Disney Wonder -- NEVER AGAIN!!!

[Michelle]

I have known many teens in the programming and none of them has EVER described a similar experience in the programming, and I know I would have been told if something like this occured.

The correct e-mail address is dcl.guest.communications@disneycruise.com . It has been changed. If you were unhappy during the cruise I hope you spoke to the staff then.

 

[SweetSpot]

einswine:

You are given the option of allowing your children to sign themselves out in the 10-12 club. If you choose to allow your child to sign out you can have it set up that they will beep you and let you know that your child signed out and where they are heading. If you choose to not allow them to sign themselves out then they will beep you and they will not allow your child to leave under any circumstances without you signing them out and giving them the password. They are extremely strict with these rules and I found the clubs to be very secure. Even on the last night of the cruise, after they all knew me very well, they still required my password before I took my sons out.

I am also disappointed to hear about the conduct in Common Grounds and I am sure that it is the individual CM's who act in this manner on their own without Disney's knowledge. I'm sure if this behavior was brought to their attention it would be stopped immediately. DCL is a family place and they work hard to maintain that. Unfortunately, not all CM's are created equally and DCL needs to know which ones they need to weed out.

You are given the option of taking your children down a club if you don't feel secure in having your 13 year old in Common Grounds. We will be doing this next year because we don't think our son is mature enough to be surrounded by older teens.

kasar:

We used the clubs a great deal because our children had such a wonderful time participating in all the activities. We never dumped them in the clubs. We gave them choices of what they wanted to do because it was their vacation too. Because of the clubs we were able to enjoy one on time with a child (we have 3), family time or enjoy time alone as a couple. I know some people are fortunate enough to have family or babysitters available to them to enjoy this time but we don't. A vacation without our children is impossible and will not happen until they are out of the house. It was amazing to enjoy a night out with my husband while feeling no guilt because they were having a wonderful time too. Apparently, they felt the same because they chose overwelmingly to take another cruise next year. We spent a great deal of family time on our vacation and luckily were also able to enjoy couple time as well. I see no problem in that.

 

[CRB#33]

If I knew that my teen was done her activity at 2:00 and she had not shown up by 2:15, I would be the one out looking for her, just like if she were out at home. My children have curfews on vacation and at home. It's up to me to enforce them. It is not up to Disney to tuck our teenage child into bed at night.

When we were on our cruise, I looked over all of the activities and discussed which ones my children would take place in. Hopefully, I will be able to trust my children to take part in the activities that we decide together on. Thank you for the information that I needed for the next cruise.

The things that occured during this Dating Game activity were entirely inappropriate for ANY AGED TEEN, not just 13 year old girls. I would have been offended by some of these things as a grown adult.

As far as the CM's behavior, I am unbelievably disappointed and angry. These are children. Disney must do a better job of policing their employees and making them understand what is acceptable and what isn't and then enforce it.

You really must inform Disney. This, IMO, is a very serious situation. It's just plain wrong.

You have outlined (in graphic detail), many of the concerns I've heard about young teens in the program. You have also outlined may good suggestions. I WONDER if you know that this board is frequented by young teens? Your descriptive comments could be just as out of place on this board as in the Teen club. In the future, maybe you could be a bit more general. We adults could PM and ask you for the sordid details without you seeming like a guy who enjoys shock value (though I'm sure you intended to have your complaint taken seriously), or even talking dirty (which was my initail impression).

Unfortunately the DIS message boards, even though moderated, have become much more lax in what they consider appropriate for a family site. I'm sure this thread has been read and the moderators find everything acceptable. If you have a problem, you should notify a moderator. Good luck.

 

[Mike Bartenhagen]

I have a suggestion. If you want your kids in by 12:00 tell them to be in by 12:00. Wouldn't this make more sence then suggesting Disney change their times based on your prefrences? If you don't want your kids roaming the ship tell your kids that they need to be home after the activity they attended. You could also meet them after the activity to make sure they get to the room. If you think your child is to young to attend the activities from 12:00 to 2:00 tell your child this not Disney. I am 100% certain that there are no required activities in the teen club and I will agree that if some of the activities happened as described they were inappropriate but as parents we are responsible for our children not Disney.

