Disney, Why...? The TDO Footprint Constraint

[vandy]

Thank you to everyone for giving us a thoughtful and insightful thread in where the OP and others gave us facts and speculation based on known facts and not off of pure emotion or wishful thinking. One of the nicest reads for me in a while.

 

[Buttrcp16]

Loved your analysis! Very insightful, and I have a feeling it's pretty darn accurate.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Excellent analysis, C! That was very well thought out and explained. That is why we keep you around. For every one of "me" there is one of "you". You help increase the Bell curve for those of us who drag it down into the depths of Duff beer and Fear Factor.

If this thread had been posted on that "other section" then it would be one of the top threads with logical debate abound. It's a shame that you have to respectfully post this well-written thought in a section of the forum that is more concerned about the fact that they "might" be filming another film for Soarin'. At least you didn't post it on the Community section where there is sure to be a post about "common bathroom items that remind you of Dwarfs".

I wish more people could read your post.

But hey....there is always this (NOT in WS for those that don't know)...

Photo by HatetoFly @ Orlando United.
http://www.orlandounited.com/forums/showthread.php/8546-Wizarding-World-Diagon-Alley-Discussion-Part-2?p=373478#post373478

 

[jon18uk]

Great analysis.

It makes perfect sense now but I had never even thought of the possibility that there may not even be enough people available to work to enable Disney to open a 5th gate. I do see even more methods of utilising staff better coming. For example the trial on being able to go straight to your resort room after completing online check-in and having a magic band. This would free up more staff to assist with other queries.

 

[clsteve]

Great analysis.

It makes perfect sense now but I had never even thought of the possibility that there may not even be enough people available to work to enable Disney to open a 5th gate. I do see even more methods of utilising staff better coming. For example the trial on being able to go straight to your resort room after completing online check-in and having a magic band. This would free up more staff to assist with other queries.

I think you've hit on a good point - MB's as a staff optimization tool for Disney. I'm sure it ranked very high in their justification process and something they can continue to refine as more data is collected.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Labor is and has been one of the biggest concerns since the 90's expansions....

If its not the #1 thing guarding against the rampant expansion/construction that is always casually proposed on this and other geekdom boards... Then it's at least 1A.

20 years ago they had this destination disney system concept that they put alot of R&D into...early in the ving card system and even before the electronic tickets went into effect...

One of the concepts was the "employeeless" resort process...where hypothetically you would get these snazzy cards in the mail... And then Walk through a large scanner/ computer transponder when you got to the hotel...think of the customs house at Caribbean as being the ideal spot...and poof...your cars were active and you were free to go to room or park without a crew of thousands of employees to stem the hectic flow and cut out what at the time was a 30-45 minute process...

That was just one idea and the prototype never made it off the ground as often the case...

But look at the place now...the basic principle is largely in place.

You'll see reductions in staff across the board...I'm guessing fairly quickly... Once the bands get fortified and the system shakes out.
Why have 60,000 nametags standing in obselete locations doing less? At a higher rate of pay (not so much but still) and a much higher benefit and support staff cost?

People will be livid at the idea that the great benevolent disney would slash "cast" for mere money...but they will and have too...there just is no labor scenario where an increase in raw numbers works for any party involved...

Now...the small optimist in me hopes that means they expand and use "reductions" to staff new offerings..to make new revenues
That's a solid business plan and works for everyone.

 

[Ismo]

Very interesting read, thanks!

 

[OtherScott]

Great analysis.

It makes perfect sense now but I had never even thought of the possibility that there may not even be enough people available to work to enable Disney to open a 5th gate. I do see even more methods of utilising staff better coming. For example the trial on being able to go straight to your resort room after completing online check-in and having a magic band. This would free up more staff to assist with other queries.

Labor availability and cost are certainly drivers, especially in this unique scenario.

But I would think that a 5th gate leading to cannibalization of the existing 4 is a major concern, too. WDW parks don't just compete with attractions of other companies, they compete with each other. Sure, every dollar in belongs to them, but so does every expense.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Labor availability and cost are certainly drivers, especially in this unique scenario.

But I would think that a 5th gate leading to cannibalization of the existing 4 is a major concern, too. WDW parks don't just compete with attractions of other companies, they compete with each other. Sure, every dollar in belongs to them, but so does every expense.

