Disney World still creating magical memories?

[gharter]

FWIW, the single biggest thing that I've noticed over the years that increasingly negatively impacts my enjoyment of WDW isn't any management/operation thing WDW has done, it's simply people. Old man rant here for a sec (even though I'm just 40), but people have gotten worse and worse and worse over the years. Inconsiderate, selfish, obnoxious, rude, etc etc. "Vacation brain" has always been a thing, but now it's just flat gotten almost unbearable IMO. People feel more entitled than ever, and it shows, especially during the busier days in the parks (which are more and more).

We have gone to WDW for many years, and sadly, we have noticed the same thing. Not sure if there is a connection, but since the parks reopened since Co-Vid, the obnoxious, rude, entitled mentality seems to be worse. Or I'm just noticing it more.

 

[dreynolds1982]

We have gone to WDW for many years, and sadly, we have noticed the same thing. Not sure if there is a connection, but since the parks reopened since Co-Vid, the obnoxious, rude, entitled mentality seems to be worse. Or I'm just noticing it more.

I definitely think it's worse, and not just at Disney. I live in a big coastal tourist town and have seen it here as well. More crowds than I ever recall, and more obnoxious behavior than ever as well. I know that "revenge tourism" is a thing right now (where people are traveling more than ever to "make up" for lost time during Covid) so maybe as that burst calms down the behavior will as well. Who knows.

 

[DaviVascaino]

I think you will enjoy at Disney trip as much as you let yourself enjoy it. Me and my entire family have been huge Disney fans since I was a baby. I've been a CM on both the frontline and corporate sides, my sister is a Disney TP, etc. I have been to the parks more times than I could ever count. My wife and I still go whenever we can, and we have a blast every single time. As does my sister and her family. Do I miss certain things from the past? Sure. Am I happy with every recent decision they've made (or every past decision)? Absolutely not. Can they improve? You bet. But for us, the magic is still there. But hey, for others, maybe it isn't. That's a decision each person has to make for themselves. If you don't like the way the parks are now, best way to show Disney you're not happy is to spend your money elsewhere.

FWIW, the single biggest thing that I've noticed over the years that increasingly negatively impacts my enjoyment of WDW isn't any management/operation thing WDW has done, it's simply people. Old man rant here for a sec (even though I'm just 40), but people have gotten worse and worse and worse over the years. Inconsiderate, selfish, obnoxious, rude, etc etc. "Vacation brain" has always been a thing, but now it's just flat gotten almost unbearable IMO. People feel more entitled than ever, and it shows, especially during the busier days in the parks (which are more and more). It's unfortunate, but now we just try and go to the parks with the right mindset, less pressure/planning, and just take things as they come and enjoy ourselves. It has made a HUGE difference for us.

I totally agree, and I am 39. People are so self entitled. Bunch of brats.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

the reason those days have never sold out in the past is because Disney is limiting the number of guests it will allow into each park on any given day. Nobody knows where the capacity is set, but it's somewhere below official fire code capacity. Disney is using the need for park reservations 1) to spread out guests more evenly among the four parks and 2) to determine the staffing levels they will need in each park per day. This is good for Disney, so it's going to continue.

All that means is that you need to book your parks as soon as you know which ones you want to visit. Don't wait. You can probably change them.

I haven't used Genie plus. If you want to use it, you do need to budget for it. I would read up on how to use it and on whether you will actually need to buy it every day, though. Lots of resources out there.

There's also no way to know at this point how the Florida legislature's move will affect actual vacationers at WDW, so there isn't much that can be done about that right now. maybe put that aside to worry about when it actually happens.

Yes plan on price increases for admission and food. That is going to happen until the demand goes down far enough. Yes, people are worse. They are worse everywhere.

Otherwise, nothing much is different. There are still some things that haven't returned from closure, but almost all of those will be back.

 

[cdh]

My family loves Disney but I think that the magic is gone. Our trip in May was incredibly frustrating. Our room, one bedroom villa at BLT, was meh at best. The bus situation stressed us out. The app doesn’t work nearly as well as a magic bands. The parks are crowded with incredibly long lines. People are rude and inconsiderate. That’s the short version. I’ll describe each of those in some detail now.

The room was just under $1000 per night. I’ve stayed there a few times before but this villa really needed some refurbishments. When we arrived I didn’t have magic bands so I tried to unlock the door with the app. So, we stood in the hall with our luggage while I fumbled around getting the app to work. It took about ten minutes before I finally changed the necessary settings and got the door unlocked.