 

[Jobro2]

I just e-mailed DCL to express my concerns about what is going on in Common Grounds and that we are also uncomfortable with the age grouping with the teens. In my opinion, it would make much more sense to group the 13-14 year olds together and then put the older teens in a separate group. They do it with the 8-9 year olds and the 10-12 year olds, why can't they do it with the older children. There is a huge difference in maturity levels in a 13 year old and a 17 year old. Much more so in my opinion, that that of a 9 and 12 year old! I am concerned for my cruise in June 2003 ...my son will turn 13 in May and we cruise the next month. He is excited to be able to attend Common Grounds, but honestly I am not sure if my DH and myself will permit this or have him "step down" a club level to the 10-12 year olds. (My son will be most unhappy with us!)...Please parents, if you also feel concern in this matter I encourage you also to e-mail DCL and voice your opinions. Thanks so much!!

 

[MelissaE1]

Originally posted by kasar
Not just on this board, but lately I've noticed how everyone seems to want to bring their children on vacation with them and then proceed to find every way imaginable to send them off. Personally, we go on vacation to be together as a family. If my husband and I wanted a "child free" vacation, we would make appropriate arrangements for them to stay home. Besides, we have a ball with our kids - I would hate to miss out on those memories. Just one family's opinion......

Hi Kasar,

I am one of those parents who is looking forward to my kids spending some time in the clubs. My DH and I were originally going to cruise alone for our 10th anniversary, but found we didn't want to leave our kids (8 and 4) for nine days. We chose Disney as an alternative... we can still spend "our" time together but our kids will be nearby and entertained. We live far from most of our relatives and don't leave our kids with a babysitter. We are very involved with our kids... soccer coach and team mom, scout leader, regular school volunteers. We take them on a totally kid-driven vacation to WDW every year, which we really enjoy. Of course we will enjoy spending family time on our cruise, but I am hoping they like the clubs (a lot! lol) so DH and I can have some time together. Part of the reason we chose Disney is so our kids can have as much fun as us on their own... definitely better than 9 days with a relative while mom and dad vacation alone (at least I hope so!)

Not all of us are heartless slouches! (grin).

 

[tecdavidt]

As a parent who has raised three teens, now ages 22, 19 and soon to be 19, I can tell all out there, your children won't be doing anything on the ship that they are not already doing at home. You may be shocked when you find out on a cruise ship but this is a true statement. Your teenager may be shocked at other teens when they see what some teens do when away from their parents. My advice, keep the line of communication open. Talk with your teen about what your teen does when you are not around. As the new anti drug slogan states, "parents the anti-drug". This is true.

Do I agree with the original post that this is not acceptable behavior in Common Grounds, yes. DCL is not a babysitting service for the teens and I don't expect that. I do expect DCL cast members not to promote lieing to parents. Sexual discussions do not need to be directed by CM's. I know DCL reads this board, I hope you are paying attention to this thread and address this issue with the Common Grounds CM's. Kathy

 

[peagreenid]

BUT...... On the 11/9/02 cruise, My husband and I were amazed at how many pre-teens we saw running loose. There were several times that we finished up at Rocking Bar D very late. We would go up to the pool deck for Coffee and were surprised to see a group of under 12 kids running around and being pretty obnoxious. My teens were even discussing how many under 12 year age kids they saw running around unsupervised after midnight. And riding the elevators up and down was a big hit.....STILL!

smiles Patty

 

[ennazus]

I am agast at most of what you have to say... but I have one question:

Yet one night, following a dance that lasted until 2am, my daughter and friend returned to the stateroom at 2:30. How can that be possible?

Only you should be able to answer the question "how is that possible?" Are you not the ultimate authority in your daughter's life?? Didn't you go out to look for her ... say at midnight? 12:30? 1:00 AM????

This is what happens when you deligate your parental duties to someone else.

Their job is to make sure the kids are back in their state rooms immediately following the last events.

ummm I don't think this is their job. They are counselors, not escort services.