It is and that is another issue that currently would prohibit any construction of a new full park

 

[OtherScott]

If this thread had been posted on that "other section" then it would be...

bleeding to death in a ditch, as non sequiturs continued to pile on top until cyrano decided to kill it...

 

[seascapemvy]

Labor is and has been one of the biggest concerns since the 90's expansions....

If its not the #1 thing guarding against the rampant expansion/construction that is always casually proposed on this and other geekdom boards... Then it's at least 1A.

20 years ago they had this destination disney system concept that they put alot of R&D into...early in the ving card system and even before the electronic tickets went into effect...

One of the concepts was the "employeeless" resort process...where hypothetically you would get these snazzy cards in the mail... And then Walk through a large scanner/ computer transponder when you got to the hotel...think of the customs house at Caribbean as being the ideal spot...and poof...your cars were active and you were free to go to room or park without a crew of thousands of employees to stem the hectic flow and cut out what at the time was a 30-45 minute process...

That was just one idea and the prototype never made it off the ground as often the case...

But look at the place now...the basic principle is largely in place.

You'll see reductions in staff across the board...I'm guessing fairly quickly... Once the bands get fortified and the system shakes out.
Why have 60,000 nametags standing in obselete locations doing less? At a higher rate of pay (not so much but still) and a much higher benefit and support staff cost?

People will be livid at the idea that the great benevolent disney would slash "cast" for mere money...but they will and have too...there just is no labor scenario where an increase in raw numbers works for any party involved...

Now...the small optimist in me hopes that means they expand and use "reductions" to staff new offerings..to make new revenues
That's a solid business plan and works for everyone.

I heard about the new remote check in that is being tested. If Disney can save 10 minutes of staff time for every check in using this method that can free up 147 people for other jobs. Looking at what is going on at restaurants around the county using technology and even being experimented at BOG restaurant ordering electronically can and will reduce staffing requirements by large numbers. There are many other uses of technology which can free up cast members to staff a 5th gate. It would be my hope that Disney would use this technology not to lay off cast members but to reassign them to other jobs. Disney should easily be able with technology have the staff for a 5th gate without need to have more cast members and in fact make each cast members job easier. I also hope that a portion of these cost savings would go for pay increases for the wonderful cast members who have made my vacations very enjoyable. It is the extra service cast members give that make disney my favorite vacation location.

 

[clsteve]

Labor is and has been one of the biggest concerns since the 90's expansions....

If its not the #1 thing guarding against the rampant expansion/construction that is always casually proposed on this and other geekdom boards... Then it's at least 1A.

20 years ago they had this destination disney system concept that they put alot of R&D into...early in the ving card system and even before the electronic tickets went into effect...

One of the concepts was the "employeeless" resort process...where hypothetically you would get these snazzy cards in the mail... And then Walk through a large scanner/ computer transponder when you got to the hotel...think of the customs house at Caribbean as being the ideal spot...and poof...your cars were active and you were free to go to room or park without a crew of thousands of employees to stem the hectic flow and cut out what at the time was a 30-45 minute process...

That was just one idea and the prototype never made it off the ground as often the case...

But look at the place now...the basic principle is largely in place.

You'll see reductions in staff across the board...I'm guessing fairly quickly... Once the bands get fortified and the system shakes out.
Why have 60,000 nametags standing in obselete locations doing less? At a higher rate of pay (not so much but still) and a much higher benefit and support staff cost?

People will be livid at the idea that the great benevolent disney would slash "cast" for mere money...but they will and have too...there just is no labor scenario where an increase in raw numbers works for any party involved...

Now...the small optimist in me hopes that means they expand and use "reductions" to staff new offerings..to make new revenues
That's a solid business plan and works for everyone.

Very true.

There's nothing an Executive Team can do to make a Corporate Board happier than by reducing employee and benefits costs and future Pension Plan liabilities. It's a heartless fact to many, but a fact nonetheless....

If you look at the past several years 10K's and their ongoing proactive work around the Pension Plan liabilities (especially take note of the changes in underfunded amounts), you can see it as an overall Corporate initiative.

I share your optimism and see UOR and its changes as potentially a very positive catalyst for keeping Disney from (hopefully) becoming too comfortable with its quality, innovation, and breadth of offerings.

