Do I have any recourse with Kroger??

[MinnieMe87]

Short of having someone patrolling the parking lot constantly to grab the carts, I don't see how stores can do anything to stop such things. It's extremely windy here much of the time and carts do sometimes escape into the streets. I think that people here just take it in stride.

I agree, and I don't see how it's Kroger's fault.
Op, I hope your daughter gets her car fixed!!

 

[jenrose66]

I don't think you have any recourse. I work in insurance claims...and the information they gave you seems pretty industry standard. They can't decide to not pay a claim because they don't want to. There are general guidelines outlined by the state insurance department that they have to follow. If you are unhappy in the way that this is being handled you should contact the state insurance board to file a complaint. They look into every complaint filed and if this insurance company is not within their rights in denying the claim the board will sanction them.

Sadly, it was your daughter colliding with an object in the road. That is a collision on her part. Sure she didn't want to get rear ended by the car behind her, however, if she would have stopped to avoid the cart and then gotten rear ended, it would have been the car behind her found at fault and their insurance would have to pay, relieving you of liability on your insurance.

 

[figment52]

I wouldn't expect Kroger to have any liability here. If they were always in control of the carts and customers NEVER touched them, maybe. But they cannot control where customers leave them or where wind takes them.

It wa nice of them to complete a report for you so you could submit it against YOUR insurance policy.

These things happen but it is not up to Kroger to repair your vehicle on this one - sorry.

 

[undercovermom]

I am an attorney (not in Texas) and I also hold a Texas Insurance Adjuster's license. I don't have definitive answers for you, but I do have a few suggestions.


you're dealing directly with Kroger's, right? they're self insured, you're not dealing with an insurance company?

the man who was rude to you is probably in their risk management office. you need to follow up with his supervisor and/or with their corporate offices -- regardless of Kroger policy concerning these claims, his behavior was unprofessional and you should not have been treated this way.

you have two options at this juncture. by far the easier option is to file a claim with your own insurance.if your insurer thinks the accident was Kroger's fault, they'll bring a claim against Kroger's to recover their payment and your deductible, which they will probably settle for $50 on the dollar. if they purue the claim, ask them to collect your deductible as well.

your other option is to file an action for your damages in small claims court. do that, and you're suddenly dealing with a person in the legal department instead of Mr. Rude in risk management. you have a better shot of settling the claim with legal, especially if you know what to argue.

now I will spin it for you as a plaintiff's attorney, use what you want form the following to try to make your case:

it' si Kroger's responsibility to maintain its parking lot in a reasonably safe condition, and that includes controlling the shopping carts it provides for customers' use. it's Kroger's obligation to keep its shopping carts from entering the public thoroughfares. although we don't know what actually caused the shopping cart to leave Kroger's premises, but such accidents generally do not happen without some negligence on the part of the owner of the shopping cart.

the manager's statements at the time of the accident are both an admission of liaibilty on the part of Kroger's and a promise to pay damages. a corporation acts through its employees, and the store manager had the authority to make binding promises on the part of Kroger's.

the weather conditions were not the cause of the accident. a severe storm with significant winds might cause a shoppong cart to be propelled out of the parking lot, but on the night in question there was only a light rain and no significant winds.

assuming Kroger's posted a sign near the shopping card corral purporting to absolve itself of liability involving its shoping carts, even if such disclaimer were otherwise effective it would not be binding on your daughter, who was not on Kroger property at the time of the accident and did not implicitly consent to this limitation of liability by voluntarily using the Kroger parking lot or its shopping carts.

good luck in getting this resolved.

 

[undercovermom]

I don't think you have any recourse. I work in insurance claims...and the information they gave you seems pretty industry standard. They can't decide to not pay a claim because they don't want to. There are general guidelines outlined by the state insurance department that they have to follow. If you are unhappy in the way that this is being handled you should contact the state insurance board to file a complaint. They look into every complaint filed and if this insurance company is not within their rights in denying the claim the board will sanction them.

Sadly, it was your daughter colliding with an object in the road. That is a collision on her part. Sure she didn't want to get rear ended by the car behind her, however, if she would have stopped to avoid the cart and then gotten rear ended, it would have been the car behind her found at fault and their insurance would have to pay, relieving you of liability on your insurance.

what kind of claims do you handle? I have to disagree with your assessment.

I have yet to see a commercial general liaiblity policy that precludes third party claims for weather-related damage. first party, of course, but not third party.

more importantly, from what the OP said, it seems Kroger's is self-insured. Kroger's risk manager made a determination of liaiblity -- not coverage -- based on his view of how the accident occurred. I just made a credible res ipsa argumet that would get the OP before a judge in small claims court.

