Do any other DVC members feel left out when

[Paulieuk1969]

Yes, but you have to look at that from Disney's perspective:
1) One bedrooms are available, as they are always the last rooms to fill, and

2) They are the most impressive to non-members. DVC members already own, and know what is available....people who stay value do not. If you are going to spend money to try to "wow" someone....you might as well give them the bigger rooms, since you are not getting any more from those who have already signed on the dotted line.

I am not saying I agree with this....I just understand it.

Both good points, but why not upgrade those at the moderates to SSR, I would think they are more likely to buy DVC as opposed to those who are on a tight budget staying at value resorts with free food.

 

[TDC Nala]

If we want to book packages for free dining, we're free to do that, also. For AP holders, a one-day park pass is not a waste, as the value of the pass can be used toward the renewal of the AP (on top of the DVC discount on the AP).

I renewed my AP this year using a one-day park pass, DVC discount, and Disney Visa rewards. I paid $22 out of pocket.

 

[CarolMN]

Both good points, but why not upgrade those at the moderates to SSR, I would think they are more likely to buy DVC as opposed to those who are on a tight budget staying at value resorts with free food.

Because the demand for the value resorts during the free dining period was a lot more than that for the moderates.

The demand for the value resorts during free dining far exceeded the availability. So Disney chose to move some value guests to unsold/available 1 bedroom units (that were already in CRO inventory, not DVC inventory) so that they could sell more value packages. So rather than get nothing for the SSR & OKW units, they got something for them since they were able to resell the value rooms vacated by the upgrades.

I really don't think a major motivator for the upgrades was to sell more DVC - it was to bring in more $$ for Disney resorts.

 

[Beca]

Both good points, but why not upgrade those at the moderates to SSR, I would think they are more likely to buy DVC as opposed to those who are on a tight budget staying at value resorts with free food.

I agree with what CarolMN posted above. However, I also think that WDW realizes that many people choose to stay at values because they are "commando" type people who simply do not see a value in spending more money for a room that they will never use except for sleeping. I know many people who are relatively well-off, and do not stay anything but values because it doesn't make sense to them to do anything else. Also remember, WDW does make a BIG deal out of marketing the "family vacation for 4 for $1600". A lot of these people stay at values because that is what is advertised, and they just do not know anything different.

My mom is one of those people. She thought we were NUTS for buying into DVC. She just couldn't imagine paying so much for a "hotel room", when you can get All-Stars or Pop for much less. So...we invited her to stay with us one trip and she LOVED it. She bought DVC (only 50 points), and thought she would use regular hotel rooms to supplement their stays (arrival night). She stayed ONE trip at Pop, and decided she could NEVER do that again. She said she just did not feel she had arrived at WDW, until she had arrived at her DVC resort. She is now a hooked "snob" just like the rest of us.

WDW does the same "upgrading" of rooms in March/April during the National Cheerleading competitions. For the past couple of years, WDW has been offering non-cheer related guests booked at All-Stars a chance to move to a 1 bedroom at their choice of SSR or OKW. Initially, I think they needed the room (these competitions have become so huge, and now World's is the big thing), and they thought it could create a win-win situation because it would cut down on guest complaints due to the cheer practicing and prank-pulling going on in the lawn.

I expect this trend will probably continue. As DVC membership grows, there will be a larger percentage of rooms unused at any given point. Those rooms are made available to CRO at 60 days out. Because of the nature of resorts, those rooms will almost always be at SSR & OKW. If they are not being used by DVC member, CRO can rent them out anyway they can. The "breakage" income is then deducted from the monthly dues of DVC members. I would think this could be a good way to keep SSR & OKW dues down a bit.

I'm sorry if this bothers you. Honestly, I don't know how I would feel if WDW did this at my home resort. Since I choose to not stay at OKW or SSR, I cannot see/know how having all these people might make your resort stay different. BCV is ALWAYS busy, so I have never experienced that resort at less than capacity.

Anyway, I am not saying that you shouldn't care, or be upset (only you can decide that), I am just trying to explain how I see the choices they make.

 

[JimMIA]

I feel especially annoyed with the mandatory DDP for all guests for the length of stay. In years past, we have family visit from time to time for a day or two at weekends. We have family that stay in the room and enjoy the pool-it all depends on their schedule. I have explained to MS that one family member is on a medical diet and we eat in the room when she visits....no leniency and that results in our hiding the relatives or their not coming at all.