I immediately went to the Contemporary and bought Magic Bands. They were just under $100 for our family of three and the selection was really limited. We bought three bands that we didn’t like and were on our way. The sundry shop in the Contemporary has far less items than in the past. I always bragged on how they had everything you might need. That is no longer the case. We had a nice dinner at Ohana. That was the highlight of the trip.

The next morning I got up to get a lightning lane for Rise of the Resistance and Rock and Roller Coaster. Besides having to be up early I realized that there was another problem….it’s hard to get the LL passes timed well. For example, if Rise was at 12:30 then I would want RNRC at 11:30 or 1:30. This was easy to accomplish with fast passes but it’s hard to do with LL. The problem was that the earliest LL for Rise was around noon….Ok, great, got it….but the LL passes for RNRC hadn’t caught up. You can’t get a 11 if they are still only at 9. With FP you could check a certain time but you can’t do that with LL. So, it’s a PITA to get your day to flow smoothly with LL. There is an exception, if you are park hopping and you want to buy a second ILL for a different park then you can choose the time for that ride. I saw several people trying to use their phones to check in for LL who were held up while a cast member tried to figure it out. I wouldn’t want to depend on the app. It’s funny that there’s no problem paying for LL with the app but there’s a problem using LL with the app.

Now, the busses and the people. The buses didn’t arrive as often as they had on our previous trips. This means that by the time the bus shows up there is a long line. We were on buses with people coughing like crazy, with children literally crawling on the floor and screaming, and there was always someone who was running to catch the bus just before it pulled out….they usually had a stroller and no idea of how to fold it. Eventually we just started using Lyft Lux Black. That was great.

This post is already long enough and I know that I sound bratty and entitled but this trip was $6000 without dining and it wasn’t magical at all. The only rides we rode were the ones that we had LL. The other lines were so long that it wasn’t worth it. The food was ok but not wonderful and I’m starting to think that these parks just stuff as many calories as possible on a plate. I can cook just as well at home if I don’t care that a plate consists of fifteen hundred calories.

I’m happy for but a little confused by people who still find it as magical as it was in the past. I’m in no way critical of their reviews. They are probably just more optimistic and tolerant than my family. The OP just wanted an honest review of recent trips and this was our experience. I was the type of person who always recommended Disney to friends and helped them plan their trips. We went to Disney about thirty times in the past ten years. We always stayed in deluxe resort, bought Deluxe Dining (when it was available, went to any after hours events during our trips, etc. We loved the place but now it’s time to move on.

 

[cdh]

BTW, I just want to add that I was annoyed by the price increases but I would have been willing to pay it if I was getting the same trip as in the past. This pay more, get less stuff is for the birds.

 

[Stefien Quix]

This has been a really productive conversation, so I really want to thank everyone who has chimed in!! Some great points and it's really helped spark some of the eagerness to go back to Disney again.

I think, for me, and my family, and my budget, I think once the cost of the vacation tips over a certain threshold, I start to get anxious about "getting my moneys worth" whatever that ambiguous logic means, lol. And the last thing I want to do is to bring that kind of negativity with me on vacation. And I also try very hard to avoid stepping into the "vacation brain' mindset.

So I think, again, for me, what I'm thinking is where the price tag becomes untenable is when I try to factor in staying on-site at one of the resorts. What @cdh experienced echoes some of my concerns in that regards. I've stayed on site on special occasions in the past, and there's no denying that being on-site helped make the vacation extra magical. But I think I'll be better off saving that for special occasions.

I think staying off-site, paying for just the tickets to Disney and budgeting for the G+ add-ons will allow me to let go of some of my anxiety over trying to make the most of every second and just go with the flow.

I'm largely processing this as I'm typing it, so I appreciate you all being with me on this journey, lol!

 

[Shughart]

My family loves Disney but I think that the magic is gone. Our trip in May was incredibly frustrating. Our room, one bedroom villa at BLT, was meh at best. The bus situation stressed us out. The app doesn’t work nearly as well as a magic bands. The parks are crowded with incredibly long lines. People are rude and inconsiderate. That’s the short version. I’ll describe each of those in some detail now.