I don't know that it's worth the OP's time to go file a small claims action...but I would vey much expect the OP's insurer to file a subrogation action after they pay the claim.

 

[Seahunt]

Just wondering but isn't it very important for the OP to have a police report/pictures filed on this incident? Maybe you did already, but it sounds like Kroger is the only one with info & pictures reported on the night it happened?

Any advice on whether this is something to do ASAP if not already done from the legal or insurance experts here on the DIS?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

The other weather related issue I see here is liability to their employees. If there was lightning in the area, it's quite possible their employees aren't allowed to collect the carts for safety reasons, which could further compound the issue. I never talked to the cart corralers in the grocery store where I worked, so I don't know, but my guess is they don't have to go out as often in a thunderstorm. This very well could be an OSHA regulated issue regarding the work environment, so the fact taht the cart wasn't collected may not be negligence on their part if there was a storm. I'm not saying this is the case, just throwing it out as a possibility.

 

[golfgal]

Contact your state attorney general's office. You should not be responsible for the neglect caused by Kroger or Kroger's customer. If my dog leaves my yard and bites someone, I would be held accountable. How is Kroger's shopping cart hitting your car any different? Get several estimates and be ready with numbers that will repair your car.

First of all, this grocery store was not negligent in any way, shape or form. They are not responsible for wind pushing their carts around. They provide places to put the carts when you are done and they can't and don't have control over customers that are too lazy to put them away. To be held liable they first have to prove negligence and it just isn't going to happen in this case.

For the example of the sign, if that did happen and they could prove that Kroger's KNEW the sign was in danger of falling-say the supports were rusted and they didn't do anything about it, then they could be held liable. If it was pushed over due to strong winds then no, they aren't liable. It wouldn't be any different then your neighbor's tree falling on your house during a storm, they aren't liable for the damage to your house. If they set your house on fire shooting off fireworks, yes, they are liable.

This would also be a comprehensive claim, not a collision claim, thus it can't raise your rates. File a claim with your insurance company depending on what your deductible and coverage is. If you don't have comp coverage on the car you are pretty much out of luck.

 

[Chicago526]

Honestly I'd just call your insurance company. One of two things will happen. 1) They'll be abe to go after Kroger and Kroger will pay, 2) They won't be able to go after Kroger and your insurance company will have to pay.

Either way, you don't pay. This is what insurance is for!

 

[luvmy3]

The other weather related issue I see here is liability to their employees. If there was lightning in the area, it's quite possible their employees aren't allowed to collect the carts for safety reasons, which could further compound the issue. I never talked to the cart corralers in the grocery store where I worked, so I don't know, but my guess is they don't have to go out as often in a thunderstorm. This very well could be an OSHA regulated issue regarding the work environment, so the fact taht the cart wasn't collected may not be negligence on their part if there was a storm. I'm not saying this is the case, just throwing it out as a possibility.

This is exactly what I was thinking. If there was a storm in that area, the cart collector may not have been allowed to go outside to retrieve the carts. That may be one reason why they post those signs on the cart corral, because during a storm carts cannot be collected and there is a greater risk of them blowing around the parking lot.
OP I'm sorry that happened but I don't think that Kroger is responsible. Your dd admitted that she saw it coming out of the corner of her eye. It did not just appear in front of her. She did not want to slam on the brakes but she could have done something else to try to avoid it, like slow down, or change lanes. I think thats what Kroger's ins. company would argue.

 

[Nancy]

The store I used to work for paid for cart damage to cars all the time, regardless of how it occured (unless the customer ran into the cart cause they weren't looking) of course we also don't have signs up saying we are not responsible.

We had plenty of workers out in that lot to make sure loose carts weren't flying around, so if one did hit a car, the managers would go out with the camera, take the picutures and all was taken care of.

Heck we even paid for damages caused by a jar of spaghetti sauce that rolled out of a customers bag in her truck and broke somehow...we paid to have her trunk cleaned.

 

[Nancy]

The other weather related issue I see here is liability to their employees. If there was lightning in the area, it's quite possible their employees aren't allowed to collect the carts for safety reasons, which could further compound the issue. I never talked to the cart corralers in the grocery store where I worked, so I don't know, but my guess is they don't have to go out as often in a thunderstorm. This very well could be an OSHA regulated issue regarding the work environment, so the fact taht the cart wasn't collected may not be negligence on their part if there was a storm. I'm not saying this is the case, just throwing it out as a possibility.