No we don't feel left out.

As far as DDP is concerned -- it is what it is. The issues you are complaining about are fundamental requirements of DDP for everyone who uses it. If those basic requirements do not meet your needs, you need to select another discount plan.

DDP -- or any other Disney discount program -- is not designed to meet all of the conceivable needs of every special case that any of Disney's millions of visitors might have. The issues you raise with DDP are not a fault in the program -- the problem is you are trying to make DDP something it is not, and never has been. DDP is a basic discount plan that meets the needs of many. It does not pretend to be perfect for every imaginable situation, and there are lots of other options.

Also, DDP is a perk which has only recently been made available to DVC owners staying on points. It is not a part of your DVC ownership -- it's just a fringe benefit. If it doesn't meet your needs, don't buy it.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I have to agree at least a little bit with the OP.

DH and I own 100 points at BWV, which we LOVE, so pay about $500/yr. in maintenance fees.

When I saw a code for POP for $59/night, I was a little miffed.

We could stay 7 or 8 days at POP just for our maintenance fees, and we will have to pay those maintenance fees every year if we go or not for 35 years.

With $95 transfer fees and the like, I don't feel like I am Disney's favorite customer.

It may just be me.

 

[ADP]

I don't feel left out either.

Between the great AP discount, DDE membership, DVC parties (Merry Mixer, Welcome Home Wednesday's, etc) I feel the DVC program is working great for us.

Our DVC membership is allowing us to travel to Disney more often than we would be able to if we were not members.

 

[kikiq]

I have to agree at least a little bit with the OP.

DH and I own 100 points at BWV, which we LOVE, so pay about $500/yr. in maintenance fees.

When I saw a code for POP for $59/night, I was a little miffed.

We could stay 7 or 8 days at POP just for our maintenance fees, and we will have to pay those maintenance fees every year if we go or not for 35 years.

With $95 transfer fees and the like, I don't feel like I am Disney's favorite customer.

It may just be me.

BUT if you wanted to stay in the value resorts every trip, you wouldn't 'have bought DVC to begin with, would you. We spent our last night at ASM to see if our Grand Gathering of 10 could handle being in 2 family suites or one suite and 2 rooms. After one night, my dh said that he didn't think that just our family of four could handle being in a room, maybe a family suite for a week. We realize that we would need 2 suites and a room for the family to be comfortable...THEN to be honest, I could not handle the constant noise. We realized that all our years at the Poly have spoiled us.

As a new owner, I haven't felt like I've been slighted. We understood what we bought and how we will use our points. And we're looking forward to our first trip home next summer.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I have to agree at least a little bit with the OP.

DH and I own 100 points at BWV, which we LOVE, so pay about $500/yr. in maintenance fees.

When I saw a code for POP for $59/night, I was a little miffed.

We could stay 7 or 8 days at POP just for our maintenance fees, and we will have to pay those maintenance fees every year if we go or not for 35 years.

With $95 transfer fees and the like, I don't feel like I am Disney's favorite customer.

It may just be me.

True, you pay the maintenance fees whether or not you go, but if you don't go, you can bank those points and use them the following year, or even rent them out and get your maintenance fees back. I don't see your beef here.

 

[DebbieB]

I would estimate that the average DVC owner might visit once a year. In addition, DVC owners paid for the construction and also pay for the upkeep and maintenance. We also pay for our own transportation. Disney gets to keep a certain % of the rooms for FREE (because we paid for the construction of the resort) to rent out for cash.

I wouldn't say that the rooms DVC keeps are "free" for them. They own the points, just like any member. I assume that they have to pay dues on them also.

 

[jimmytammy]

I dont feel left out. I can appreciate where you are coming from, especially since you got in when the tickets were still free. We have DVC friends here in town who got those same free tickets, and they often comment on how DVC doesnt give like they used too. But we bought in and didnt know all that took place, and I am just happy to get a discount on APs. I felt even better about belonging to DVC at that point

Lets put the shoe on the other foot...there are many DISers who dont own DVC and feel "left" out. You know all the threads about us being DVC "snobs" and the such. For me personally, I feel blessed that I can own a small part of such a huge and happy place and experience.

Dont get me wrong, at times I evaluate DVC on a personal level, and try to see the good and the bad. But the good outweighs the bad by a longshot. When I see the negative, it doesnt last long, then I start dreaming about that next trip "home"

 

[rayelias]

I wouldn't say that the rooms DVC keeps are "free" for them. They own the points, just like any member. I assume that they have to pay dues on them also.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if, not only did they not cost Disney anything, but they also made money on them.

