Disney Wonder -- NEVER AGAIN!!!

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toadman

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I recently took my 13-year-old daughter and a friend of hers on the November 28th 3 day cruise on the Disney Wonder. Over all, I would like to say it was a successful vacation since the kids thoroughly enjoyed themselves and the many teen activities kept them occupied for the entire voyage. There were areas that I thought could stand improvement and I intend to mention them to you merely as suggestion; however, after I heard more details about some of the teen activities, I now have serious concerns about the safety of my children aboard the Disney Cruise Lines.

First, during the orientation to the teens at the Common Grounds on the first night of the voyage, the kids were advised not to smoke where the staffers could see them but rather to find someplace where they would not get caught. They should have been informed that smoking was strictly forbidden by minors anywhere on ship and that anyone caught smoking would be reported to their parents; instead, they were told to find places where they would not get caught.

Second, the staff played a game one night that was something like the old Dating Game where groups of boys and girls were asked questions by the staff. When the game started, the staff told the kids that the question “What is you favorite Disney Character and why” was a signal that an adult had entered the room and that they participants should be on guard. Tell me why such a signal was necessary? What should be taking place that the kid’s have to be warned about a parent’s presence?

The answer to that last question is that approximately one third of the questions asked of the participants were sexual in nature. The panel of girls were asked this: “if you could be a thong, a pair of briefs, or a pair of boxers, on which of your favorites stars would you like to be and why?” One girl replied “she would like to be a pair of briefs on Brad Pitt.” Asked why and she responded so she could be even tighter against him (in the area of his genitals, clearly).

The boys were asked for their most embarrassing moment on a date. One boy replied that he could not answer because they would think it was too nasty. At this point, when the staffers should have dropped the issue or moved on to another contestant, they choose instead to push him to provide his answer. Which was: “once, in a theatre, I was sitting on the back row and my girl friend was doing the chicken on me - i.e., oral sex - and when I finished, I missed and made a mess.

I am incredulous that these questions were asked in front my 13-year-old daughter and even more so that the staff did not have the common sense to avoid potentially inappropriate responses. I asked both of my girls and they said that at least one fourth to one third of the questions were sexual in nature. I find this utterly unacceptable on a Disney cruise.

I choose Disney precisely because I trusted your staff to ensure proper behavior and proper interaction between the boys and girls. I expected your staff to prevent such inappropriate behavior and to make sure that teens didn’t smoke or attempt to roam the ship when their last activities where over for the evening.

Yet one night, following a dance that lasted until 2am, my daughter and friend returned to the stateroom at 2:30. How can that be possible? Why are there no staffers roaming they ship to prevent such behavior? My daughter said kids were finding hiding places to smoke or to make out all over the ship. I repeat, where was the staff?

Clearly, your present teen counseling staff does not understand their job. Their job is to ensure that the kids have fun in a safe and appropriate environment. Their job is to make sure the kids are back in their state rooms immediately following the last events.

To this end, I submit the following suggestions.

Schedule no teen events to end past midnight. 2am is far, far too late for families to remain up waiting for the return arrival of young teens. And it certainly makes it difficult to wake them at 8 in the morning to begin their day. When the last event is over, have the teen staffers roam the decks for perhaps half an hour to make sure that the kids have indeed returned to their rooms. As an alternative, only allow the 16-18 year olds to attend the midnight to 2am events.
Place a camera with audio in the Common Ground that is viewable either on a screen outside the Common Ground or on the ship’s television network. You already do this with the basketball court so the technology is currently available to you on the ship. Virtually all of the under 21 clubs that my daughter frequents have similar monitoring either on site in a parent’s room or via the web.
Find out who the staff was on the night of the game show on our cruise and dismiss them for asking sexually suggestive questions in front of young 13 year olds.


Finally, to my more general remarks, as a single parent, I was bored silly on this cruise. It seems that virtually every adult activity assumed that all adults love to dance the night away. Being single, that wasn’t even a possibility. Further, there were virtually no events that families comprised of teens and adults could enjoy together. I found that the only activity on the Wonder that a single parent could indulge in was sitting at a bar alone.

Over all, it was a very disappointing and expensive experience. The utter lack of adequate supervision for the teen crowd was simply incredulous. The facts that teens were allowed to prowl the ship after hours was appalling. I would never again take a Disney cruise and I would certainly NOT trust anyone associated with Disney to supervise my children in the future.
 