 

[OtherScott]

Labor is and has been one of the biggest concerns since the 90's expansions....

If its not the #1 thing guarding against the rampant expansion/construction that is always casually proposed on this and other geekdom boards... Then it's at least 1A.

20 years ago they had this destination disney system concept that they put alot of R&D into...early in the ving card system and even before the electronic tickets went into effect...

One of the concepts was the "employeeless" resort process...where hypothetically you would get these snazzy cards in the mail... And then Walk through a large scanner/ computer transponder when you got to the hotel...think of the customs house at Caribbean as being the ideal spot...and poof...your cars were active and you were free to go to room or park without a crew of thousands of employees to stem the hectic flow and cut out what at the time was a 30-45 minute process...

That was just one idea and the prototype never made it off the ground as often the case...

But look at the place now...the basic principle is largely in place.

You'll see reductions in staff across the board...I'm guessing fairly quickly... Once the bands get fortified and the system shakes out.
Why have 60,000 nametags standing in obselete locations doing less? At a higher rate of pay (not so much but still) and a much higher benefit and support staff cost?

People will be livid at the idea that the great benevolent disney would slash "cast" for mere money...but they will and have too...there just is no labor scenario where an increase in raw numbers works for any party involved...

Now...the small optimist in me hopes that means they expand and use "reductions" to staff new offerings..to make new revenues
That's a solid business plan and works for everyone.

Imagine a scenario where check-in is virtual. Passengers arriving at MCO have the option to board a bus for a park (where they can start swiping their MBs in front of point-of-purchase devices) instead of a resort, while their luggage goes to their resort by truck.

Disney doesn't have to staff to check these guests in physically. They also don't have to transport guests to the resort just for check-in, and then transport them to a park.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Um... so I'm the only one stuck on what TDO means?

It's not on this list:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1660743

And the Google... it does nothing.

Edit: Team Disney Orlando. Never mind.

 

[clsteve]

Imagine a scenario where check-in is virtual. Passengers arriving at MCO have the option to board a bus for a park (where they can start swiping their MBs in front of point-of-purchase devices) instead of a resort, while their luggage goes to their resort by truck.

Disney doesn't have to staff to check these guests in physically. They also don't have to transport guests to the resort just for check-in, and then transport them to a park.

I doubt I'm going out on a limb by saying I bet MM+ and its potential to shift staff priorities within TDO is a rather large topic of conversation in the CM break rooms and over beers after work....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

bleeding to death in a ditch, as non sequiturs continued to pile on top until cyrano decided to kill it...

Not enough dust, huh?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Um... so I'm the only one stuck on what TDO means?

It's not on this list:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1660743

And the Google... it does nothing.

Edit: Team Disney Orlando. Never mind.

I believe it's being used as "the Disney organziation" here...

The most common acronym for that is TWDC

"The Walt Disney company"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I doubt I'm going out on a limb by saying I bet MM+ and its potential to shift staff priorities within TDO is a rather large topic of conversation in the CM break rooms and over beers after work....

Cast
Members can only afford the beers at the Big bamboo...
And I think that closed

 

[OtherScott]

I doubt I'm going out on a limb by saying I bet MM+ and its potential to shift staff priorities within TDO is a rather large topic of conversation in the CM break rooms and over beers after work....

I've often wondered why the parks don't use more vending machines in lieu of manned carts for drinks, especially with CC capability. I know there is upsell potential on every interpersonal transaction, but other factors seem to cut against that - location, convenience, employee cost, etc.

I personally drink enough Diet Coke to justify at least one machine.

 

[jon18uk]

I've often wondered why the parks don't use more vending machines in lieu of manned carts for drinks, especially with CC capability. I know there is upsell potential on every interpersonal transaction, but other factors seem to cut against that - location, convenience, employee cost, etc.

UK theme parks used to have a lot of vending machines, particularly in queue lines but have replaced them with staffed kiosks. I think there is often a general feeling of not trusting the machine and what happens if it takes money and doesn't vend. I have noticed that a lot more people purchase from a staffed kiosk than they would at a machine. Also if the kisosk has a full till then credit cards can be accepted and annual pass discount given, I personally was a lot more likely to purchase when I get discount!

But I think Disney could provide some machines, particularly if a magic band could be used for payment (or even snack credit redemption) in some areas but they would have to get the technology and theming spot on.