Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[Dean]

Dean, thank you for recognizing that I am entitled to my opinion. What strikes me as interesting is the next sentence in your response to me. Evidently you feel that there is a "significant amount of inappropriate and ill informed whining about this and similar subjects". Wow! That is certainly what made me use the words condescending, ridicule and criticism in my post. It is hard to feel welcome on a thread where there might be information you need, or questions answered, when this is the opinion on one of the primary posters who answers most of the questions.

Hi Maria! I remember those posts! Thanks

Got to call it the way I see it. I think if you read my posts they speak either to the actions or to generalizations and not as a direct attack to any one person. I said what I meant and meant what I said because it's true. What do you disagree with that I've posted, my positions are very simple and include.

• It was a known risk
• Banking on S-F and cutting it close was a large risk
• it was clearly spelled out in the legalities that this change could happen
• People shouldn't buy something they don't truly understand
• anyone either knew or should have known it could happen
• it's been discussed here over the years
• DVC has the right to do make the change and in many case, the legal obligation to do so.
• It's reasonable to be upset at your bad luck but there's no reason to be upset with DVC for making the change.
• The guide said, finances or I assumed have no real basis in the discussion of the appropriateness of change.

As I've noted, this affects me as much or more from a numbers standpoint than any of those who are whining. To me it's really very simple. Do they have the right to make the change, if so, is there a need. It truly is that simple. NONE of the other stuff including personal situations really matters as to this decision. IMO, and as I've noted previously, they would have been better off giving some basic numbers as support but I'm convinced that everyone would have argued with their numbers as much of more than they have anyway. Also, I've reminded everyone at least twice that you have a right to go look at the books in this regard including a possible study on this subject, no one has indicated any interest that I recall.

 

[LVSWL]

Dean,
You ask me what I disagree with that you have posted.
You even provided me with a list of some of your positions.
Each of those is a valid point, if in a general discussion about
reallocation. But to me it is much more personal when another
person's post is quoted and some of the points are made line by
line. I guess when you couple that with the the "tone" in the word
whining it makes me uncomfortable. I know that I certainly would
not feel like I could ask a question or have an opinion that is not
favorable about this subject. I just think that it is unfortunate.
Anyway, enjoy..off to watch the hockey game. That's much more fun.

I guess what I'm saying is..they are my points and I'll whine if I want to

 

[MiaSRN62]

6 points!!! A NIGHT You'd need a 30 point add on just for a Sunday thru Thursday stay.

Yup Bob ..... it would have just been nice to vent a little, but some people come at you and say things like "it's your fault for not reading more" or "you should have expected it" or "it's your choice to vacation in the summer and pay more points" etc etc. I think I heard it all....just no room for showing disappointment or any type of emotions on this thread without getting a slap on the hand ....and only a few posts of understanding/support overall. I'm quite certain there is a very large percentage who are afraid to post on this thread. I've gotten PM's about it. I've moved on.....

Maria

 

[toocherie]

Yup Bob ..... it would have just been nice to vent a little, but some people come at you and say things like "it's your fault for not reading more" or "you should have expected it" or "it's your choice to vacation in the summer and pay more points" etc etc. I think I heard it all....just no room for showing disappointment or any type of emotions on this thread without getting a slap on the hand ....and only a few posts of understanding/support overall. I'm quite certain there is a very large percentage who are afraid to post on this thread. I've gotten PM's about it. I've moved on.....

Maria

Maria: I haven't posted on this thread for quite a while but saw it come up. My only suggestion if someone doesn't want an opinion on whether they have a right to be upset or not is to start a separate thread and entitle it "VENT" at the beginning so it is clear that you just need an outlet to talk about what is upsetting you. When you post on what is supposed to be a "factual" thread--like this one, I think someone who is showing more emotion than normal opens themselves up for someone to come in and logically show they are wrong--and then I think the person who just wanted an outlet for their anger just gets even more so.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Maria: I haven't posted on this thread for quite a while but saw it come up. My only suggestion if someone doesn't want an opinion on whether they have a right to be upset or not is to start a separate thread and entitle it "VENT" at the beginning so it is clear that you just need an outlet to talk about what is upsetting you. When you post on what is supposed to be a "factual" thread--like this one, I think someone who is showing more emotion than normal opens themselves up for someone to come in and logically show they are wrong--and then I think the person who just wanted an outlet for their anger just gets even more so.

