disruptive/dangerous 5th grade classmate UPDATE #17 Draft letter to school

[mom2boys]

My son has a classmate who is exteremly disruptive in class. The child has outbursts of violence as well. Two in the past three days. I need to approach the administration with my concerns. But I'm not sure whether to start with the guidance counselor or the principal?

Reader's Digest version:
Kid doesn't do what he is supposed to. Out & out defies the teachers - even the scary bald wrestling coach male teacher. The kid takes swings (no contact yet) at the other boys at recess when no teachers are looking. Tuesday he was sent to the principal & then home for throwing the contents of his desk around the room when told to go to the principal. He was back on Wednesday. Today he was swinging his sweatshirt at some of the boys in the classroom. As he was being told to go to the principal again, he took the glasses off the face of another child & bent them. Besides taking away from instructional time, I feel this child is a danger to the rest of the students. THis child belongs in the program for children with emotional and/or discipline problems.

Any advice/suggestions?

 

[Pam]

Go to the principal.

In our school district there is a zero tolerance policy - from grades K-12. That child wold be in a lot of trouble around here.

The teachers should be doing more than sending him to the principal's office. I can't believe that the kid bent another child's glasses - was he not punished for doing that? If I were the parent of the child with the glasses, I would be raising one major stink!

 

[barkley]

we had a similar problem with a 3rd grader in my son's classroom last year (i witnessed him try to bash in another kid's head with a chair). i approached the principal and asked what type of training the staff had in anger managment and deescalating a violent situation. it opened the door to a discussion about the situation at hand. in our situation the child had been acting out progressivly worse over the past year (rotten, rotten home situation). i went so far as to remove my children from the school for 2 days until the "zero tolerance" action took place.

 

[clh2]

I'm just going to through out a potential roadblock you may encounter. If this child is on an IEP, due to a learning disability, the principal may not be able to discuss too much with you. The "rules" always seem to be different if an IEP is in place.

Good Luck - I wouldn't be too happy with this type of behavior either. Most schools in our area tend to mainstream all students in regular classes, so there just aren't alternative options for being in a class with other emotionally disturbed or discipline problems.

When you meet with the principal, try to have some ideas on solutions to the problem. Can an aide be assigned to this child to help "supervise" them, help deal with issues, so the teacher can teach?

Good Luck!

 

[CherCrazy]

What a horrible situation. How old is the child?

Going to the principal and demanding a resolution is the way to go. I feel bad for the kids that this is happening to, but something must seriously be wrong for the misbehaving child...maybe problems at home or a learning disability.

My DS had a child in his class that was very disruptive...this is in Special Ed. The child was so bad that he was preventing my child from learning. They finally did something about him when he threw a teacher against the wall and put her in the hospital with a concussion. This was in 6th or 7th grade. He has not been in my DS's class since.

School districts are so afraid that they'll be sued by the families of the bad kids, that they sometimes overlook the rights of the kids who want to learn.

 

[Jillpie]

I just went thru this the first few days of school in September with my DS, 7th grade with a very disruptive, unruly boy in his class. I simply called the main office, spoke to the secretary and she switched my son to other classes. He was thrilled. But this was the first few days when he wasn't used to the classes yet. But he knew from years past, that this kid would ruin it for everybody. This kid ended up being on my husband's basketball team for this season (he's a coach). Oh joy. Anyway, I would ask your son to be removed from the class. Its just too much work to try and change the behavior of the bad kid.

 

[mom2boys]

How old is the child?

He's in 5th grade so around 10. He is big for his age. He is bigger than the teacher - of course, she is all of about 5' & might weigh 100 LBS soaking wet. He could easily hurt her.

If this child is on an IEP, due to a learning disability, the principal may not be able to discuss too much with you. The "rules" always seem to be different if an IEP is in place.

I suspect that this child does have an IEP - he sometimes has an aide but not always.

 

[Kimberly]

My son has a classmate who is exteremly disruptive in class. The child has outbursts of violence as well. Two in the past three days. I need to approach the administration with my concerns. But I'm not sure whether to start with the guidance counselor or the principal?

Reader's Digest version:
Kid doesn't do what he is supposed to. Out & out defies the teachers - even the scary bald wrestling coach male teacher. The kid takes swings (no contact yet) at the other boys at recess when no teachers are looking. Tuesday he was sent to the principal & then home for throwing the contents of his desk around the room when told to go to the principal. He was back on Wednesday. Today he was swinging his sweatshirt at some of the boys in the classroom. As he was being told to go to the principal again, he took the glasses off the face of another child & bent them. Besides taking away from instructional time, I feel this child is a danger to the rest of the students. THis child belongs in the program for children with emotional and/or discipline problems.

Any advice/suggestions?

Is there another 5th grade class that your child can get into? Most elementary schools have several classes for each grade in the interest of keeping classes small. I would have your son changed to another class as soon as possible. Avoid the problem, at least in the classroom, outright. I would bring my concerns to the principal though about this child, it sounds like he does not belong in a class like that if he continues to terrorize everyone.

New episode of Super Nanny, you think?

