that." Yet again, I am not knocking however you pray. It, yet again, is not my business. Your conversations with God are your own business.

 

[Alaska DogCat]

You are WAY off....

So...Abraham did not have two sons Isaac and Ishmael? And Isaac did not go on to lead the Jewish people and Ishmael is not a link for the Muslim people to Abraham? And the Muslim people who believe their God (Allah) is the God of Abraham are wrong? And Jesus of Nazareth, who spoke of the God of Isaac and Abraham and to the view of God as one God was not speaking of the same God?

Please tell how? I'm intrigued. So who is the God of the people of Islam? I have invested a significant period of my life in the academic study of these issues and I've never had anyone tell me I was way off before on such a basic point before. You obviously have some knowledge that my years of study failed to provide me. Please share.

 

[BuckNaked]

As for your last statement, I still see that you are not getting the whole jist of the hypocrisy in praying that a certain person become leader.

Again, this is your opinion based on your denominational beliefs. The fact that you consider it hypocrisy doesn't make it so for those that believe differently.

Your conversations with God are your own business.

Gee, thanks.

 

[bicker]

Let us not forget that McCain actively solicited endorsements from a minister who believes that the Holocaust was just "God's way of moving the Jews into Palestine, and out of Europe to fulfill prophecy" McCain was "honored" by the endorsement for 2 1/2 months, and had even appeared on stage with him to accept the endorsement, until John Hagee's banter garnered bad publicity.

Wow... I actually didn't know that. Thanks for sharing that.

Or that McCain himself in 2000 said Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and their ilk were "agents of intolerance" and compared Robertson to " ''union bosses who have subordinated the interests of working families to their own ambitions.'' Oh, John McCain, when did THAT "Maverick" disappear? Why are you pandering to these types of religious leaders, now?

Indeed. See my message, here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=28126030#post28126030

 

[bicker]

But the individual church members, which also are "the church", are conflicted, especially in the US.

And that's really the problem for the church; if its dictates are indefensible (by definition), then it is unreasonable for many thinking people to believe them in the conduct of their life "out in the world".

 

[bicker]

The Catholic Church is also very direct in its opposition to the death penalty and its opposition to the war in Iraq. Does that many Sarah Palin and John McCain are the candidates of death?

Especially with McCain's stated intentions regarding Iran, how can any Catholic vote McCain/Palin?

The current pope in also none too enamored with capitalism. Does that mean a political leader who supports capitalism is afoul of the Catholic Church and can't call themselves a Catholic?

Some would say that the Catholic perspective is distinctly un-American. How can people reconcile these conflicts? Answer; selectively. They buy what they want, and leave the rest behind. Again, another problem for the Catholic Church, because the Church only sells the package deal.

We also have a separation of church and state in our secular nation, so a political leader could take a stance on supporting the law of the land (choice) while holding another spiritual belief.

It would be immoral for the leader of a pluralistic society to do anything but.

 

[bicker]

Our country was founded on Christian principles.

Our country was founded on contrary and progressive religious principles. Of course many Americans did practice Christianity, but so also did many believe in deistic philosophy. Indeed, most of our influential Founding Fathers, although they respected the rights of others, held to deism and Freemasonry tenets rather than to Christianity. Nowhere does the US Constitution appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being, and instead explicitly states that the nation derives its authority from people. "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

This seems to be information that Sarah Palin, perhaps, is unaware of, but it is essential knowledge for anyone asserting themselves as candidate to represent the people of the United States.

 

[bicker]

Get real?

I'm a lesbian. People sit in church every week and listen to their religious leaders say all kinds of nasty things about me and people like me. Millions listened to Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson when they blamed homosexuals and witches for 9/11, and still continued to support them and hateful religious leaders like them.

Am I concerned that Obama sat in Church and heard Reverend Wright talking about black anger, white resentment, and saying God damn America for its racism?

About as concerned as I am with ANY religious politician who controls my country and sits in church every single week and listens to hate spilling from the pulpit.

Stay clear of Wasilla, Alaska, then!

 

[bicker]

I'm not questioning your interpretation or the teachings of your church. I'm simply saying they don't apply to me, so I'm in no way bound to follow them.

Sarah Palin needs to come to understand this concept, before she can be deemed worthy to serve in public office, since she believes that everyone has to be bound to follow the interpretations and teachings of her church, on matters such as reproductive choice.

 

[bicker]

You are WAY off....

Uh, sorry, but Alaska DogCat is correct. You probably want to brush up your knowledge of the world's major religions.