Dissapointment for Hawaii bound DVC

[Mouseaholic!!!]

A note from my DH found in the LA times.

I suspect the poor castmember to recommended buying property (also in a poor part of the island) in Hawaii --- has now had his office moved from the basement to the area next to the trash compactor.

I agree, not good for DVC in Hawaii.

Hawaii's tourism industry is offering new deals, incentives and packages as it grapples with turbulent airline industry and Americans holding tight to their wallets. Officials on Wednesday unveiled a $4.5 million campaign to lure visitors for the remainder of the year. The effort is part of the more than $12.5 million in emergency funding that has been devoted by the state and businesses to combat a slump in tourism. Besides the turmoil in the economy, Hawaii this year faced the sudden shutdown of Aloha and ATA airlines, two major carriers serving the islands from the West Coast. The state also lost two cruise ships.Visitor arrivals plunged 17.3 percent in August compared with the same month last year, including a record 24.4 percent drop in visitors from the West Coast, according to the latest state figures. Visitor spending also fell 17.6 percent. Tourism is the No. 1 industry in Hawaii and the economic lifeblood of the islands.-LA Times

not good for dvc

 

[Snowgod]

Actually it may turn out to be a good theing. Disney will be able to reduce the costs of development due to the economic conditions. Tax breaks for new development and other major costs (labor and construction) could be significantly better.

 

[DisFlan]

I'll preface this by saying that, as A DVC owner, I've never thought the DVC in Hawaii was a wonderful idea, but lots of other owners seem enthusiastic about it. I have no plans to buy or visit there. BUT - the DVC in Hawaii isn't slated to open until something like 2010 or 2011. That's an eon from now in the travel industry. We may be well past the economic/travel downturn by that time. DVC is thinking long term in Hawaii; they're not basing it on current conditions. After it's finished and all goes as planned, it'll be up and running for 50 years.

And....if we're headed into a protracted or severe recession/depression, Disney will have bigger problems than a bad call in Hawaii.

DisFlan

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

You are right DISFLAN.

They couldn't have paid top rate for the land because it's not in the nice part of the island....and all they have is land (no construction) <-- thank goodness, I would hate it to look like the un-completed side of Pop.

Yes, if this is a protracted financial downturn....they will be very happy all they own is the land.

 

[Condorman]

It was the location of the proposed DVC that never appealed to me. It's the equivalent of building a DVC for New York City and putting it somewhere on Long Island or Newark. It's not in Honolulu, which is where most people will want to be. If people wanted to be in total isolation, they would be better served on the Big Island, Maui or better yet Kauai. I suppose they'll have shuttles go back and forth, but unless they landscape the coastline into a useable beachfront it doesn't appeal to me. And to do any of these things would require $$$ which I'm sure is not in the corporate coffers right now thanks to the economy.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

It's not in Honolulu, which is where most people will want to be. If people wanted to be in total isolation, they would be better served on the Big Island, Maui or better yet Kauai.

In a way, that's like saying there should be no beach resorts in Florida anywhere except Miami Beach, "which is where most people will want to be."

The Ko Olina Resort feels isolated (in a good way) while you're there, but if you hop in your rental car, the entire island of Oahu is available to you.

I suppose they'll have shuttles go back and forth, but unless they landscape the coastline into a useable beachfront it doesn't appeal to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a useable beachfront." Ko Olina has a great beachfront, with a bunch of protected coves. The freeway from Ko Olina to Honolulu does not go along the beach.

And to do any of these things would require $$$ which I'm sure is not in the corporate coffers right now thanks to the economy.

Disney hasn't revealed a pricetag for their resort project, but my guess is they're spending well over a billion dollars. The site alone was $144 million.

Over on the DISboards DVC-Mousecellaneous Board, I posted that Yesterland has an article today called "What to Expect from Disney at Ko Olina" at http://www.yesterland.com/disneykoolina1.html

The article starts with the artwork and press release that DVC issued a year ago, but then goes on with speculation about the resort, observations about Hawaiian resorts in general, and information (including photos) about Disney's location.

 

[Condorman]

Horace, you wouldn't happen to know somebody by the name of DVC Landbaron, would you?

Itemized responses...
Chicago-based...
Protective of all things Disney...

Hmmm?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Horace, you wouldn't happen to know somebody by the name of DVC Landbaron, would you?

Itemized responses...
Chicago-based...
Protective of all things Disney...

"Protective of all things Disney"???!!!! I don't think so!! Were you not listening the last time we talked??!! I am "Protective of Walt's Philosophy", not Disney!!!

Horace has been on this board almost from the start. And we are not the same person!! He doesn't use enough exclamation points!! Or BIG BOLD lettering!! The only thing we have in common is:

We just happen to be right almost all the time!!!!!!

 

[Condorman]

Sing along with me, folks:

'Cause he's got... Personality one!
Personality two!
Personality three!
Personality four!

