Disney's tourism market share diluted by competitors

[BarryHom]

I could say I told you so, but take a look here.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-cfbcover20012003jan20,0,6618125.story

 

[Muushka]

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting article. Yes, I think Disney has some waking up to do. I think Disney believes that ALL of their fans are loyal ones, but not this one. When I think of our trips to Orlando, I think "Oh I can't wait to go to Universal!", no longer dreaming of the mouse.

 

[ksdave]

I was just going to put that article here too. I found it very interesting because my family will be doing our first-ever non-WDW Orlando vacation at the end of the month. My kids, now DD-13 and DS-11, said they would much rather do UO and Busch Gardens than WDW this year.
Think the mouse is starting to sweat a little?

 

[Cindy B]

"If you ask any child who's, say, at least 8 years old: 'Would you rather ride on Spider-Man or It's a Small World?,' it's no contest," said Gretchen Hofmann, Universal Orlando's senior vice president of marketing.

That is so true for my eight year old son... he marks the days when he is tall enough to go on Hulk, and Dueling Dragons....


Quoting him " Walt Disney World is for Babies"... "Universal is for real kids"

 

[Kevs mom]

As you can see from my countdown calculator we were originally going back to Orlando to WDW but after discussing it we decided to try US and IOA for a change - this will be our first visit to those parks and I can't wait, I have always wanted to give them a try!

 

[Aisling]

Our family loves Universal, but my DS 17 and DS 11 would still rather go to Disney. There really is something special there in the atmosphere. When I asked my sons if they would rather ride Spiderman or It's A Small World, they "both". In our house, Disney and Universal are apples and oranges.
As for Disney being diluted, it see it as a negative for Universal in my quirky mind because now more people are finding out how fun Universal is and that means more crowds at the parks!

 

[robvia]

I could have told you that from the TRs I read here too.
People are adding USF/IOA to the end of their Disney trips, and then the next time, they skip Disney completely. I'll go later this year for Mission Space, but I haven't been there for years. Roller coaster fans expect a new ride from the park each year, and Disney has done nothing since RnR. DCA doesn't count, because that was a joke and we're talking Orlando here. BGT/SWF need to do something too. 3d movies don't compare to a 420 foot roller coaster at Cedar Point. That's where I'm flying too this year. Yes, I know the family stuff is important, but the buzz this year is about CP, always is. In Orlando, it's about the new Mummy ride. You don't hear them talking about that new 3d movie for BGT, or the new bar around the tower at SWF. Roller coasters is what people talk about.

 

[Robinrs]

Originally posted by Cindy B
"If you ask any child who's, say, at least 8 years old: 'Would you rather ride on Spider-Man or It's a Small World?,' it's no contest," said Gretchen Hofmann, Universal Orlando's senior vice president of marketing.

That is so true for my eight year old son... he marks the days when he is tall enough to go on Hulk, and Dueling Dragons....


Quoting him " Walt Disney World is for Babies"... "Universal is for real kids"

Cindy, we must have the SAME KID!! My son, now 10, had marks on the wall counting the days that he would be tall enough for the Incredible Hulk and Dueling Dragons, which actually happened by our May 2001 trip. Now he can go on it over and over and over.

He barely tolerates Disney, though he still likes TOT and RnRC, but doesn't think any rides are worth leaving USF/IOA for .

Aisling, I agree that the crowds are a major negative for us, but a major plus for the parks and our taste in what we like! Hopefully a quick build of park number 3 will help out!

You GO, Universal Florida!!

 

[Figment22]

We just returned from our second Universal only, non-Disney
trip to Central Florida. In years past we have had both Disney
and Universal annual passes but for the past two seasons, I've
just felt that I wasn't getting enough "bang for the buck" out of
our Disney AP's. UO offers so many more extras to it's AP holders
than Disney has in a LONG time. So, we've dropped our Disney
AP's and only renewed our Universal ones. Our kids (12 and 9)
are very happy at the Universal parks and don't complain about
not going to Disney World. It just seems that the Universal
parks offer more cutting edge stuff. We'll visit Disney again when
Space opens, but we most likely won't get the big buck annual
passes again.