The room was just under $1000 per night. I’ve stayed there a few times before but this villa really needed some refurbishments. When we arrived I didn’t have magic bands so I tried to unlock the door with the app. So, we stood in the hall with our luggage while I fumbled around getting the app to work. It took about ten minutes before I finally changed the necessary settings and got the door unlocked.

I immediately went to the Contemporary and bought Magic Bands. They were just under $100 for our family of three and the selection was really limited. We bought three bands that we didn’t like and were on our way. The sundry shop in the Contemporary has far less items than in the past. I always bragged on how they had everything you might need. That is no longer the case. We had a nice dinner at Ohana. That was the highlight of the trip.

The next morning I got up to get a lightning lane for Rise of the Resistance and Rock and Roller Coaster. Besides having to be up early I realized that there was another problem….it’s hard to get the LL passes timed well. For example, if Rise was at 12:30 then I would want RNRC at 11:30 or 1:30. This was easy to accomplish with fast passes but it’s hard to do with LL. The problem was that the earliest LL for Rise was around noon….Ok, great, got it….but the LL passes for RNRC hadn’t caught up. You can’t get a 11 if they are still only at 9. With FP you could check a certain time but you can’t do that with LL. So, it’s a PITA to get your day to flow smoothly with LL. There is an exception, if you are park hopping and you want to buy a second ILL for a different park then you can choose the time for that ride. I saw several people trying to use their phones to check in for LL who were held up while a cast member tried to figure it out. I wouldn’t want to depend on the app. It’s funny that there’s no problem paying for LL with the app but there’s a problem using LL with the app.

Now, the busses and the people. The buses didn’t arrive as often as they had on our previous trips. This means that by the time the bus shows up there is a long line. We were on buses with people coughing like crazy, with children literally crawling on the floor and screaming, and there was always someone who was running to catch the bus just before it pulled out….they usually had a stroller and no idea of how to fold it. Eventually we just started using Lyft Lux Black. That was great.

This post is already long enough and I know that I sound bratty and entitled but this trip was $6000 without dining and it wasn’t magical at all. The only rides we rode were the ones that we had LL. The other lines were so long that it wasn’t worth it. The food was ok but not wonderful and I’m starting to think that these parks just stuff as many calories as possible on a plate. I can cook just as well at home if I don’t care that a plate consists of fifteen hundred calories.

I’m happy for but a little confused by people who still find it as magical as it was in the past. I’m in no way critical of their reviews. They are probably just more optimistic and tolerant than my family. The OP just wanted an honest review of recent trips and this was our experience. I was the type of person who always recommended Disney to friends and helped them plan their trips. We went to Disney about thirty times in the past ten years. We always stayed in deluxe resort, bought Deluxe Dining (when it was available, went to any after hours events during our trips, etc. We loved the place but now it’s time to move on.

I appreciate this review and what I took from it, is that you get what you pay for, and in the past it sounds like the experience of Disney for you was Deluxe and worth the deluxe price, as that's how you stayed at Disney and I would counter that it's no longer a deluxe experience. You mention that you're a little confused by people who still find it was magical, and I wonder if your experience would be different if you had stayed at a cheaper Disney property, or offsite. You mention you stopped relying on buses after a while and started utilizing Lyft. After both of our trips, of which were vastly different we've pieced together what really works for us and what doesn't. Staying in the parks is not a value for us. Especially now that they've gutted so much. We also do not rely on Disney transportation unless it's for fun (I love the ferry/monorail). We drove down this past trip (2019) and we're flying this December and renting a car, because our last two trips showed us that the Disney buses really bring our experience down (and have since 2016) and we prefer access to a vehicle. The rental is an added cost, but it's somewhere that's a priority for our comfort, mental state while we're on our trip and it helps us keep the magic. The bubble is a nice thought, but not if it stresses us out or makes us feel like we're not getting what we paid for. JMO.

 

[cdh]

I appreciate this review and what I took from it, is that you get what you pay for, and in the past it sounds like the experience of Disney for you was Deluxe and worth the deluxe price, as that's how you stayed at Disney and I would counter that it's no longer a deluxe experience. You mention that you're a little confused by people who still find it was magical, and I wonder if your experience would be different if you had stayed at a cheaper Disney property, or offsite. You mention you stopped relying on buses after a while and started utilizing Lyft. After both of our trips, of which were vastly different we've pieced together what really works for us and what doesn't. Staying in the parks is not a value for us. Especially now that they've gutted so much. We also do not rely on Disney transportation unless it's for fun (I love the ferry/monorail). We drove down this past trip (2019) and we're flying this December and renting a car, because our last two trips showed us that the Disney buses really bring our experience down (and have since 2016) and we prefer access to a vehicle. The rental is an added cost, but it's somewhere that's a priority for our comfort, mental state while we're on our trip and it helps us keep the magic. The bubble is a nice thought, but not if it stresses us out or makes us feel like we're not getting what we paid for. JMO.

