Disney World is BROKEN!

[mom2rtk]

But riding on rides multiple times in one day is not the goal of the typical family.

Maybe for YOUR family.

Not everyone values the same things.

 

[crostorfer]

arguably right now you get a significant fp+ by booking in advance and not having to wait at the kiosks in the morning... now that wasn't the case for the person you referenced- it is potentially a perk going forwrd

She referenced me, but your point has no merit in reference to what I was saying, considering I got all day, unlimited FOTL privileges for staying in a very deluxe room, for less than I paid for a much smaller room at a less well appointed resort, at Disney. Why would I pay more to get less?

 

[crostorfer]

We are able to ride RIDES with our FP+.

We can also wait in stand-by for the lesser RIDES without much delay.

As for the need for multiple rides on the same RIDE(s), we simply are not on the same page. There is always the next day or next trip if stand-by lines dictate we move someplace else.

For instance, we scheduled our last FP+ to meet Mickey in MK even though our child has not really shown an interest in characters beyond princesses. Her excuse for being afraid, "I wanted to see Minnie Mouse." My 4 y.o. was OK with her being told that we will visit Minnie on our next trip as since we were moments away from leaving to the airport and did not have time to wait to see Minnie.

Can stand-by time for 'E-ticket' rides be mitigated by arriving early in the morning? Yes.

But riding on rides multiple times in one day is not the goal of the typical family.

I wholeheartedly disagree, or regular FP never would have been used as much as it was.

You have a 4 year old. I have a 10 year old. Your vacation wants and needs are very different than mine. My 10 year old doesn't want to meet charecters because grown ups in suits with masks creep her out, and she can't wrap her head around why grown ups want to play pretend face charecters.

Quite frankly I don't give a crap how you use FP+. If it works for you, great. It's a hinderance to me. You can keep going to WDW. I've had enough.

 

[AquaDame]

We are able to ride RIDES with our FP+.

We can also wait in stand-by for the lesser RIDES without much delay.

As for the need for multiple rides on the same RIDE(s), we simply are not on the same page. There is always the next day or next trip if stand-by lines dictate we move someplace else.

For instance, we scheduled our last FP+ to meet Mickey in MK even though our child has not really shown an interest in characters beyond princesses. Her excuse for being afraid, "I wanted to see Minnie Mouse." My 4 y.o. was OK with her being told that we will visit Minnie on our next trip as since we were moments away from leaving to the airport and did not have time to wait to see Minnie.

Can stand-by time for 'E-ticket' rides be mitigated by arriving early in the morning? Yes.

But riding on rides multiple times in one day is not the goal of the typical family.

Judging by your signature, you are missing a key piece of the puzzle here. What if you DON'T have a next day, or *gasp* know when your next time will be? We just returned yesterday, and yes, my fears were not unfounded. I am not a fan of this FP+ and so for the first time, I do not know when we will be back.

Define much delay. If you go often, maybe a 40 minute wait isn't a big deal for you. If you see those 40 minutes as a challenge to your opportunity cost since you only have 10 hours to do as much as you can, then it becomes a problem. Especially if you can't go from rope drop to close due to ADRs or children or sheer exhaustion. Again, lucky you to be able to tell your 4 year old that she will be back soon. Most of us do not have that luxury.

If rides were not the primary focus of a good chunk of their customer base then where do the lines come from? Next time you go (you lucky person you) do us a favor and stand by the exit queue. I think you will be surprised at the number of gleeful faces shouting AGAIN, AGAIN!!! Then go to the entrance of the standby queue and watch the crestfallen faces as families debate about their use of time.

Three rides a day where one is a headliner, one is a moderate wait than you can typically stomach on the worst of days and one useless FP is not enough. Riding my favourite ride one time is NOT ENOUGH, riding one headliner once a day is not enough. Think of the price, think of the wait in life to go back for most people. We don't care how long a wait for the lesser rides are, especially because its never that bad compared to the GOOD rides. What matters is, can you still easily access what makes you happy, and we found that even in a slow time of year we cannot.

