Do Obama supporters really, truly

[freckles and boo]

What amazes me is that you think this is different from how taxes have always worked.

I agree. This is one of those ridiculous, fear-based arguments that has no merit. Taxes are inherently socialist. Buy your own island and declare sovereignty if you don't want to "share". Taxation is a compromise we make when we choose to live in a civilized society with others.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I support Obama's plan.

 

[chrisw127]

You know what is mind boggling to me? YOUR guy believed in the EXACT SAME THING but he changed his mind for the time being. I have posted this repeatedly but nobody acknowledges that this is EXACTLY what John McCain proposed in 2000. Do you really think McCain doesn't believe in this anymore? After years of being a moderate and years of having the same beliefs on taxes, he suddenly woke up in 2006 and said, "I've had it wrong all along." How about he lost in 2000 because he wasn't republican enough for the right and he changed his talking points. The question I have is if he is elected, which McCain will show up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHEkY

Wow. Talk about a flip-flopper.

 

[Master Mason]

That's something I think a lot of modern Republicans have conveniently forgotten. Obama is not proposing a ridiculously high top tax rate; he's proposing a return to the Clinton-era rate, which was lower than it had been in the preceding 3 dacades.

I don't believe that to be true, they were lower under Reagan, and then Bush I raised them, remember him getting tossed out of office for breaking his "read my lips" comment.

 

[HakunaMatata2]

That's a good point. Rich people who live off of their capital gains pay far less than we who break our backs everyday. It's very unfair and it favors the rich...yet nobody complains. Makes you wonder why people get so angry when the system favors the middle class.

Unfortunately, most people with capital gains are not rich! There are many folks using that money to try to meet college costs for their children and many elderly who rely on that money to support themselves with pride so that they do not have to rely on their children for additional support. A few dollars in capital gains does not make one rich!

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

What amazes me is that you think this is different from how taxes have always worked. You make more money you pay more taxes. Bush gave tax cuts to the rich, hasn't worked out so well. Obama would stop those tax cuts and go back to what they were under Clinton.

I know, right? It goes to show you have to be armed with at least a little bit of knowledge before you evaluate the candidates' proposals.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Unfortunately, most people with capital gains are not rich! There are many folks using that money to try to meet college costs for their children and many elderly who rely on that money to support themselves with pride so that they do not have to rely on their children for additional support. A few dollars in capital gains does not make one rich!

Not everyone who has capital gains is rich, but most rich people make a ton of money on capital gains. All that money that those rich people earn is taxed at a far lower rate than the money we earn by breaking our backs every day. Very unfair.

 

[corndog]

That's a good point. Rich people who live off of their capital gains pay far less than we who break our backs everyday. It's very unfair and it favors the rich...yet nobody complains. Makes you wonder why people get so angry when the system favors the middle class.

The "system" shouldn't "favor" anyone.

 

[mirmartinez]

...


Yeah, who would EVER suggest taxing the higher income brackets more aggressively than the lower brackets (I believe the term is generally called 'progressive tax structure', although on these threads the buzzword is 'socialism')..Lemmee see... Oh yeah.... It was that guy in 1909 addressing congress for a significantly larger tax burden for the wealthy; a guy named Ted Roosevelt, a republican...

And giving money to people at/near poverty levels, funded by tax revenues ('earned income credits', remember that one..?).. that came from the administration of that movie guy, Ron Reagan (and was supported recently by that 'W' fellow now in office..)

Yeah... you gotta watch out for those repub/pinko/socialist guys... they're all over the place..

ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME ARE TAXES OUR NOT PROPORTIONAL TO OUR INCOME!!!!!!!!
BUSH and REAGAN ARE SOCIALIST TOO!!!!

They better hurry up and take away Hawaii's statehood, I need to go somewhere to flee all this socialism

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

As a family whose taxes won't go down under Obama, McCain's progressive tax structure scares me more than Obama's.

The McCains stand to personally gain over $350,000 with his tax structure. That says a lot.