We always loved being in walking distance of at least one park. That limited us to deluxe resorts. Like you mentioned, transportation to the parks was frustrating from time to time so it was nice to be able to walk to MK at the end of the day. For a couple of years we used Minnie Vans. They’re back now but they weren’t available when we were at Disney in May. We drive to Fl (so we have a car) but my husband doesn’t like driving at Disney.

Like so many others have mentioned recently, we went to Universal for two nights and really enjoyed it. The deluxe hotels provided perks that made the trip much more relaxing. We will probably go to Universal instead of Disney in the future. When Disney was at its best it was a far better trip than Universal but now, for us, Universal is so much better.

I said that I’m confused by people who find it as magical as before the changes…..that really boils down to the fact that I don’t understand why anyone would be happy to pay more and get less. Prices go up, I get it, and if the trip that cost $3500 in 2017 was $6000 today then I wouldn’t think much of it but the $6000 trip was nowhere near as nice as that $3500 trip. That presents a problem. Other people really don’t seem to mind and I’m happy for them. I sometimes wonder if they are just better, more tolerant people. I watch a YouTube channel called Paging Mr Marrow (he does a lot of Disney reviews). He is so happy all of the time. When I watch his videos my cheeks actually hurt from smiling so much. I’m enamored by his optimism. That’s the kind of person who may not mind paying more at Disney now. I’m more like George Costanza from Seinfeld.

You really summed it up perfectly. For deluxe prices I expect a deluxe experience. We may be happy staying offsite for less but Disney is a twelve hour drive. With the travel time and limited vacation time we are really hoping for a magical experience. Once my husband retires then we may be happy to stay offsite because we can stay as long as we want. Right now, we go to Disney to spend time in the parks so staying offsite would reduce the amount of time we could be in the parks. Thanks for your reply. I hope that all of your trips are wonderful.

 

[OppR2nist]

I would say there's magic to be had, but things in the parks are changing, so you just have to be willing to change with them. That's always been a thing with Disney. I went in the 90's, and the core of the parks were the same, but it was a very different experience than we had in 2017, which is when I first brought my children. We've gone every year since then (minus COVID), and each trip there were countless times where something wholly unexpected and magical happened. It's not hard to find. You just have to keep your eyes open.

 

[Marionnette]

This has been a really productive conversation, so I really want to thank everyone who has chimed in!! Some great points and it's really helped spark some of the eagerness to go back to Disney again.

I think, for me, and my family, and my budget, I think once the cost of the vacation tips over a certain threshold, I start to get anxious about "getting my moneys worth" whatever that ambiguous logic means, lol. And the last thing I want to do is to bring that kind of negativity with me on vacation. And I also try very hard to avoid stepping into the "vacation brain' mindset.

So I think, again, for me, what I'm thinking is where the price tag becomes untenable is when I try to factor in staying on-site at one of the resorts. What @cdh experienced echoes some of my concerns in that regards. I've stayed on site on special occasions in the past, and there's no denying that being on-site helped make the vacation extra magical. But I think I'll be better off saving that for special occasions.

I think staying off-site, paying for just the tickets to Disney and budgeting for the G+ add-ons will allow me to let go of some of my anxiety over trying to make the most of every second and just go with the flow.

I'm largely processing this as I'm typing it, so I appreciate you all being with me on this journey, lol!

I've had a difficult time swallowing Disney's new pay-to-play Genie + . It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to pay additional money, on top of my regular ticket price, without any guarantees that I will be able to do at least one headliner.

But waiting in hour-long standby lines for attractions that I have done before also leaves me irritable.

So I have a choice to either suck it up and pay the $15 pp ransom to Chapek or waiting in long standby lines that suck what little value there was out of the $100+ park ticket that I used to get in. Unfortunately, I will likely choose the former because the latter will just make me miserable.