 

[mom2boys]

Is there another 5th grade class that your child can get into? Most elementary schools have several classes for each grade in the interest of keeping classes small. I would have your son changed to another class as soon as possible. Avoid the problem, at least in the classroom, outright. I would bring my concerns to the principal though about this child, it sounds like he does not belong in a class like that if he continues to terrorize everyone.

I'm considering having him moved. There are 4 classes and DS has 3 of the teachers - 1 for LA & math, another for science & a third for Social Studies.

New episode of Super Nanny, you think? [/QUOTE] Thanks, I needed a laugh.

 

[MrsNick]

What a horrible situation. How old is the child?

School districts are so afraid that they'll be sued by the families of the bad kids, that they sometimes overlook the rights of the kids who want to learn.

Only until they become afraid of being sued by the families of the children who have been injured by the bad kids.

In this situation, I think I would consult a lawyer and have the lawyer send a letter to the school superintendent. I would mention that another child has been assaulted (glasses grabbed off of kids face), that others have been menaced (this kid has been swinging things at them) and that they need to come up with a plan which clearly states how they plan to handle this child's behavior. I would include in the letter a statement to the effect of: if a plan is not implemented to manage this child's negative and hostile behavior towards other children, and my child is injured as a result, then I will hold the teacher, the principal and the entire school system responsible.

If at all possible, include as many verifiable instances of the kid's negative behavior, in as much detail as possible, so that you can establish a pattern. Once the letter is sent, continue to document the behavior, certainly hoping that your child isn't attacked by this kid, but at least starting a paper trail to make your case if it should ever come to that.

In many cases, I think I'm an easy going person, but I would never tolerate my kid being threatened at school. I would let the school know I meant business on this one, or they will never give this the attention it deserves.

 

[magicfan]

I would ask for my child to be put in another classroom. Although, if they still see each other on the playground that might still be a problem, but I would ask the principal to have him watched more closely while out there. I know the playground monitors at our school are worthless. I have been there to eat lunch with my child, then watch her on the playground afterward many times, and the monitor is always chatting with another person and not paying attention. When My DD had problems with a bully last year I told her to tell the monitor and she said everytime she does the monitor tells her to "just go talk to the person". That's it! She tells her just to go talk to the person who was bullying her all the time. Great advise! I had to call and talk to the principal after that. Luckily the kid doesnt go to our school anymore.

There was another kid who used to be in my DD's class who was so disruptive that his desk was on the other side of the room from everyone else. Always in trouble. The sad thing was that his mother was always making excuses for him and blaming the teachers for exaggerating, etc... I don't know why some parents cannot admit when they have a problem with thier child.

 

[disykat]

I agree you should talk to the Principal, however I think you should talk to the teacher first. The only reason I could see going to the Principal without telling the teacher first is if you are complaining about the teacher. The first thing the principal will do is go talk to the teacher and they'll wonder why you didn't say something to them.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

Sent you a PM.

 

[Mermaid02]

Without reading everything, I would tell the teacher and the principal if your child has so much as a scratch caused by this child you will hold them and the school system responsible. Tell them you have a lawyer looking into it.

 

[hdecker]

The answer to this problem lies in removing the "bad" kid from class - not your child. The school system can't move every kid from a class because of that one kid - there isn't enough room in the other classes. I would research and see if your school system has some type of alternative school and get together with the other parents in the classroom and make an effort to get him moved there. It is not just your child that is affected by this - it's all of them. In our town we have alternative students bussed in daily from over 60 miles away - there's got to be one in your area somewhere.

 

[chris1gill]

All I can say is GOOD LUCK... I hope you have better luck than I did. In our case the kid actually MADE contact with the other students, including my son. He was as violent as they come... at 9 he had hoop earings and a leather coat & the principal told me in confidence that they just could not work with the kid, when at home the mother was a piece of work... the kid had been in and out of foster homes, then back with the mother.... There was a final straw when my son was pinned by his neck up against a cement wall We wound up putting DS in a private school where they don't accept children like this.

Our school district simply did not have a place to put this kid, at his age. He didn't do any of the class work, he wasn't even requested to do the work. I think the teacher just prayed to get through the day without an incident... he did spend about half his time either in the principal's office or suspended.... course I have suggestions here. Looking back in hindsight, I know there are things that I could have done, that I did not do.... call it inexperience.

First off, I always spoke to the teacher.. I spoke to her til I was blue in the face... nothing changed, but I did not take it further til closer to the end of the year... Once it was obvious the teacher couldn't work with the child, I should have called the guidance counselor & then the principal when nothing changed... The school is responsible for the SAFETY of all it's students... that's the bottom line. If nothing more, they are responsible for SAFETY... point that out.

If your child is assaulted after you've made your complaints, file a complaint with the police... I am quite serious. put the school in a position where they HAVE to act...

Next, if you get nowhere, go to the superintendant's office and make them aware of what is going on. You do have legal recourse if this student is violent & is left in the classroom. I wish I'd known all of this & recognized the problem & acted sooner than I did.... good for you for recognizing the signs and looking to act accordingly now instead of in June after a miserable year (like me I'm sorry to say)...