 

[USO2003]

Disney will always be #1! Universal will NEVER! out power Disney.

Disney had what 14 Million Visitors this year to Universal's 6 Million. 8 Million more people going to Disney Universal stands no chance.

Disney stands for "Family" Family Fun & Family Togetherness, Disney has tradition Universal lacks all of this.

Disney has "Disney Magic" that magic will never fade away.

Disney will be #1 Forever.

 

[Buschfan]

Very good article. Nothing surprising to the 'experts' here. As long as Disney continues to ignore the competition in regards to discounts and expansion, their share of the market will continue to slip and rightfully so.

In regards to the 3D movie talk at Busch. They have needed this theater for years. Williamsburg has had one for at least 5 years. I love coasters too, but I understand the need for attractions the whole family can enjoy. You can have too many coasters. Kings Dominion and Cedar Point are in this category. They aren't really places for people who can't or don't ride coasters.

 

[Kevs mom]

Well as someone that buys season passes to "Kings Dominion" every year I would have to disagree - it is a lot more then just roller coasters, sure they have several but they also have a water park, 3-D movies, shows, and "family rides". I have three kids, 11, 8, and 5 and there is plenty there for all to do!

 

[WebmasterPete]

Well, I can give you some perspective as an "Orlando insider". I deal with the tourism trade very day here, and there is no doubt that Disney is losing it's grip. First, they are plain arrogant. They firmly believe that no one can touch them. IBM said the same thing back in 1980....that story almost writes itself. After Sept 11th, everyone in town was doing everything they could to attract business back to Orlando...everyone, that is, except Disney. I heard these pious lectures from Disney execs saying that "we must maintain rate integrity at our resorts". I reminded him that rate integrity went out the window when two passenger jets crashed into the World Trade Center. Sure enough, by February of 2002 they were doing so badly that they started dumping their rates. I was tempted to call the exec mentioned earlier and ask "what about rate integrity?", but I didn't. Nonetheless, it was too little, too late.

The bottom line is that Disney fell by about 20% on attendance and revenue last year, while Universal was up about 8%. That's VERY significant. If Universal can show growth during an economic downturn, that means they are not even close to hitting their market peak. Disney has hit it's market peak, mainly by having a "once in a lifetime" event every 3 years (25th anniversary, Millennium, Walt’s Birthday). What's next...the anniversary of Roy's Circumcision? Imagine the icon for that celebration.

To say that Universal will "never" challenge Disney is naive in the extreme. These people still have 2000 acres of land to develop. They may not have 18 resorts and 3 water parks, but they don't have to. And, if Vivendi sells off to Barry Diller, like I think they will, it's gonna be a blood feud from hell down here. Universal now sees that they can compete. They are hungry, they are doing well, and you NEVER underestimate a business in that position. Disney once had one park...growth is inevitable. I'm not counting Universal out just yet.

Pete

 

[the Dark Marauder]

Originally posted by WebmasterPete
Disney has hit it's market peak, mainly by having a "once in a lifetime" event every 3 years (25th anniversary, Millennium, Walt’s Birthday). What's next...the anniversary of Roy's Circumcision? Imagine the icon for that celebration.

LOL! On a serious note, though. It's 2003. Mickey was made in 1928. Yup, this is Mickey's 75th birthday year. Scary, huh?

 

[Jon360]

USO2003,

I do not understand how you can possibly say Disney will be #1 forever.

If these trends continue and Disney keeps losing market share like this year after year, they will not be #1 anymore.

If Disney wants to retain and grow their market share, they need to literally start from scratch and figure out what they can do to their parks to make people want to go back.

Mission Space is a band aid that will not heal Epcot's wounds.

Here are my top 10 suggestions for Disney to get back it's market share:

1) Make up with George Lucas and invest in a new Star Wars attraction at MGM Studios that will blow Spiderman away! Come on, this is one of the most valuable entertainment licenses of all time and Disney is blowing it by keeping the same outdated ride operating.