That sounds horrible! I can't imagine such things going on!! How inexcusable of Disney! Has anyone else had these things occur? How about on the Magic?? We are going on our second cruise in June 2003 and my son will be 13 this time and be going to Common Grounds...if this type of thing regularly happens on all the cruises, we will not permit him to attend... Did you mention any of these things to the staff while on your cruise?? Were any actions taken or any "excuses" (not that any would be acceptable!) given? I feel awful your daughter had to be exposed to these things and hope this is not the regular practice of the cruise line!!
 
Wow... I've read that younger teens would feel uncomfortable in the kids clubs but I always assumed that it was comprised mostly of older teens... not because the activities were full of sexual innuendo. I'm just floored about that. Anyone else who have teens who have done the teen activities care to comment? Regardless of the adult nature of the conent of the games, it sure seems like it might be a good idea for Disney to have separate activities for younger teens to go, maybe the 13-15 year old set. It seems to me that the mere 4 year difference between a 13 year old and a 17 year old is HUGE at that age.

As far as Disney's supervision of teens, that's often a debate around here. My personal feelings on the subject is that parents either trust their kids, don't trust their kids, or don't care. In any of those cases, it's up to the parents to police their own kids. If you don't want them out that late, set a curfew. Just because an activity runs til 2am doesn't mean your child has to attend it. I think in the case of the teens, the staff is there to help entertain them, not to police them. I do think that advice on how to misbehave and not get caught is over the top and unacceptable.

I'm sorry you didn't find any of the activities that don't require you to dance the night away. My husband and I HATE dancing but always found plenty to do. The shows were a lot of fun, and we always caught at least one of the shows in barrel of laughs. We also enjoyed sitting in the cadillac lounge and listening either to the live music or the music headsets there. In fact, we choose to cruise on Disney because we are not typical "drink/smoke/gamble/dance the night away" type people and really enjoy the activities on board for those of us who are old fogies before our time. :)

I did think that Disney had "singles mixers" to help single people on the ship find some friends. Did they not have this on the 3 day Wonder? If they did have it, did you attend it and find it to be a flop?

Lisa
 
You should definately write a letter to DCL outlining your concerns. I agree that the counselors acted inappropriately. One thing I feel though is that it is not the CM's responsiblilty to walk children back to their cabin. Definitately not making excuses, but you will find teens roaming around on any cruiseline late at night, not just DCL.

I think your suggestion to have older teens only be able to attend the later night activities a good one. As far as family/teen activity together...I guess is all is a matter of personal opinion. We have been on 6 DCL cruises and always had family time together at the games shows (which we enjoy) and separate time, which we also enjoy.

We have three teens that have been in the teen program 6 times. I have never heard them comment about this, but then again I never specifically asked them if this kind of talk went on. They usually meet other teens, and hang by the pool and then attend certain activities.

Thank you for posting.

MJ
 

Oh MY! I have wondered what things would be like when the kids hit the teenage group! Now I know I don't want them in it! Already I have concerns about my kids moving to the 10-12 year old group next year. Thanks for posting this. I think if we take our kids on the cruise when they are older it will be do to 'family' things together and not for them to join in with the teen group activities. I really appreciate you sharing this information.
Debra
 
Wow, that sounds very uncharacteristic of Disney. What did Guest Relations say when you told them of your daughter's experience?

I'm sorry to hear that you had a negative cruise experience on Disney.
 
Thanks for posting. Not having a teen I have no idea what goes on in Common Grounds but I expected the activities to be more 'wholesome'.

Although it has been said that Disney reads this board I beleive your comments and children's observations need to be sent directly to DCL management.

Does anyone have to address?
 
I hear what you are saying. We too will be sailing on the same cruise and I have two seventeen year olds. They plan on spending some time in Common Grounds but not a lot; but, I too feel the direction of that some of the games were headed is very inappropriate in that mix of an age group and especially if they were "sanctioned " by Disney CM's leading the game/discussion or further questioning some of the kids to further explain whatever comments they made.