 

[miss0033]

I haven't read through all the replies. My 2 cents for anyone who cares;

If you go looking for the bad - you'll find it. If you go looking for the good - you'll find it.

If you go expecting the same trip you had 5-6 years ago - it won't be there. If you go in with an open mind, I have little doubt you will enjoy your trip.

We used to go to alternate national park trips with WDW/DCL trips taking one big trip every year. If you think the "getting less for spending more" problem is only at Disney, you are out of your mind and haven't travelled anywhere recently. Lodging prices to go to a destination is out of this world, especially around major destinations such as WDW and National Parks. Flights are more expensive than ever before, and are currently more likely to get cancelled than ever before. Rental car prices are INSANE and then people are showing up having a reservation and there aren't any cars left for them.

The National Parks themselves have been the same price for far too long. There is a massive maintenance backlog, things are closed and rundown many places. Go to Yellowstone (inside the park), you'll get a far worse room than a WDW and pay close to the same price, if not more during peak season. People little everywhere, go off-trail and trample things, vandalize. Our last NP trip we said would be awhile, many hikes are becoming very crowded, and I don't go to a national park to take a hike and end up listening to someone else blaring their choice of music over their bluetooth speakers, having vape (or other) smoke cloud competitions, and climb all over iconic landmarks for their instagram photos.

Too many people everywhere treated their vacations as "This is my vacation, I am doing whatever the F I want" with zero consideration to anyone else around them. The number of times we've heard "IT's America! This is a Free Country!" as an excuse, is abhorrent.

So if you think you can take a vacation to another major tourist destination and avoid these things, Good Luck! If you do find, I wouldn't tell anyone about it because it will fill up quickly, and eventually become overrun as well.

That being said, I read all the negative things people had to say before our week long trip this past April, and was expecting the worst. We had a fantastic trip other than some dining issues. The parks themselves were great, and my kid (who has no idea about pre-Covid WDW) loved it, wasn't aware she was missing anything, and I wasn't about to point it out to her.

EDIT:
To add to my post, does anyone else on here golf? Tee time prices at many courses near me have nearly doubled from 4-5 years ago, and that is if you can actually get a tee-time. Not to mention many courses reduced maintenance schedules (or just simply lack of time, due to the courses being constantly jam-packed right now). Many courses have dropped the beverage cart, or raised prices so much that its become stadium price at $14+ for a beer. So I am paying more to golf, golfing less due to cost and lack of tee time availability, and getting a reduced experience due to lack of maintenance.

These problems are not unique to Disney at all.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

I think it's all in what you set your mind to
If you go in there telling yourself there's no, or little. magic, that's what you'll get.
You'll set yourself up for just that. It's 90% your mental mind set.
That's not to say it's the same Disney of old, it's not. It's changed. No doubt. Still mostly what you make it

As to parks being completely sold out, that's just not true. Unavailable park reservations is not sold out parks in terms of full to capacity. Those are 2 completely different things.

 

[VWLMember]

For us, the magic is gone. Have made more than twenty trips since 1995. Been DVC members since 2002. Last trip in May 2021 was nothing more than frustration on a level we have never experienced. Game over. Points are up for sale now and no buyer in three months so far. Time to move on.

Update 6/29: Points have sold! We are officially out.

 

[quandrea]

So I guess my question to both of you is if its not the rides, thinking back to your last WDW vacations, where did you find your magical moments and/or how did you frame the vacation in your mind so your attitude wasn't impacted by giant lines, crowded parks, or a limited budget? Please know I'm asking this from a genuine place. I think @gharter is likely onto something about having the correct attitude, so I feel like the best way not to be frustrated or disappointed would be to know what people did to keep the magic alive for their visits.

I think having a good plan really helps, and a willingness to get there early and stay late. We break in the afternoon. I was just there in early May and had a truly wonderful trip. I was very meticulous about taking notes on wait times and the effectiveness of my touring plan, as I’m preparing for a large gathering trip in October. Genie+ worked well for us, but I also skipped it for comparison’s sake. I did very well without it by using early entry. So the old strategies still apply.