Good luck....

Edit:
I've just read all the other responses & wanted to comment on two things. First, for children so young, there is sometimes NOT an alternative school for them... that was the problem in our district. Generally, you don't have too many 8 or 9 year old's that are such a physical, violent threats. The kid in my son's class was also on an IEP for his problems... the thing you have to use here is the VIOLENCE... everything else will fall under the IEP & will keep him in the class regardless....

Next, and this is the most serious problem.... our son had serious psychological harm from being in the classroom with this kid for the year. It took him all of last year to get over the trauma... We were called into his new school because in his writings he was still writing out what he wanted to do to the kid In the 16 months since the most serious incident, the anxiety & anger has lessened quite a lot... but, my point is, keeping your kid in a class with a kid like this has consequences to your child. In my case, at the end, I just said I have to help my child, I couldn't help the whole class, but I had to help my child, whatever that meant...

This is a tough situation for you

 

[mom2boys]

Here's a draft of my letter/memo to the school. My goal is to put them on notice that my son is not to be penalized for leaving the room/playground if threatened by this child; to make them aware of the playground issues (they had no knowledge of this); and to hopefully assist them in helping "Jafar" get the appropriate help he needs.

Dear Teacher, Counselor, Principal

As discussed, I have given my son, Mickey Mouse, permission to leave any classroom or other school location at any time he feels threatened by another student. Mickey has been instructed to report directly to the Guidance Office or the Principal’s Office if he feels unsafe. Although this permission is implied for each and every student, I felt it necessary to explicitly remind Mickey that he has a right to feel safe and to be safe at school.

This stems from the behavior of a particular student in Mickey’s class. Since school began, Mickey has been relaying incidents of this child’s classroom disruptions, lack of respect for authority and disregard of school rules. Mickey has been advised not to associate, interact or be in the vicinity of Jafar.

Recently, it has come to my attention that Jafar is acting aggressively towards my son and other classmates. Jafar swings his fists towards my child (and others) as though he is going to punch him. Apparently this occurs at recess, out of sight of the playground monitors. In the most recent incident, words were exchanged between some of the children in the classroom. My son and Jafar were among the three or four boys involved in what seems to have started as a typical childhood disagreement. Suddenly, Jafar escalated from verbal bantering to physically swinging his sweatshirt at my son and another child. Jafar’s behavior rapidly escalated further as he physically removed the glasses from the face of another child.

While the educational disruptions which are occurring are cause for concern, it is intolerable that Mickey or any child’s personal safety be an issue at school.

I did speak to teacher & counselor on Friday (principal was not in)
Editorial Commentary?

 

[Wishing on a star]

If you are aware that the Principal is aware of this.. Then go DIRECTLY to the Principal. Why waste time backtracking when you know the situation is already being handled from the top.

As far as the child being on an IEP. That makes NO difference whatsoever... No parent should ever expect details regarding another child.

The OP does however have the right and obligation to go to the Principal and add their voice to the others who have valid complaints regarding this child, and her sons welfare and safety.

There is simply no excuse for a disruptive and possibly abusive child to remain in the classroom. Not even an IEP.

I would encourage the OP to put everything in writing, and schedule a meeting with the Principal.

HUGS!!!

 

[MUFFYCAT]

I'd go right down to the Prinicipal's office without calling ahead of time.
That behavior is completely unacceptable.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay,

Would you mind if I offered a bit of constructive advice on your memo???


Dear Teacher, Counselor, Principal
(Very good... CC: to all three of these people)


( I would move your opening statement till last, and begin here.....)
This stems from the behavior of a particular student in Mickey’s class. Since school began, Mickey has been relaying incidents of this child’s classroom disruptions, lack of respect for authority and disregard of school rules. Mickey has been advised not to associate, interact or be in the vicinity of Jafar.

Recently, it has come to my attention that Jafar is acting aggressively towards my son and other classmates. Jafar swings his fists towards my child (and others) as though he is going to punch him. Apparently this occurs at recess, out of sight of the playground monitors. In the most recent incident, words were exchanged between some of the children in the classroom. My son and Jafar were among the three or four boys involved in what seems to have started as a typical disagreement between ten year olds. Suddenly, Jafar escalated from verbal bantering to physically swinging his sweatshirt at my son and another child. Jafar’s behavior rapidly escalated further as he physically removed the glasses from the face of another child.
(I would add here....) It is my understanding that Jafar has been removed from class and sent to the Principal's office several times due to this behavior.

While the educational disruptions which are occurring are cause for concern, it is intolerable that Mickey or any child’s personal safety be an issue at school.

As discussed, I have given my son, Mickey Mouse, permission to
(I would suggest that you change the wording here a bit.) - to immediately leave the scene and go directly to the Principals office - at any time he feels threatened by another student. Mickey has been instructed to report directly to the ( omit the guidance office here... go directly to the top...) Principal’s Office if he feels unsafe. Although this permission is implied for each and every student, I felt it necessary to explicitly remind Mickey that he has a right to feel safe and to be safe at school.



Hope this helps!!!!