Rope drop DID NOT WORK FOR US. I can't stress that enough. We just got back, and from rope drop the lines were huge. Yes, we were able to go straight to a headliner without much wait. At AK, we went to everest and waited 12 minutes. By the time we exited, it was a 35 minute wait but the line stretched to the exit which was further along than the entrance point, so likely was more like 45. At HS we went to RnR, waited 18 minutes, and it was at 50 when we exited. ToT happened to be closed, but TSMWM was at 60. MK did remain delightfully slow (we went on a wednesday where it was freezing all day - did not go above 40 until after 2pm) aside from random spikes at random rides throughout the day. At Epcot we went and rode Test Track, Soarin' was marked as 45 minutes when we got off. That was at ROPE DROP without wasting any time at all. Before we could always bang a couple rides out in that first hour, but it was not to be this trip, and since we were fully limited to three tiered FP per day, it was wait or don't ride. We definitely did not repeat much this trip and both left feeling quite jilted.

 

[btk2333]

She referenced me, but your point has no merit in reference to what I was saying, considering I got all day, unlimited FOTL privileges for staying in a very deluxe room, for less than I paid for a much smaller room at a less well appointed resort, at Disney. Why would I pay more to get less?

I'm not saying you should. If you feel like you get more for your money at Universal, by all means stay at Universal. We've stayed at both- for us Universal is not good for any more than a day or two so we don't have much desire to stay at their resorts. We've considered doing one day at a Universal resort for the FOTL pass- but haven't had much desire to go back to Universal since 2008 - might make a trip over there at some point in the next five years.

 

[flicx]

Rather then build new attractions, they spend a billion bucks and more on FP+ to encourage better traffic patterns at the ones they have.

This is the best line yet. The old fast pass system wasn't broken . So WHY FIX IT? Take the billion dollars and add some attractions . Lord knows EPCOT has a few that were running and are setting empty now! Can you say body wars and half of the imagination ride. How about a new 3d movie?

 

[shalom]

I'd also like to know what percentage of people going to a WDW park are first timers and, more importantly, I'd like to know if that percentage was changing. FP- was a bigger benefit to people who'd done their research (a very small percentage of first timers), and people who'd been before and knew the system. FP+ will likely benefit first timers, and is a huge benefit to people who like to "take it easy" on vacation. If the percentage of first timers was going down and FP+ is intended to bring it back up, the odds of tweaking it so it looks like FP- are a lot lower, I would guess.

I wholeheartedly disagree, or regular FP never would have been used as much as it was.

The question, though, is what percentage of people going to the parks actually used FP. If only a small percentage of people used regular FP, then it was a huge benefit for that small group, but the rest of the people attending the park paid the price for it in longer stand-by lines. Fast pass wasn't designed so that some people could get more rides with less wait; it was designed so more people would be in the stores and restaurants, spending more money.

While I think what we have now is not what FP+ will ultimately look like, what is clear is that Disney is not interested in going back to FP-. Going on the rumor that even paying for extra FPs won't get you a second ride on something, using FPs for repeated rides is one of the things Disney wanted to stop. Even if Disney does put that option back in, I suspect a repeat will cost more than an FP at something new.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Nobody else really does, either, especially touristy places. There are always deals in terms of coupons and discount websites and my hubby has been known to walk in, ask for the manager, point out how offseason it is, and get a deal on the spot.

OTOH, a surprising number of people do pay Disney's rack rates, particularly the seasons when those rates are highest. Disney discounts when it has to in order to fill the rooms, but even most discounts are limited to a certain percentage of particular hotels.

I agree, definitely lots of people paying rack rate during the very busy weeks (Christmas etc).

The rest of the weeks..Looks like there were constant discounts going last year with a few weeks of exceptions. Of course not for every hotel, but still. Word is, they want to start cutting back on free dining and room discounts...but will they really be able to?

 

[mom2rtk]

Going on the rumor that even paying for extra FPs won't get you a second ride on something, using FPs for repeated rides is one of the things Disney wanted to stop. Even if Disney does put that option back in, I suspect a repeat will cost more than an FP at something new.

Disney could have ended that at any point in time in the last 15 or whatever years by programming the kiosks to only allow one FP ticket per ride. I think even Disney's IT system could have accomplished that easily.

More thank likely with the unleashing of the FP genie with FP+ they just don't have the capacity to continue it any longer.

 

[jco_direwolf]

. More thank likely with the unleashing of the FP genie with FP+ they just don't have the capacity to continue it any longer.

Think about it. The legacy FP system had built-in limiters you could only get 1 pass once your first pass window opened or 2/1 hours later. Then you had to go back to the FP machine and get your pass. Each step works as a delay/circuit breaker/ impedance to them running out.