2) The Land, The Living Seas, Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, Innoventions, Wonders of Life, Universe of Energy..
Completely SCRAP these irrelevant attractions and pavilions and come up with something new. It's 2003, not 1985!

3) World Showcase - Can we try to invest in 2-3 attractions that are as high quality as the shops and restaurants found here? How about 2-3 new countries as well?

4) Animal Kingdom - Try to figure out why Busch Gardens is increasing their market share and Animal Kingdom is the park you only want to spend half a day in before getting bored with it. The majority of Disney characters are "animals". Can we come up with a few more creative e-ticket attractions?

5) Please take advantage of one of the most successful assets Disney has and let M. Night Shyamalan develop an attraction based on his hit movie "Signs" starring Mel Gibson. This includes having Mr. Gibson along with the original cast appear in the attraction.

6) Since Disney loves doing this, take Indiana Jones from Disneyland and put it into the Magic Kingdom in FL.

7) Fantasyland - If these aren't already in the works, Disney really sucks... Can we get an attraction featuring Monsters Inc? Lilo and Stitch? Stitch 3-D?

8) Tomorrowland - Scrap the carousel of progress, the timekeeper, and the transit authority. Come up with some new E-Tickets that will make me think this is tomorrowland, not yesterdayland. Install a new Space Mountain track that is more exciting.

9) Tom Sawyer Island - Scrap it. Build a new mountain. Hell call it Tom Sawyer Mountain. Have fun. Make this area of the park relevant.

10) Muppetvision and Great Movie Ride.... Scrap both and come up with completely new concepts.

Of course my prediction is that Disney will not use any of these obvious ideas, keep to their penny pinching ways, and continue losing market share.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO MORE OFF THE SHELF CARNY RIDES!!!

 

[Aisling]

Tomorrowland - Scrap the carousel of progress, the timekeeper, and the transit authority.

Oh please don't scrap these! These are classics and we need some of these originals as well as the up-to-date attractions. Otherwise Disney will just become a great theme park but without the nostalgia that is so important for Disney magic.

 

[Lisa F]

We spent a couple of days at universal as part of our yearly trip to WDW this past December/January and of course, the inevitable comparisons happened. We spent one day at each Universal park and honestly felt like that was enough (although we did have a very good time at both).

I think comparing "It's a Small World" to "Spiderman" is sort of ridiculous. That's like saying that the All Star resorts at Disney don't even compare to Portofino Bay. Duh! Let's compare apples to apples here.

I will admit that Spiderman does blow away anything that WDW has, but in our opinion, that was the only ride that beat out Disney. We couldn't help but compare the equivalent rides across the board, such as the Dudley Doright Flume ride with Splash Mountain and the Cat in the Hat ride with Pooh and frankly, we preferred the Disney rides over the Univeral equivalents. We did not do any of the roller coasters, however, because we're not really roller coaster people.

We did think the the Universal Studios park beat out MGM in many (but not all) ways, though, but as a pair, US and IOA did not beat out the WDW resort for us. Here I think comperable rides would be star tours and back to the future, and there is no question that back to the future wins hands down. I thought that T3 was pretty good and I liked the integration of various technologies, but I also felt that the 3d effects were sort of gratuitious because of it. Frankly, it's not something I would feel comfortable bringing a family to that included small children to, whereas I think the Muppets is something that everyone can enjoy.

As far as getting rid of all of the "classic" rides and putting in basically all E-ticket attractions, we thought that was a HUGE downside of USF in general. We had the "front of the line" thing because we stayed at the portofino, but frankly we thought the parks were severely lacking in anything to do besides either stand in line for an e-ticket type ride or ride an e-ticket type ride. Unless you want to go on hulk several times, you quickly run out of things to do. I think one thing that I love about the Disney formula is how there are so many things to do that don't involve stress on your body.