You are correct, if there is cloud to ground lightening they can not go out and collect carts. If it is just a normal storm then it is ok..but that cloud to ground stuff is dangerous.

We tried to get customers to do a driveup during the nasty windy days to help keep the flying carts down to a minimum. I was amazed at how fast those carts can get moving with just a little wind behind them. You would think since it is all open weaved that the wind would just pass though them but nope..they get a pretty good head of steam on them.

 

[honeymom]

I would get your insurance company involved. There are times where having them on your side is a good thing.

Also, I don't care how many signs are in a parking lot, or what they claim, it is their cart and therefore their responsibility. I would believe that once their cart left the parking lot, they became liable for it. Your daughter never accepted any contract with them to deny liability because she never willingly parked in their lot. And, even if it isn't their fault, who is to say that it isn't their landlord's fault (perhaps a flaw in the design of their driveway if a cart could roll down it). I find a question in act of god - to some extent wind can be blamed, but was their human error involved. I.E. how could a cart blow that far across a lot without having been collected?

I am a lawyer's daughter, have worked for and with lawyers and contracts over the years. I'm not always right, but I usually have a pretty good gut for these things. I have seen that many times big corporations try to scare the little guy, but when actually called up on it by another large force (i.e. the insurance company lawyers) they at the very least settle.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

On another note, your collision deductible may be higher than your comprehensive. My van was hit in the parking lot once and my then-insurance company said it was a collision--a cart collided with my van, even though I was in the store--hence a $500 deductible rather than $100. It was $650 damage so I let it go. If you have a small amount of damage and Kroger won't pay, you may not want to involve insurance at all--or they may jack up the rates for an already expensive teen driver. (I know when DD#1 gets her license it will cost us another $100 a month).
Robin M.

 

[lovetoscrap]

I don't know if you can convince them to pay, but I am wondering where the cart came from to get into the street? There is a lot that a store can do to keep the carts on their property and out of the street. Landscaping with curbs, bushes, thick ground cover etc... all around the perimiter of the lot will stop carts no matter what the weather (except maybe a tornado or hurricane!). So then the only way one could escape would be through the entry/exit area. Does this store have adequate landscaping to prevent carts from getting off their property? Or was this a totally freak thing where it went through the entry/exit ?

Some stores even put up a railing all around their property to keep the carts in. If this cart from anywher but the same "driveway" for the cars I would be raising hell!

Keep us informed! I am interested to see how this turns out.

 

[Andy B]

I am surprised at some of the answers here. I am from England which generally relies less on the courts but I do work in commercial insurance and would comment as follows.

Although the store is not responsible for the weather thay de have a responsibility for the carts they supply and they must have an area where they can be returned to and should keep a regular patrol to ensure that their property is not causing harm.

A notice saying they accept no responsibility may have no legal status as such signs cannot negate legal liability.

'Acts of God' such as weather related incidents are commonly insured and it is a misconception to believe that this is any defence.

The store would probably show that the weather was exceptional and unexpected and maybe that it was unsafe for their employees to tidy the carts to aviod any liability. Was there a weather advisory published before?

I am unsure of US motor insurance but I am guessing that the store has not reported this to their insurers and are trying to bat the claim away which is hard to do anything about without legal help, either a personal lawer or through your car insurance. Over here car insurance often includes legal costs to recover costs and if full recovery it would not affect the price next year.

 

[lg3]

I don't see how Kroger can be held responsible in any way for the cart situation.

The acting manager made a mistake in promising something that the store can't/won't fulfill. That may be a different matter altogether, but frankly not one I would spend any more time, effort or money to pursue. Sounds unfortunately like a complete dead end. I'm glad your daughter is okay.

 

[veraletta]

I would have your insurance agent handle this, if your insurance knows they have to pay and they think that Krogers should pay they will take care of this for you. I think Krogers is responsible as it wasn't on their lot but on the street.
Thank god your daughter didnt get hurt.

 

[kimluvswdw]

A shopping cart hit my sisters brand new Nissan Armada and damaged it. Long story short, she had to pay for the damage to her car or claim it under her insurance. She chose to pay out of pocket to keep the insurance rate from rising.

 

[luvsJack]

I really don't think I would decide they are not liable based on a printed sign in the parking lot. A lot of the time signs like that or waivers businesses get people to sign are just deterrents to keep people from suing but don't really mean too much. If the buggy is the property of Kroger then it would seem they would be responsible for damage their property caused. In the same way, if the wind blows down my fence and my horse gets out and is hit by a car; I am responsible for any damage to that vehicle.