At one time, I actually did the math (but I don't remember the exact amount), so forgive me if the numbers aren't perfect...


Let's take SSR - the newest "dedicated" DVC:

JUST a single studio is about 5900 points in a year - fully booked

At $85/point, DVC made about $500,000 selling a single studio (355 sq ft = $1,400/sq ft). There is no "land" cost - we're leasing that from WDW. So, something that probably cost them $80-100k (at best) to build, they made about $400k on. PER studio!!!

So, all the points that DVC kept, were not only 'free' to them, they made a ton of money on top of that. Yes, they pay maintenance fees on the points they own, but, WE paid to build beautiful accomodations for DVC to own.

Why do you think they haven't built any new hotels? If they built the hotels, they'd have to pay to build them, pay to maintain them, pay to market them, etc. Why should Disney pay to build a hotel when they can get us to do it for them, make a profit on the sale, AND keep a decent % of the rooms for themselves to rent out. AND we pay for most of the maintenance and transportation. AND, through ROFR, they've got an additional profit stream. Buy for $75, resell for $90. AND, need some extra cash? Well, they can just "sell" an additional 15 years to existing owners for some pure profit.

WE are a HUGE money making machine for Disney. MASSIVE.

 

[Granny]

I dont feel left out. I can appreciate where you are coming from, especially since you got in when the tickets were still free. We have DVC friends here in town who got those same free tickets, and they often comment on how DVC doesnt give like they used too. But we bought in and didnt know all that took place, and I am just happy to get a discount on APs. I felt even better about belonging to DVC at that point

Lets put the shoe on the other foot...there are many DISers who dont own DVC and feel "left" out. You know all the threads about us being DVC "snobs" and the such. For me personally, I feel blessed that I can own a small part of such a huge and happy place and experience.

Dont get me wrong, at times I evaluate DVC on a personal level, and try to see the good and the bad. But the good outweighs the bad by a longshot. When I see the negative, it doesnt last long, then I start dreaming about that next trip "home"

JT....really well said.

 

[dismorgh]

While we are new DVC owners (bought in July), we don't feel left out of anything. Like some posters have said, if you want free dining, then just pay the rack rate for a room, and use your points for a different vacation.

Also, with our families situation, we decided to buy the Premium Annual Passes, since we will be making multiple trips over a 12 month period (we will be there for 28 days total!), utilizing the water parks, Disney Quest, and all, we will get LOTS of usage out of all of it, and we saved $500!

We evaluated DVC membership based only on saving room costs. We know that we will be saving money in the long run, and that's all that counts!

 

[Mtnman44]

Wow. Listen to some of you. You are among the relatively few people that are fortunate enough to 1) travel to WDW often (for many families this is a once in a lifetime trip or even a never in a lifetime trip) and 2) you get to stay in fantastic, huge, deluxe DVC accomodations.

You'd think you'd be happy with that. But No, some feel the need to look back down at the folks staying at VALUES and be jealous and upset that they (how dare Disney!) give those peasants some good deals (preceived or otherwise). I mean how DARE they! It's not enough to have premium vacation lodging for yourself....no, in order to enjoy your ownership, everyone else staying in much lesser accomodations must also be screwed on the price for you to be happy....sheesh.

Buying DVC is simply prepaing for many years of vacation lodging and thus reaping a significant discount over time. There is no entitlement to VIP status that goes along with that. DVC marketing is partly to blame for this expectation I know, but we need to keep it realistic with our expectations. Disney needs to stay focused on serving the other 99% of its customers that are not DVC owners (leasors).

Life is too short to worry about this kind of thing. Seriously.

 

[Copperline]

Wow. Listen to some of you. You are among the relatively few people that are fortunate enough to 1) travel to WDW often (for many families this is a once in a lifetime trip or even a never in a lifetime trip) and 2) you get to stay in fantastic, huge, deluxe DVC accomodations.

You'd think you'd be happy with that. But No, some feel the need to look back down at the folks staying at VALUES and be jealous and upset that they (how dare Disney!) give those peasants some good deals (preceived or otherwise). I mean how DARE they! It's not enough to have premium vacation lodging for yourself....no, in order to enjoy your ownership, everyone else staying in much lesser accomodations must also be screwed on the price for you to be happy....sheesh.