I disagree with many of the suggestions posted for making Disney "better" but I do think that Disney needs to be able to better distinguish what rides are old nostalgic classics that need to stay (TTC and carousel of progress, the Land consistently has long lines so it must be doing SOMETHING right) and what rides are just plain outdated and need to be replaced (both Star Tours and Body Wars, IMO, but I could come up with a longer list if I had to). I do think some of the ride additions lately have been nothing short of lame. I do think that Disney needs a kick in the pants to break out of the status quo. I do NOT think the solution is to turn WDW into IOA, get rid of all classic and A-D ticket type rides and put in only E-ticket rides though. IMO that would be an even bigger mistake on the part of Disney than their current attitude.

Lisa

 

[USO2003]

If Animal Kingdom the worst accuse for a Theme Park (In My Opinion) can get more vistitors then both IOA & USF then Disney will be #1.

 

[E.Jane]

This thread really got me thinking!

I have been a Disney-holic since our first trip in 1997 (we've only had two!). And I'm not a fan of disney-paraphinalia (sp?) at all, but there was something truly magical about being at Disneyworld with two young kids. We are going back to Orlando in March, but not visiting Disney at all, at the kids request. I'm feeling very unsure of an Orlando trip without Disney!

So I asked myself what it was about Disney that made me feel so nostalgic. I grew up in Ireland, on a diet of cartoons on Saturday morning that were Disney, and disney only. There was nothing else. Then I read about a place called Disneyworld opening, and saw it on the TV and thought that that just had to be the most special place in the world. So when I finally moved to North America, and had my family, it was only natural that our first big family vacation was Disneyworld. Honestly, as corny as it sounds, I could have cried when I walked through the gates at MK. And I realise now, that the nostalgia I felt was my own - my childhood memories coming flooding back. My kids were thrilled to be there, but didn't have any sense of nostalgia. They couldn't have cared less about Mickey or Minnie or Goofy or Cinderella (two boys, I should mention!), they just wanted to ride the rides and see the attractions. They watched Mickey and Minnie cartoons until they were 4 or 5, then the teenage ninja turtles and power rangers took over! Now, they want all those special effects and "you're-gonna-loose-your-dinner" roller coasters!

I think Disneyworld will always be nostalgic for our generation because we really were the Disney generation. Unfortunately, our children are not. When they are older, they may find it a neat place to take young kids to because the rides are tame and the atmosphere will be right. But as our children and grandchildren get older, the nostalgia will come from what they grew up with - Spiderman, the Terminator, Men in Black, and whatever else is yet to come. What will happen to Disney when our generation is gone? Will our kids look back and think fondly of Disney, or will they be nostalgic thinking about rides like Hulk, Spiderman and Men in Black? If my two kids are any indication, I would say Disney won't be top of the list. My kids will take their kids to places like IOA and US because these types of parks will represent the places where they felt thrilled and overwhelmed with excitment during their childhood. Just like we did/do when we take a trip down memory lane and think of Disney.

 

[ksdave]

E.Jane made some excellent points. The biggest is that WDW is not updating its parks to stay current with today's kids. These kids only stay five for a short time. Just look at what is happening this year at the two resorts. Universal is putting in three new/reworked attractions based on movies/a TV show that were released over the last several years: Jimmy Neutron, Shrek and Mummy. Disney is finally (maybe) going to open a new attraction in Epcot that is not based on any of their latest successful movies (Mission Space). Plus, from what I have read on these boards, it will be a major hurl machine that very few younger kids will be able to ride anyway.
If WDW doesn't want the share degradation to continue, they have to start creating a few major attractions based on their latest successful movies NOW. Not doing something with the door scene from Monsters, Inc. is just plain dumb. I'm sure millions of people, both kids and adults, watched that movie and thought "THAT would make for a great ride at WDW/Disneyland". Did the mouse people do anything? No, they were too busy trying to salvage ABC and buy carnival rides that look like something out of the 50's.
My family and I will have a great weekend next week spending my money at UO and BG. NO mouse money here.