 

[Figvention]

I said that I’m confused by people who find it as magical as before the changes…..that really boils down to the fact that I don’t understand why anyone would be happy to pay more and get less. Prices go up, I get it, and if the trip that cost $3500 in 2017 was $6000 today then I wouldn’t think much of it but the $6000 trip was nowhere near as nice as that $3500 trip. That presents a problem. Other people really don’t seem to mind and I’m happy for them. I sometimes wonder if they are just better, more tolerant people. I watch a YouTube channel called Paging Mr Marrow (he does a lot of Disney reviews). He is so happy all of the time. When I watch his videos my cheeks actually hurt from smiling so much. I’m enamored by his optimism. That’s the kind of person who may not mind paying more at Disney now. I’m more like George Costanza from Seinfeld.

You really summed it up perfectly. For deluxe prices I expect a deluxe experience. We may be happy staying offsite for less but Disney is a twelve hour drive. With the travel time and limited vacation time we are really hoping for a magical experience. Once my husband retires then we may be happy to stay offsite because we can stay as long as we want. Right now, we go to Disney to spend time in the parks so staying offsite would reduce the amount of time we could be in the parks. Thanks for your reply. I hope that all of your trips are wonderful.

This! For all my fire and brimestone... for 6,000 you can make my bed daily and provide fresh towels. I know I beat the mousekeeping drum often, but this is the sign that you not getting your money's worth. We stepped down from the Deluxe Dinning plan to the standard (1 sit/1 quick) plan in 2018, not because the food was bad, very much the opposite, the Deluxe food was so good that I ate way to much (didn't need two sit down meals a day). Since 2018 the table service restaurant food quality has plummeted (outside of a handful of Springs/Epcot restaurants) and the price as gone up faster than inflation rates. If you cannot make my bed daily and provide something not much better than TGI Friday's for sit down food, I'm not paying DELUXE prices, ever. I do not care if I can walk/monorail/see fireworks from my room, the dollars just don't make sense. We now stay offsite at a walkable Disney Springs Hotel and will split a stay at a value resort, only on park days to get early entry. The 50 dollars a night more than the DS springs hotel is a worth the cost of early entry.

 

[_19disnA]

Over the years I would say we went to Disney about once every 5 yrs or so just because the rides/shows didn't change that often. There are a number of other places we enjoy vacationing just as much. We went back in 2019 before covid since relatives with small children invited us to join them and it had been a number of years since our last visit. We basically found it way too crowded and expensive to enjoy compared to our prior visits. They let far too many people into the parks for the available ride capacity and none of us wanted to wait in 2+hr lines after using up our 3 daily FastPasses. I can recall one weekday we were at AK and the narrow walkways were jammed with wall-to-wall people making just moving around a challenge. No amount of advance planning is going to reduce the number of other people at any park. We left to go to a different park. It didn't appear that Disney has ever made any attempts to widen various narrow walkways which are clearly not able to handle the current volume of people they let into the parks. Overcrowded parks is the #1 issue Disney needs to address. Neither FastPass nor the new Genie thing will solve the issue of letting too many people into the parks. I also don't get how they design some of these newer rides with insufficient capacity to handle the larger crowds. That new Star Wars ride is sold out within minutes of the park opening. Didn't anyone designing the ride realize it would be such a big draw? I would assume designers start with estimates of demand and then design the cars/tracks/building/etc. based on how many people they need to handle hourly/daily. Tron hasn't opened yet, but am wondering if it will have a similar issue?

Disney also seems more focused on the big/glitzy new rides instead of modernizing the older ones. That 3D muppet movie hasn't changed in probably the past 20 years. Seems they could have at least developed a newer movie in that time. "It's a Small World" with the plywood/glitter cutouts seems way past its time for a redo and looks amateurish by current standards.

I don't get wrapped up in those local political issues. Things come and go and any changes in that regard will likely takes years to impact the general public. Who knows if any of that ever happens one way or the other?

I would say it now takes at least 2x as long to do the same number of things at any Disney park compared to the past. Just waiting in a few rides lines can eat up a significant part of your day. Disney vacation costs roughly 2x as much as other popular places we like to go and for us the value/enjoyment is no longer there. We have ZERO plans of returning and will spend our vacation $$$ elsewhere.