DVC, you should have waited a few days to respond. That you came back so quickly, well... thanks for proving my point. As for the last time we spoke, I'll leave you with this one little insight into your family tree:

You despise Eisner and everything he stood for, but if it weren't for him there never would have been a DVC, hence no "DVC Landbaron." So you can thank Eisner for making you who you are. He named you, he's like your father, and the apple doesn't fall far from the Horsecollar. Itemize that.

Cheers.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Horace, you wouldn't happen to know somebody by the name of DVC Landbaron, would you?

Itemized responses...
Chicago-based...
Protective of all things Disney...

Hmmm?

Hello Condorman,

I'm sorry to disappoint you. I am not DVC-Landbaron.

I'm still curious what "a useable beachfront" means.

And now I'm curious what "protective of all things Disney" means.

By the way, I wasn't attacking your opinion that the location of the announced Disney resort at Ko Olina never appealed to you. But I did hope to discuss some of your supporting points.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I usually don’t even look at these threads. I’m not interested in “virtual”, pixie dust laden, smoke and mirrors, “what if” and “won’t it be great when they finally do____”, type threads. NOT FOR ME!! I’ve been disappointed since 1974 with the Disney rumor mill. But I was bored tonight. I just finished an on-line poker sit & go (first place!!) and I checked into my site (see signature) and the DIS. VERY INACTIVE TODAY!! So I dipped into this thread because it was DVC and someone was disappointed (could it be management’s fault? If so… A 10 pager at least!!!!)

Well, it was worth a look. And what do I see in plain black and white across my computer screen? (well blue and white really!) MY NAME!! And who do you think mentioned it? None other than my new friend Mr. Condor!! So I answered.

DVC, you should have waited a few days to respond.

I couldn’t. I have to leave tomorrow. Guess where I’m off to? YEP!! Food & Wine!! Five days at Old Key West.

That you came back so quickly, well... thanks for proving my point.

I am NOT Mr. Collar. Honest! (Hmmmmmm. A secret identity... I can Picture it!! Simple Mr. Horsecollar turns into SUPER DVC!!! WOW!! The image of me in a cape and tights with a blazing DVC on my chest is simply spectacular!!)

As for the last time we spoke,…

AH! I knew you couldn’t leave it alone!!!!

You despise Eisner and everything he stood for, but if it weren't for him there never would have been a DVC

And that would suit me just fine!!

Surprised?

Let me explain…

Waaaaaaaaaay back in 1991 I was a rose-colored, snow-globing, pixie dust breathing DISNEY brand monkey!! YES!! I was!!! (As I write this I feel like I am at a 12 step meeting. You know. “My name is LandBaron and I am a Disneyholic!”)

Anyway, my wife and I bought one of the first DVCs offered. AND WE LOVED IT!! Then… Well the early ‘90’s hit and I became somewhat annoyed with my favorite place. And then I signed up on the DIS. And I ran into some like-minded folks who were rather disillusioned with the current regime. Some of them were VERY knowledgeable. I listened and learned (something I would suggest EVERYONE do)! And my eyes were opened even further.

So! My current stance on DVC? It is EVIL!!! But!! I already own it and the wife still loves it and I have to admit that OKW still has a little of the old Disney charm left in it. If nothing else I am pragmatic!!

Itemize that.

I just did! It was fun!! Thanks!!

Until next Thursday:

BYE!!!!

 

[deej696]

Gosh now I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go to Disney this weekend. It seems I missed Condorman/Landbaron round 2, and that may have been more entertaining

As far as the topic at hand, I personally am glad the resort is not proposed being built in Honolulu. When I think Hawaii, I think solitude and tranquility, not Orlando with a beach.

 

[karrit2000]

It was the location of the proposed DVC that never appealed to me. It's the equivalent of building a DVC for New York City and putting it somewhere on Long Island or Newark.

As a native Long Islander I take exception to your remarks. At least we have beaches and fresh air on Long Island. It it doesn't smell bad like it does in NYC. Although I think the cab drivers do their training in the City since they drive the same way.

 

[rantnnravin]

karrit2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by Condorman
It was the location of the proposed DVC that never appealed to me. It's the equivalent of building a DVC for New York City and putting it somewhere on Long Island or Newark.

As a native Long Islander I take exception to your remarks. At least we have beaches and fresh air on Long Island. It it doesn't smell bad like it does in NYC. Although I think the cab drivers do their training in the City since they drive the same way.

You know, I live on Long Island and I did not read into Condor's post that way. In fact, just a few weeks ago, I was looking for a hotel in NYC and kept getting offered places in the Bronx, Newark, and Nassau County- I was even offered one in Smithtown!- and it was rather annoying, regardless of how many lovely beaches Fire Island has (Long Island has the Great South Bay abutting its shores - doesn't make for many great beaches)

Itemized responses...

oooh looky what I can do! I must be Baron
or Horace

 

[kaohu24]

Ko Olina is not a poor part of the island. The houses in that area run well into the millions. They aren't releasing much information to anyone about the upcoming resort/DVC.