With allowing multiple rides with FP+ they are basically inviting the high demand attractions to full up 3x (or maybe 2x) as fast. You think TSMM is a pain with Legacy FP? Now you'd have to do the clicking 60days ahead at 7a.

Therefore I agree we'll never see it in advance for FP+. The only time I expect to see it is when/if they turn on surprise FP+, when they know you are in the park and using MDE they can send you a push notice "for the next hour you have a FP+ for mickeys philiharmagic"

 

[estherhead]

I'd also like to know what percentage of people going to a WDW park are first timers and, more importantly, I'd like to know if that percentage was changing. FP- was a bigger benefit to people who'd done their research (a very small percentage of first timers), and people who'd been before and knew the system. FP+ will likely benefit first timers, and is a huge benefit to people who like to "take it easy" on vacation. If the percentage of first timers was going down and FP+ is intended to bring it back up, the odds of tweaking it so it looks like FP- are a lot lower, I would guess. The question, though, is what percentage of people going to the parks actually used FP. If only a small percentage of people used regular FP, then it was a huge benefit for that small group, but the rest of the people attending the park paid the price for it in longer stand-by lines. Fast pass wasn't designed so that some people could get more rides with less wait; it was designed so more people would be in the stores and restaurants, spending more money. While I think what we have now is not what FP+ will ultimately look like, what is clear is that Disney is not interested in going back to FP-. Going on the rumor that even paying for extra FPs won't get you a second ride on something, using FPs for repeated rides is one of the things Disney wanted to stop. Even if Disney does put that option back in, I suspect a repeat will cost more than an FP at something new.

I don't know if the percentages are changing, but it use to be 80% were first timers 3 years ago. And at Disneyland 20% were first timers.

 

[shalom]

I think even Disney's IT system could have accomplished that easily.

But if the percentage of people using legacy FP was low in the first place, doing that would have ticked off one part of your clientele without much benefit to the other. I do agree that, since FP+ is supposed to involve more people using FPs, repeat rides will have a higher impact on standby lines.

One of the reasons I'd love to know the percentage of people who used legacy FP is that, for instance, if 10% of people were using FP-, and 90% are using FP+, then even the slower FP lines now are not as big a deal as they would be if the numbers were closer. The fact that it's a new system means slower lines, but if a much higher percentage of people are using FP now, then those slower lines could still be read as "success" from Disney's perspective, because they're moving "Z times whatever" people through the FP lines using the time it used to take to move Z.

 

[mom2rtk]

But if the percentage of people using legacy FP was low in the first place, doing that would have ticked off one part of your clientele without much benefit to the other. I do agree that, since FP+ is supposed to involve more people using FPs, repeat rides will have a higher impact on standby lines.

One of the reasons I'd love to know the percentage of people who used legacy FP is that, for instance, if 10% of people were using FP-, and 90% are using FP+, then even the slower FP lines now are not as big a deal as they would be if the numbers were closer. The fact that it's a new system means slower lines, but if a much higher percentage of people are using FP now, then those slower lines could still be read as "success" from Disney's perspective, because they're moving "Z times whatever" people through the FP lines using the time it used to take to move Z.

I'd like to know too. But based on the uproar about FPs running out on headliners every day (even in low season) I'd say word was out and plenty of people were using it.

 

[jco_direwolf]

I'd like to know too. But based on the uproar about FPs running out on headliners every day (even in low season) I'd say word was out and plenty of people were using it.

The thing we don't know (and I know I was in this class) most days I would use 2-3 legacy FP for soarin. Grab FP1, ride SB, grab FP2, ride FP1, come back, grab fp3 and ride fp2...generally FP3 would be for 6-7 p.

Same is true for Space and TSMM. EE I generally could ride it 4-5x on FP and single rider.

 

[clsteve]

Judging by your signature, you are missing a key piece of the puzzle here. What if you DON'T have a next day, or *gasp* know when your next time will be? We just returned yesterday, and yes, my fears were not unfounded. I am not a fan of this FP+ and so for the first time, I do not know when we will be back.

Define much delay. If you go often, maybe a 40 minute wait isn't a big deal for you. If you see those 40 minutes as a challenge to your opportunity cost since you only have 10 hours to do as much as you can, then it becomes a problem. Especially if you can't go from rope drop to close due to ADRs or children or sheer exhaustion. Again, lucky you to be able to tell your 4 year old that she will be back soon. Most of us do not have that luxury.