 

[miss0033]

Over the years I would say we went to Disney about once every 5 yrs or so just because the rides/shows didn't change that often. There are a number of other places we enjoy vacationing just as much. We went back in 2019 before covid since relatives with small children invited us to join them and it had been a number of years since our last visit. We basically found it way too crowded and expensive to enjoy compared to our prior visits. They let far too many people into the parks for the available ride capacity and none of us wanted to wait in 2+hr lines after using up our 3 daily FastPasses. I can recall one weekday we were at AK and the narrow walkways were jammed with wall-to-wall people making just moving around a challenge. No amount of advance planning is going to reduce the number of other people at any park. We left to go to a different park. It didn't appear that Disney has ever made any attempts to widen various narrow walkways which are clearly not able to handle the current volume of people they let into the parks. Overcrowded parks is the #1 issue Disney needs to address. Neither FastPass nor the new Genie thing will solve the issue of letting too many people into the parks. I also don't get how they design some of these newer rides with insufficient capacity to handle the larger crowds. That new Star Wars ride is sold out within minutes of the park opening. Didn't anyone designing the ride realize it would be such a big draw? I would assume designers start with estimates of demand and then design the cars/tracks/building/etc. based on how many people they need to handle hourly/daily. Tron hasn't opened yet, but am wondering if it will have a similar issue?

Disney also seems more focused on the big/glitzy new rides instead of modernizing the older ones. That 3D muppet movie hasn't changed in probably the past 20 years. Seems they could have at least developed a newer movie in that time. "It's a Small World" with the plywood/glitter cutouts seems way past its time for a redo and looks amateurish by current standards.

I don't get wrapped up in those local political issues. Things come and go and any changes in that regard will likely takes years to impact the general public. Who knows if any of that ever happens one way or the other?

I would say it now takes at least 2x as long to do the same number of things at any Disney park compared to the past. Just waiting in a few rides lines can eat up a significant part of your day. Disney vacation costs roughly 2x as much as other popular places we like to go and for us the value/enjoyment is no longer there. We have ZERO plans of returning and will spend our vacation $$$ elsewhere.

Universal has the exact same problems with new rides. Huge waits for Kong, Velocicoaster, Harry Potter rides, etc. That is not unique to Disney. We went to Cedar Point during the summer a few years ago, I think our shortest wait for any of the main rides was 45 minutes, with many stretching into the 90 minute range. I don't know how you can design rides, that are still enjoyable, that can handle the level of crowds that we are seeing. Omni-movers like haunted mansion seem to do it best, but even those have waits. And then people complain when they have to slow-down or stop them to help people load and un-load.

Disney is letting in too many people? Okay. But the levers Disney can pull to manage crowds, like higher prices, park reservations, etc. everyone whines incessantly about. So which way do people want it? Everything super cheaper and there be a crush of crowds constantly?

Most parks don't refresh older rides. Plus, look at the backlash Disney has faced when they refresh older rides. Pirates, not many on here were happy. Lots of complaining about re-theming Slash Mountain. There might be a mutiny by some people if they re-did Its a Small World. Again, you cannot please all the people all the time.

Everyone vacations differently. And of course you, and everyone else, is welcome to spend their money where they see fit. As I posted higher above, this paying more and getting less is happening everywhere that my family travels. Reduction in number of room service days, if any at all. National Park Lodging prices has sky-rocketed, and many places availability is going 12 months in advance, or right when the booking season opens. In Yellowstone, for example, you can expect to pay $450+ per night for a Motel 6 style room. Yosemite's Deluxe hotel is $1,000+ per night during peak season. Things taking twice as long? In Zion National park you can sit at bus stops while full bus after full bus zoom past. It is incredibly busy, and not setup to handle the volume of traffic it is seeing.

Disney does cost 2X as much as many other popular places, but other vacation pricing is seeing major price increases as well. We have had to cut way back on our National Parks trips for many of the same reasons everyone complains about Disney - Too Crowded, Too Expensive, and no longer like the trips we took 10 years ago.

I haven't liked a lot of the changes at Disney either, but to pretend like these problems are only occurring at Disney seems a little odd to me.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

Universal has the exact same problems with new rides. Huge waits for Kong, Velocicoaster, Harry Potter rides, etc. That is not unique to Disney. We went to Cedar Point during the summer a few years ago, I think our shortest wait for any of the main rides was 45 minutes, with many stretching into the 90 minute range. I don't know how you can design rides, that are still enjoyable, that can handle the level of crowds that we are seeing. Omni-movers like haunted mansion seem to do it best, but even those have waits. And then people complain when they have to slow-down or stop them to help people load and un-load.

Disney is letting in too many people? Okay. But the levers Disney can pull to manage crowds, like higher prices, park reservations, etc. everyone whines incessantly about. So which way do people want it? Everything super cheaper and there be a crush of crowds constantly?