What Horace said is right, Ko Olina is very isolated, but in a good way. If you want to get away from everything and be immersed in tropical paradise, Ko Olina is the place to be. Even us hawaii people think so. Also, Ko Olina has man-made beaches, so everything is perfectly landscaped.

If you're looking for places to shop, then all you have to do is hop a shuttle or car and go all the way past the gated entrance and onto the freeway. About 30-45 minutes (depending on traffic), will get you straight to Honolulu or Waikiki where all the major shops are.

When the resort is planning on opening is about the time the new shopping center in Kapolei is scheduled to start opening. This shopping center is planned to be bigger than Ala Moana. Kapolei is being developed as our next big city. We already have a Costco, WalMart, and Target opening within the next two years. I'm guessing this is why Disney chose Ko Olina for the new resort?

It's actually pretty well-planned if you ask me, but this was all planned before our economy started to fall. We heard rumors of a Disney resort over here from about three years ago.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Ko Olina is not a poor part of the island. The houses in that area run well into the millions. They aren't releasing much information to anyone about the upcoming resort/DVC.

What Horace said is right, Ko Olina is very isolated, but in a good way. If you want to get away from everything and be immersed in tropical paradise, Ko Olina is the place to be. Even us hawaii people think so. Also, Ko Olina has man-made beaches, so everything is perfectly landscaped.

If you're looking for places to shop, then all you have to do is hop a shuttle or car and go all the way past the gated entrance and onto the freeway. About 30-45 minutes (depending on traffic), will get you straight to Honolulu or Waikiki where all the major shops are.

When the resort is planning on opening is about the time the new shopping center in Kapolei is scheduled to start opening. This shopping center is planned to be bigger than Ala Moana. Kapolei is being developed as our next big city. We already have a Costco, WalMart, and Target opening within the next two years. I'm guessing this is why Disney chose Ko Olina for the new resort?

It's actually pretty well-planned if you ask me, but this was all planned before our economy started to fall. We heard rumors of a Disney resort over here from about three years ago.

I will preface my comments by saying no, I have never been to that exact spot in Hawaii. One of the reasons, you ask...is the same that was shared with me last summer. I was traveling on Atlanta's MARTA with a smallish group from Hawaii (about 10 ladies).

We were discussing Hawaii and I mentioned Disney's land purchase....and they all began to laugh out loud. It's not that there is too little beach....too much beach, the land's not perfect.......it's because people do not feel SAFE in that part of the island.

I am only telling you what people who live there say. Flame me if you want....but it never sounded like Disney made a wise choice with this one.....and their timing is unfortunate.....take a peek at your 401K's!!

 

[kaohu24]

I see what you mean....that side of the island has a reputation for not being safe. However, it's mostly from Nanakuli to Makaha.

I actually laughed out loud too when they proposed the new Disney resort. The last thing we need is another resort that's so heavily themed. I mean it will probably be a very over the top Hawaiian theme that won't really stay true to the culture (even though they said otherwise).

I'm just hoping this will help our slowing tourism industry.

BTW, what's flame? I'm not too familiar with posting on message boards. I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you, I just wanted to clarify that disney did make a pretty good choice in location. I just think they chose the wrong time to finally build it.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Flame me if you want....but it never sounded like Disney made a wise choice with this one.....and their timing is unfortunate.....take a peek at your 401K's!!

Please don't consider this to be a flame, just a discussion.

If Disney wanted an oceanfront resort site of over 20 acres, they didn't have much choice. And Ko Olina really is a good location.

The timing might actually be very good.

If Disney had needed the services of contractors back when the economy was booming, the timing would have been bad. And if the resort were opening right now, the timing would be bad.

But Disney is now in a position to hire contractors who are eager for work. By the time the resort opens in 2011 (and DVC sales begin some time before then), the economy should be in much better shape, based on historic economic cycles.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

You really think Disney is stupid enough to begin construction right now? Have you taken a peek at the markets this morning? Have you looked at your 401K or retirement account? You can't possibly think this hasn't affected Disney's investments as well.

I think we ALL will be changing our travel plans and retirement plans for a few years.


edited to include:

Our debt will be transferred to our children and grand-children.....and it's big debt now!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

You really think Disney is stupid enough to begin construction right now?

Or is Disney smart enough to begin construction when contractors' bids are likely to be much lower than when everyone else is building?

And is Disney smart to finance the project when interest rates are very low, but financing is hard to get -- unless you're a company like Disney?

And is Disney smart enough to complete the construction in 2011, as planned, when the economy is likely to be in much better shape than right now?

I have no idea if Disney will begin serious construction this year or not. It's even possible that Disney may not proceed at all. Since the beginning of DVC, there have been several DVC projects that were announced by Disney or by other companies that were involved, but that never proceeded to actual construction.

However, Disney would not have to be "stupid" to proceed in bad times in anticipation of opening in better times.