I encourage kids to talk about their feeling and concerns and have a safe place to do it; but, the Disney Cruise Line is not the time or place - that belongs in the home with proper supervision where correct and factual responses can be made and explained. Unfortunately not all kids are allowed or afforded this opportunity, but I feel it is not Disney's place to step in and provide such a "service" especially when the CM's in the Common Grounds area are probably not professionally trained to mentor or conduct such a discussion much less deal with any consequences that may arise from embarrassed teens that had no idea what they were getting into when originally joining in on the games

That's my 2 cents worth...
 
You know, my kids didn't have the 'greatest' experience with the other kids on our last cruise. I thought that was probably due to the fact that we were on a 7 day cruise and the kids became more restless (undisciplined/bored) than they would on a 3 day cruise. But at least the CM's in charged seemed to be doing a good job. I am nervous about my kids moving up to the 10-12 year old group next year, and after this post I don't ever want them in the teen group!

Has anyone else had a teen participate in the ship's activities? Would your teens tell you if this is typical? if they had similar experiences? This is just terrible! And I am worried because I recommended the cruise to friends who have a daughter who will be 13! Now I wish I had never said anything to them! This family would NOT be comfortable with this type of experience for their daughter.

I would really like to know what other teens have experienced in the program on board.
Debra
 
Wow... It seems to me that the mere 4 year difference between a 13 year old and a 17 year old is HUGE at that age.

It wouldn't be an issue if the content were supervised. But this content and the signals to warn of approaching adults PROVES that the counselors intended or expected the content to be unacceptable and inappropriate.


I think in the case of the teens, the staff is there to help entertain them, not to police them.

When I send my child to a Disney supervised event, they are IN THEIR HANDS and their safe return is THEIR responsibiity. If they know -- based on their own advice about the best places to avoid being seen -- that kids are out on the decks, it would not hurt to have the teen counselors patrol the upper decks for a mere half hour following the last teen function.


I do think that advice on how to misbehave and not get caught is over the top and unacceptable.

I would agree. Just as I believe the "signals" were unacceptable. I think a camera in the Common Ground that can be watched on the ship tv network (as they already do for the basketball court) would help to eliminate these problems.


I'm sorry you didn't find any of the activities that don't require you to dance the night away. My husband and I HATE dancing but always found plenty to do. The shows were a lot of fun, and we always caught at least one of the shows in barrel of laughs. We also enjoyed sitting in the cadillac lounge and listening either to the live music or the music headsets there.

Magic phrase there - "My husband and I" - I was alone.


I did think that Disney had "singles mixers" to help single people on the ship find some friends. Did they not have this on the 3 day Wonder? If they did have it, did you attend it and find it to be a flop?

Yes, it was a flop. And only on the first night. It would have been great if they had something fun for singles that wasn't dance oriented every night.
 
Originally posted by westjones
Has anyone else had a teen participate in the ship's activities? Would your teens tell you if this is typical? if they had similar experiences? This is just terrible! And I am worried because I recommended the cruise to friends who have a daughter who will be 13! Now I wish I had never said anything to them! This family would NOT be comfortable with this type of experience for their daughter.

I would really like to know what other teens have experienced in the program on board.
Debra

This was actually our second cruise! I think the only reason I found out about what really goes on inside the Common Grounds this time is that my daughter took a friend with her this time and on the drive back from the airport, they were in the back seat laughing and talking about these things. There were other things too such as boys offering them cigarettes, discovering other kids making out on the decks at late hours, etc.

I'm sure the first cruise was similar but I just wasn't told about it.
 
Originally posted by Dadtojbj
Wow, that sounds very uncharacteristic of Disney. What did Guest Relations say when you told them of your daughter's experience?

I'm sorry to hear that you had a negative cruise experience on Disney.

So far, I have been unable to find an adress or name of any responsible individual to whom I could voice my complaints.
 
Dear Toadman,

You have outlined (in graphic detail), many of the concerns I've heard about young teens in the program. You have also outlined may good suggestions. I WONDER if you know that this board is frequented by young teens? Your descriptive comments could be just as out of place on this board as in the Teen club. In the future, maybe you could be a bit more general. We adults could PM and ask you for the sordid details without you seeming like a guy who enjoys shock value (though I'm sure you intended to have your complaint taken seriously), or even talking dirty (which was my initail impression).
Sorry about your trip. It does give one somethings to consider for cruising, as well as simply staying in touch with our children, and what is actually going on with them. My DS will "be almost 13" when we sail in January, and was hoping to be able to join the teen group. HA! DD was hoping to jump to the 12 yr old group. Double HA! We have been on several cruises, and Disney, far and away, has superior programming. We will be taking a cruise hiatus after our children turn 13, and focus on more vacations where children aren't simply turned over to some program so we may not feel guilty about ENJOYING ourselves. There are plenty of ways to enjoy time with your teens, though they may protest. Thanks for the heads up on this issue.