Buying DVC is simply prepaing for many years of vacation lodging and thus reaping a significant discount over time. There is no entitlement to VIP status that goes along with that. DVC marketing is partly to blame for this expectation I know, but we need to keep it realistic with our expectations. Disney needs to stay focused on serving the other 99% of its customers that are not DVC owners (leasors).

Life is too short to worry about this kind of thing. Seriously.

Dang....you've been chuggin' the Disney Kool-Aid a weeee bit too much.
It's a business deal, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with wanting other people to be miserable.
My opinion, I think Disney offering the lowest-cost rooms at even lower costs and luring folks in with free food that would otherwise not be able to afford it, is just another predatory marketing tactic to get them down there and then part them from their cash in other ways. "Ooooh, come stay cheap, we feed you for free, look at how much you've saved! Now buy tickets and over-priced crap from our gift shops strategically placed at the exit of every ride! Mwuahahahahaha."

Thanks rayelias for the interesting and objective calculations. They're very thought-provoking. I'm still on the chip about this OKW $15pp/15yr ext gar-bage, so this is just more fuel for my fire.

 

[brack]

My 2 cents (and it is probably not worth that much) ... I do not feel left out.

 

[DebbieB]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if, not only did they not cost Disney anything, but they also made money on them.

At one time, I actually did the math (but I don't remember the exact amount), so forgive me if the numbers aren't perfect...


Let's take SSR - the newest "dedicated" DVC:

JUST a single studio is about 5900 points in a year - fully booked

At $85/point, DVC made about $500,000 selling a single studio (355 sq ft = $1,400/sq ft). There is no "land" cost - we're leasing that from WDW. So, something that probably cost them $80-100k (at best) to build, they made about $400k on. PER studio!!!

So, all the points that DVC kept, were not only 'free' to them, they made a ton of money on top of that. Yes, they pay maintenance fees on the points they own, but, WE paid to build beautiful accomodations for DVC to own.

Why do you think they haven't built any new hotels? If they built the hotels, they'd have to pay to build them, pay to maintain them, pay to market them, etc. Why should Disney pay to build a hotel when they can get us to do it for them, make a profit on the sale, AND keep a decent % of the rooms for themselves to rent out. AND we pay for most of the maintenance and transportation. AND, through ROFR, they've got an additional profit stream. Buy for $75, resell for $90. AND, need some extra cash? Well, they can just "sell" an additional 15 years to existing owners for some pure profit.

WE are a HUGE money making machine for Disney. MASSIVE.

All of Disney is a huge money making machine, that's why they are in business. DVD's percentage held back is disclosed in the contract. All they owe you is what is in the contract that you willingly signed. I don't get the attitude that because they make money on DVC they owe us more than that. There is no provision for profit sharing in the contract.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Lots of chatter in both directions... I still have what I bought, and for now I am perfectly happy with DVC. I don't normally know about any deals for others, but then I am sure they are not getting a better deal on the bottom line than I am.

It is marketing... and utilizing resources to the fullest. I am a Disney stock holder so I appreciate the effort to get the most out all resources.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Wow. Listen to some of you. You are among the relatively few people that are fortunate enough to 1) travel to WDW often (for many families this is a once in a lifetime trip or even a never in a lifetime trip) and 2) you get to stay in fantastic, huge, deluxe DVC accomodations.

You'd think you'd be happy with that. But No, some feel the need to look back down at the folks staying at VALUES and be jealous and upset that they (how dare Disney!) give those peasants some good deals (preceived or otherwise). I mean how DARE they! It's not enough to have premium vacation lodging for yourself....no, in order to enjoy your ownership, everyone else staying in much lesser accomodations must also be screwed on the price for you to be happy....sheesh.

Buying DVC is simply prepaing for many years of vacation lodging and thus reaping a significant discount over time. There is no entitlement to VIP status that goes along with that. DVC marketing is partly to blame for this expectation I know, but we need to keep it realistic with our expectations. Disney needs to stay focused on serving the other 99% of its customers that are not DVC owners (leasors).

Life is too short to worry about this kind of thing. Seriously.

You are right on! As I have previously mentioned in other threads, I feel extremely fortunate to have the opportunity to purchase DVC. Everyone's opportunites present at different stages of peoples lives, and just plain having the opportunity to purchase...well I am exstatic. We all have been there at one time or another, value resorts, package plans, etc. Lets not put ourselves on some kind of pedestal.