If rides were not the primary focus of a good chunk of their customer base then where do the lines come from? Next time you go (you lucky person you) do us a favor and stand by the exit queue. I think you will be surprised at the number of gleeful faces shouting AGAIN, AGAIN!!! Then go to the entrance of the standby queue and watch the crestfallen faces as families debate about their use of time.

Three rides a day where one is a headliner, one is a moderate wait than you can typically stomach on the worst of days and one useless FP is not enough. Riding my favourite ride one time is NOT ENOUGH, riding one headliner once a day is not enough. Think of the price, think of the wait in life to go back for most people. We don't care how long a wait for the lesser rides are, especially because its never that bad compared to the GOOD rides. What matters is, can you still easily access what makes you happy, and we found that even in a slow time of year we cannot.

Rope drop DID NOT WORK FOR US. I can't stress that enough. We just got back, and from rope drop the lines were huge. Yes, we were able to go straight to a headliner without much wait. At AK, we went to everest and waited 12 minutes. By the time we exited, it was a 35 minute wait but the line stretched to the exit which was further along than the entrance point, so likely was more like 45. At HS we went to RnR, waited 18 minutes, and it was at 50 when we exited. ToT happened to be closed, but TSMWM was at 60. MK did remain delightfully slow (we went on a wednesday where it was freezing all day - did not go above 40 until after 2pm) aside from random spikes at random rides throughout the day. At Epcot we went and rode Test Track, Soarin' was marked as 45 minutes when we got off. That was at ROPE DROP without wasting any time at all. Before we could always bang a couple rides out in that first hour, but it was not to be this trip, and since we were fully limited to three tiered FP per day, it was wait or don't ride. We definitely did not repeat much this trip and both left feeling quite jilted.

Articulate, and with specific data. Thanks.

 

[maxiesmom]

It seems very strange to me that I went in December, and had such a different experience using FP+. We did rope drop or soon after every day. And for the first 90 minutes were able to go on ride after ride after ride. Maybe it is because we followed EasyWDW's recommendations?

I came away from that trip very pleased with how FP+ worked, and with how many rides we were able to do each day.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It is too crowded that is true.

The other problem is the lack of rides at the other three parks (DHS, AK, Epcot).

This is a huge issue, IMO. It's pretty sad that DCA has more attractions in its 1 park than epcot/DHS combined...

It's pretty clear that TDA's focus is on attractions and that TDO's is definitely not.

 

[luv2sleep]

This is a huge issue, IMO. It's pretty sad that DCA has more attractions in its 1 park than epcot/DHS combined... It's pretty clear that TDA's focus is on attractions and that TDO's is definitely not.

Who's TDA and TDO?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Who's TDA and TDO?

TDA = Team Disney Anaheim
TDO = Team Disney Orlando

 

[katt789]

I honestly have to say that I'm not bothered by the crowds. Although I have seen a rise in them since the first couple of trips I've taken.
Sept 2011 was superbly low, low crowds, lots of space, and super low waits
Fast fwd to Sept 2012 and the crowds have picked up, but not enough to really bother me.
April 2012 was more on the crowded side with TONS of preschool kids out and about making lines for slower rides and characters just over the top, whereas headliners and big rides were pretty much walk ons.

I've been down to Disney practically once every two month since Jan 2012 and haven't really had a "crowd" problem, minus the one trip right after thanksgiving weekend when New Fantasyland was about to open. Heck,we were there for the parade taping in MK this year and it was fine!

I think it's all about how you do it, and if you go in with a smile on your face saying "this is going to be awesome".

Yes, sometimes you get stuck waiting in rides for far longer than wanted (we waited an entire emh at tsmm in Sept, that was a waste), and sometimes the crowds seem to be taking over, and that's when you either: find a quiet place in the park and just relax, sit down, wait a little bit, smell the roses, or go back to the resort, try to book an adr to get out of the parks to get a breath of fresh air. You're never going to be able to do it all, so why not smell the roses while you're there?

FP+ is Disney's current "way" of dealing with wait times, and the biggest problems we had with it taking too much time was because scanning the bands takes forever, much longer than holding up a paper fp. So far, it's worked wonderfully for us, and we've got no complaints on it.