 

[Colleen27]

That's a good point. Rich people who live off of their capital gains pay far less than we who break our backs everyday. It's very unfair and it favors the rich...yet nobody complains. Makes you wonder why people get so angry when the system favors the middle class.

I complain! Actually, so does the wealthy, semi-retired relative that first made me realize how unfair this is. His overall tax rate, living solely off of capital gains on an investment he inherited, is lower than the self-employment tax we pay on every dime of our income and that's without even getting into income taxes.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

The "system" shouldn't "favor" anyone.

Yet when it favors the wealthy and powerful, as it usually does, nobody says a word. We either justify it or ignore it. However, once poor, genuinely needy people stand to gain, everybody is up in arms. Makes you wonder about the morality of this supposedly "Christian nation."

 

[AndyLL]

I don't believe that to be true, they were lower under Reagan, and then Bush I raised them, remember him getting tossed out of office for breaking his "read my lips" comment.

Up to 1986 the top rates were 49% and 50%
1987 it was 35% and 38.5%
1988-1992 it was 33% and 28% (thats right... the rich paid a LOWER rate then the middle class
1993-1999 36% and 39.6%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

The rich did just fine in the 80s and 90s with those rates

 

[AndyLL]

Unfortunately, most people with capital gains are not rich! There are many folks using that money to try to meet college costs for their children and many elderly who rely on that money to support themselves with pride so that they do not have to rely on their children for additional support. A few dollars in capital gains does not make one rich!

Which is why Obama excludes those types of capital gains.

 

[HakunaMatata2]

Not everyone who has capital gains is rich, but most rich people make a ton of money on capital gains. All that money that those rich people earn is taxed at a far lower rate than the money we earn by breaking our backs every day. Very unfair.

I'm curious as to what dollar amount you consider someone rich.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I'm curious as to what dollar amount you consider someone rich.

Hmm, not sure...half million a year? Million a year? Something like that.

Or maybe if you have a million or so put away...not including your primary residence.

 

[Sk8Leigh]

I think attitudes like this are a big problem in the world today, not exclusive to the United States -- everyone's so focused on ME ME ME, and many are not willing to help out their fellow man.

I don't see a problem with imposing higher taxes on those who make $$$$$, if the end result is a better way of life for all people.


Okay.. flame suit's on..

BTW, I won't be offended if anyone calls me a socialist, which I imagine is going to happen in 3...2...1...

Socialist.

 

[Cindyluwho]

Well I'm one of the ones that is in that higher income tax bracket and yes I do pay more than a few bucks in taxes. My DH and I work our tails off both at the office and at home, it's something we've chosen to do and we both love it. We have the freedom of being with our family as well as going on nice vacations, but having to work while we're gone. We also have to pay self employment tax. When Bush came along my taxes went down considerably, it seems like my taxes were approx $20K less per year. That being said, I'm voting for Obama. Why? It's not because I don't enjoy that $20K, it's just that we should all pay our fair share. The rich shouldn't pay less than the middle class which is the way it's working now. I truly believe each and every income earner is the US should pay an equal small percentage on their net income - no exceptions. Make it totally fair!

 

[Minnie824]

I wish we could just have a flat tax. Get rid of all these complicated hidden taxes, and everyone will still pay their fair share.

 

[Master Mason]

Up to 1986 the top rates were 49% and 50%
1987 it was 35% and 38.5%
1988-1992 it was 33% and 28% (thats right... the rich paid a LOWER rate then the middle class
1993-1999 36% and 39.6%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

The rich did just fine in the 80s and 90s with those rates

One correction. The rich were not paying a lower rate. As has already been stated in this thread, we have a marginal rate. So the taxes from 1 to x are one rate, from x to y another and so on. The top rate only tells you what the marginal rate is for the top bracket, to know the full story, you must also know what the brackets are. So while according to your numbers, the top marginal rate was lower, that only means that once you spilled over into the top bracket that you were taxed at a lower rate for each additional dollar.

But your numbers did prove what I was saying, the tax rates under Clinton were not the lowest they had been in the last 3 decades they were lower under both Reagan and Bush from your numbers.