Just because Disney OFFERED events that lasted until 2:00 AM does not mean that one has to STAY until 2:00 AM!!!! My 8 year old son's club was open until midnight, but it would have been only over my dead body that he was still there at midnight!

Now it seems as if I am only pointing the finger at you... and I am because again, you are the ultimate authority over your daughter.

Might you have had a better time if you had spent some time with your daughter?

ok... I had more than one question. oops!

the 10+ year olds are automatically allowed to sign themselves in and out of the programs meaning parents have no idea where they might be at any given time.

I think parents need to rethink their responsibilties. A parent could tell their child to page them or call the stateroom to notify the parent where the child is going. Or heck... a parent could EVEN go pick up the youth, themselves. *gasp*

*+*+Suzanne, who has just finished reading the Nanny Diaries. You'll either laugh yourself silly or be shocked at how Nanny could be doing such a "horrible" job! I laughed myself silly, but suspect you may be shocked.*+*+*

 

[DawnL]

We kept our DD who had just turned 13 down in the younger group this July and we were vary glad we did. From what we saw of the groups of teens they were way above what our DD and us as parents would have been comfortable with. I really think Disney needs to break the ages of this group down into 2 smaller groups. There is a very large gap between the maturity of 13 and 17 year olds.

 

[toadman]

Originally posted by psimon
My DD13 was on the 11/2 Magic. I didn't hear anything like that from my daughter.


If I had heard of your experiences she never would have gone back. I'll have to ask her about some of the other activities. All in all, she spent far less time in the club than I expected. I guess that was a good thing!

The fact that you didn't hear about it does not mean that it did not happen. I just took my dd to the orthodontist and i asked her about the first cruise and how it comnpared to the recent one. She said the very same rules appplied, the same instructions were given and the same signal was used to warn of approaching adults. I suspect I would never have found this out at all had she not been gabbing with her friend about all the "fun" they had on the recent cruise. Therefore, I assume this is customary behavior by the teen counselors.

 

[toadman]

Originally posted by CRB#33
If I knew that my teen was done her activity at 2:00 and she had not shown up by 2:15, I would be the one out looking for her, just like if she were out at home. My children have curfews on vacation and at home. It's up to me to enforce them. It is not up to Disney to tuck our teenage child into bed at night.

I did do that. I toured the 9th and 10th decks but did not see them. I returned to the stateroom twice between my tours. They were arriving at the stateroom the same time as I was at 2:30. But it's a large ship and the kids could have been anywhere. That's why i suggest that the counselors or staff roam the open decks for a short period following the last event. It's nearly impossible to find a "missing" child onboard ship and the staff knows the "hiding" places that kids frequent far better than I or any other parent would.

 

[toadman]

Originally posted by kasar
tlgoblue: Big Thanks! I have always maintained my position (yes, even on vacation) that the rules don't change with the circumstances. Ultimately, WE are in charge of our kids, nobody else. Young teens still need lots of supervision!

I couldn't agree with you more. And supervision is what I expected when i handed my kids over to the Disney staffers.

 

[toadman]

Originally posted by tlgoblue
Dear Toadman,

You have outlined (in graphic detail), many of the concerns I've heard about young teens in the program. You have also outlined may good suggestions. I WONDER if you know that this board is frequented by young teens? Your descriptive comments could be just as out of place on this board as in the Teen club. In the future, maybe you could be a bit more general. We adults could PM and ask you for the sordid details without you seeming like a guy who enjoys shock value (though I'm sure you intended to have your complaint taken seriously), or even talking dirty (which was my initail impression).

Sorry, I didn't even think of that. I was thinking this was a forum for parents considering a Disney cruise or posting their experiences. It was not my intent to offend but to educate.

 

[psimon]

Originally posted by toadman
The fact that you didn't hear about it does not mean that it did not happen. I just took my dd to the orthodontist and i asked her about the first cruise and how it comnpared to the recent one. She said the very same rules appplied, the same instructions were given and the same signal was used to warn of approaching adults. I suspect I would never have found this out at all had she not been gabbing with her friend about all the "fun" they had on the recent cruise. Therefore, I assume this is customary behavior by the teen counselors.