tlgoblue
 
Originally posted by toadman
So far, I have been unable to find an adress or name of any responsible individual to whom I could voice my complaints.

check out Barb/Tony's website -- they have an email address for DCL listed. That is where I would start.
www.castawayclub.com


With that said -- We have been on DCL 3 times with teens and I've never encountered any of your experiences. I did not allow my kids free roam of the ship. They were also given times to check in with me on a regular basis as well as a curfew. They checked in to let me know where they would be at any given time -- and yes , I did casually check up on them. It was nice have organized activities provided by Disney for my teens but I still felt it was my responsibility to be in the background supervising them. I am not stating this to say that I think you did anything wrong -- what you encountered is horrible and no excuses can be made for it. I just wanted to state that I had not experienced any of these things --- and I really feel that DCL should be notified about it ASAP.
 
My DD13 was on the 11/2 Magic. I didn't hear anything like that from my daughter.

I do know that they played some sort of 'game' that lasted for 12 hours. It was supposed to start at noon, but got started late. Hence, it went from 1:30PM to 1:30 AM. To our good fortune (not my daughter's :D ), she was knocked out of the game in the first hour, so she had no urgent interest in how it turned out. I think she stopped back in to the club once in the evening to see how it was going but that was it. The game was to 'kill' off of the rest of the players. You either had to poison them (writing poison on tape and sticking it to their cup) or stabbing them with a napkin. Bizarre but tolerable.

If I had heard of your experiences she never would have gone back. I'll have to ask her about some of the other activities. All in all, she spent far less time in the club than I expected. I guess that was a good thing! :)
 
We will be taking a cruise hiatus after our children turn 13, and focus on more vacations where children aren't simply turned over to some program so we may not feel guilty about ENJOYING ourselves. There are plenty of ways to enjoy time with your teens, though they may protest.

tlgoblue: Big Thanks! I have always maintained my position (yes, even on vacation) that the rules don't change with the circumstances. Ultimately, WE are in charge of our kids, nobody else. Young teens still need lots of supervision!

Not just on this board, but lately I've noticed how everyone seems to want to bring their children on vacation with them and then proceed to find every way imaginable to send them off. Personally, we go on vacation to be together as a family. If my husband and I wanted a "child free" vacation, we would make appropriate arrangements for them to stay home. Besides, we have a ball with our kids - I would hate to miss out on those memories. Just one family's opinion......
 
Wow! Im really disapointed that DCL would encourage this behavior. Im sure that the teens really look up to the CM since most of them are in there 20s. Teens still need and want boundries. Why encourage behavior that is not healthy, especially when you have such a wide age group. I am aware that some teens smoke and are sexually active, but as adults we should not be encouraging it. They should be shown how to have fun without those things. I do not have teens but have hosted 7 exchange students. We always gave them rules and for the most part they followed them. When we had parties they were kept so busy they really did not have time to get into trouble. DCL needs to impress upon these CMs that they are looked up to and should set high standards for themselves and the teens. We have friends going with a 13 year old and she would be very uncomfortable in this setting. If my kids were that age I'd be monitoring it very close.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the 10+ year olds are automatically allowed to sign themselves in and out of the programs meaning parents have no idea where they might be at any given time. I think the staff needs to rethink their policies. My child was in the 8-9 program and I didn't get any negative feedback but I will have to be cautious about future cruises.
 
Wow,

That whole scenario is pretty frightening. I also would have expected something more wholesome from Disney for the 13 year old set. I agree that there is a big difference between a 13 yo and a 17 yo and perhaps the teens should be segregated into two groups.

I also agree that children are ultimately the parents' responsibility, but people choose a Disney Cruise often because they do have such wonderful (and ostensibly safe) kids' programs. I am not worried about the 8-9 group that my DS8 will be in this time, but if those issues are common in the teen group we'll choose a different vacation in 5 years!

I definitely would bring this issue to Disney... I can't imagine that they would condone such behavior.
 
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