Most parks don't refresh older rides. Plus, look at the backlash Disney has faced when they refresh older rides. Pirates, not many on here were happy. Lots of complaining about re-theming Slash Mountain. There might be a mutiny by some people if they re-did Its a Small World. Again, you cannot please all the people all the time.

Everyone vacations differently. And of course you, and everyone else, is welcome to spend their money where they see fit. As I posted higher above, this paying more and getting less is happening everywhere that my family travels. Reduction in number of room service days, if any at all. National Park Lodging prices has sky-rocketed, and many places availability is going 12 months in advance, or right when the booking season opens. In Yellowstone, for example, you can expect to pay $450+ per night for a Motel 6 style room. Yosemite's Deluxe hotel is $1,000+ per night during peak season. Things taking twice as long? In Zion National park you can sit at bus stops while full bus after full bus zoom past. It is incredibly busy, and not setup to handle the volume of traffic it is seeing.

Disney does cost 2X as much as many other popular places, but other vacation pricing is seeing major price increases as well. We have had to cut way back on our National Parks trips for many of the same reasons everyone complains about Disney - Too Crowded, Too Expensive, and no longer like the trips we took 10 years ago.

I haven't liked a lot of the changes at Disney either, but to pretend like these problems are only occurring at Disney seems a little odd to me.

I've come to the conclusion that people like to hate on Disney because they are a big and easy target. And no matter what they do, change things, don't change things, people will complain, often the same exact people complain about both. It's incredibly frustrating and no wonder Disney has quit trying to please. It's an impossible task any more. People can't be pleased. It's almost like they no longer want to be pleased, they just want to complain.

In the same way they seem to like to pretend that the tourism industry is ok everywhere else. That housekeeping in all other hotels is back but Disney is the only place where it's cheap and not back. That only Disney is raised room rates. That only Disney has taken away things and lost customer service. I don't get it. Maybe folks really don't get out and go anywhere else? I know we do. And you are right. Rates are sky high all over. Housekeeping is not back in hardly any hotel we stay at. I know we stay regularly in a fairly nice boutique hotel, so happened to be featured in a show on Magnolia Network in just the past few weeks, on a regular basis, when attending sporting events in a neighboring city where we hold season tickets. So we stay about 1 weekend a month. There's no housekeeping during our stay. Rates are on par with a Disney deluxe, regular room. Can go higher if it's a really popular game series. But, we pay for the convivence of no traffic in and out of the event. Much like folks pick to pay for Disney resorts. We have gotten to know the staff and really like them and know they are doing their best and know how understaffed they are, just like everyone everywhere is.

 

[jimmymc]

• That now that FastPass+ has gone away and this new Pay-to-Play replacement is in place, that our budget needs to be way higher than it was.
  • I'd say try Genie+ on your Magic Kingdom day and see how you like it. You can still get on most rides in a day even without it.
• The changes that Gov. DeSantis have implemented stripping WDW of its special status are going to either a) result in even higher costs or b) subpar park experiences or c) both
  • I doubt these are going to happen period. It was a big publicity stunt by DeSantis that doesn't come into effect until 2023, the state will realize it's now on the hook for paying what Disney used to pay for, and they'll quietly repeal it.
• The park seems to be more crowded than ever before with days completely selling out that never did in the past
  • It's no worse than when I visited in 2019. It looks worse online because so many days are sold out, but I personally think the reservation system is keeping crowds reasonable, as opposed to the miserable days you used to get around holidays and school breaks.
• And of course, the one that never seems to have changed, but still has to be factored in, the annual monster bump in the parks tickets.
  • Death, taxes, and Disney raising prices. This is probably going to be the biggest concern over the next few years. Everything in the parks and at the resorts is still there like it used to be, you're just now paying more. I try to prepay for as much as possible so I don't worry about it while on vacation. Just tap your cards when you need to and total everything up when you get home.

Probably the biggest difference in how I travel now is I bought DVC in 2021. Since I bought resale at a point where prices were at a dip, I can stay in deluxe studios for between $200 and $250 a night, plus the cost is spread over monthly payments I don't notice as much. Now the cost of a trip is just the tickets and food. This has also allowed me to spend more time at the resorts and visiting places like Universal and Sea World. Expanding my trips beyond the parks has been the biggest change brought on by the changes, but an overall positive one.