I gotta tell you.... my DD13 spent far less time in the "club" than I expected. She spent most of the trip with us. She basically said she wasn't interested in what was going on there... and that it wasn't for her (which we were just as happy with). She spent maybe a total of 5 hours in the club for the whole week. Most of that was when we came back from the islands in the early afternoon and there wasn't much to do on ship. Even when she was there, other than the game I mentioned in my previous post, she said there never was a big crowd doing anything organized there. She spent a couple of hours there watching a movie with two or three others. Sounds kind of tame to me. That isn't to imply your experiences didn't happen.... just hers were different.

... and yes, I did ask about what was going on in the club, and her usual comment was it was boring and that's why she didn't stay!

Maybe the Wonder is a little different the Magic. Maybe the counselors feel they need to "spice it up" on the short cruise. Can't say for sure. That's not an excuse, just a hypothesis.

 

[quidam]

Very well said ennazus!

Parents certainly don't have to (and shouldn't!) delegate their parental duties to someone else, not even to Disney's crew members!

 

[ducklite]

Since when is it the counselors job to supervise the teens after they leave common grounds or to keep them from smoking on the ship? Have you heard about PARENTAL responsibility?? There is no smoking in Common Grounds, but there are no rules that prohibit smoking by minors in the smoking acceptable areas on board. It isn't the job of the counselors to "rat out" smokers, for all they know the parents know that their kid smokes and either condone it or feel that there are bigger battles to fight. As far as the smoking goes, it's none of your business, so butt out. (No pun intended)

Personally had my child been 13, I wouldn't have let them stay out until 2:00am regardless! I do agree, they should have a seperate group for 13 and 14 year olds, most 13 year olds are not mature as, nor do they share the same interests as a 16 or 17 year old. And a lot of 13 year olds are not mature enough to handle themselves appropriately in a minimally supervised setting, sounds like your daughter might have been one of those based on the fact that she couldnt' obey curfew.

We were on the Magic last summer, when my son was 16. I set my alarm each night when I went to bed before him so I knew that he was back in the cabin by curfew, which varied from night to night based on scheduled activities and shore excursions. I took an active role in parental responsibility. If you think 2:00am is too late for your child, give them a curfew. Don't impose your values on all the other teens on board.

You didn't "hand your kids over" as they can come and go as they please in and out of CG. If they wre uncomfortable, they should have left and told you so immediately so you address your concerns. It sounds to me like first off, your child probably knows a lot of things and is doing a lot of things that you aren't aware of. If they were concerned or offended, they would have said something to you, rather than your finding out by eavesdropping on their conversation. If this isn't the case, then perhaps your child should have been stepped down to the 10-12 year old group which might have been more to their maturity level. Just because a child reaches 13, doesn't mean they have the maturity level of a "teen".

Now, IF what your are describing did actually happen, then yes, it was inappropriate. However I wonder how much of it was quite embellished on...

Anne

 

[4nana]

As a DGP I appreciate and thank you for giving us the heads up
on the club activities in question. I have expressed concerns here before concerning maturity level of 13- 17 yo in same club.
I must say I am shocked and saddened by what I have read. I would be a fool to think things of this nature do not go on to some extent w/friends, in school, some homes, parties, etc. But on a Disney cruise where we have entrusted our youth to Disney CM's, who should be setting an example, is unbelievable and not acceptable to me. I am forwarding this thread to:
dcl.guest.communications@disneycruise.com.
I will be interested in their comments.

 

[toadman]

Originally posted by quidam
Very well said ennazus!

Parents certainly don't have to (and shouldn't!) delegate their parental duties to someone else, not even to Disney's crew members!

However, we are not present in the Common Grounds when these events are ocurring. Just as i was not present when I sent her on the party boat trip in port. When I, the parent, canot be present, the Disney staff *is* the responsible adult.

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by toadman
However, we are not present in the Common Grounds when these events are ocurring. Just as i was not present when I sent her on the party boat trip in port. When I, the parent, canot be present, the Disney staff *is* the responsible adult.

And if your child isn't mature enough to leave that situation when she obviously should have known you wouldn't approve, she is too immature to have been there to begin with.

Anne