A Mars vs. Venus sort of thing!

 

[Dean]

Dean,
You ask me what I disagree with that you have posted.
You even provided me with a list of some of your positions.
Each of those is a valid point, if in a general discussion about
reallocation. But to me it is much more personal when another
person's post is quoted and some of the points are made line by
line. I guess when you couple that with the the "tone" in the word
whining it makes me uncomfortable. I know that I certainly would
not feel like I could ask a question or have an opinion that is not
favorable about this subject. I just think that it is unfortunate.
Anyway, enjoy..off to watch the hockey game. That's much more fun.

I guess what I'm saying is..they are my points and I'll whine if I want to

Such is life. It's not necessary to agree to discuss the issues else this and similar places would be very boring. You can certainly whine more if you like.

Yup Bob ..... it would have just been nice to vent a little, but some people come at you and say things like "it's your fault for not reading more" or "you should have expected it" or "it's your choice to vacation in the summer and pay more points" etc etc. I think I heard it all....just no room for showing disappointment or any type of emotions on this thread without getting a slap on the hand ....and only a few posts of understanding/support overall. I'm quite certain there is a very large percentage who are afraid to post on this thread. I've gotten PM's about it. I've moved on.....

Maria

Maria, no one is stopping you from posting but it is unrealistic to expect to post without others having an opinion about what you post. A healthy give and take would have been welcomed. The problem is that for many it wasn't truly venting but attacking DVC for being inappropriate, much different and factually WRONG in this instance, IMO. If you review you'll see at least a couple of instances where I state that I understand why people might be upset at their bad luck and that is OK but many took it too far and accused DVC of all manner of bad things that were simply not accurate.

Maria: I haven't posted on this thread for quite a while but saw it come up. My only suggestion if someone doesn't want an opinion on whether they have a right to be upset or not is to start a separate thread and entitle it "VENT" at the beginning so it is clear that you just need an outlet to talk about what is upsetting you. When you post on what is supposed to be a "factual" thread--like this one, I think someone who is showing more emotion than normal opens themselves up for someone to come in and logically show they are wrong--and then I think the person who just wanted an outlet for their anger just gets even more so.

Exactly. It seems some feel attacked simply because many didn't agree with them.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Toocherie : I think someone who is showing more emotion than normal opens themselves up for someone to come in and logically show they are wrong--and then I think the person who just wanted an outlet for their anger just gets even more so.

Toocherie....I definitely had fact mixed in with emotion. So sorry you didn't see that. Go back and read my posts (if you feel like it) all the way back on page 50-55 I think is when I started. Emotions came up more when I felt I was getting snarky comments. I was def speaking facts though.......I don't feel I showed "more emotion than normal" in my beginning posts. I will admit, getting hit with snarky after patronizing posts for days, the emotions do surface and it's why I left the discussion. There are several people who PM'd me and saw it as well. So if you didn't, then that is your perspective.

Dean : Maria, no one is stopping you from posting but it is unrealistic to expect to post without others having an opinion about what you post. A healthy give and take would have been welcomed. The problem is that for many it wasn't truly venting but attacking DVC for being inappropriate, much different and factually WRONG in this instance, IMO. If you review you'll see at least a couple of instances where I state that I understand why people might be upset at their bad luck and that is OK but many took it too far and accused DVC of all manner of bad things that were simply not accurate.

I absolutely realize noone is stopping me from posting Dean. I certainly don't feel I'm being unrealistic either. I had to get away from this thread for my own emotional well-being pretty much. I recognized the snide comments I was getting and how it was, in turn, affecting my posts and how I felt every time I went to read a new update. Most certainly didn't perceive *some* of the responses as "healthy give and take". I can take constructive criticism, but not in the manner that *some* of it was dished out.
I never minded the calm/non condescending/non criticizing responses I received---even if they differed from mine. And for the record Dean....I never felt you were one of the posters that was snarky or patronizing to me personally. So I hope you're not thinking that. I agree with the healthy give and take----but that wasn't what I experienced a good amount of the time. I'm not a robot. If someone replies to me with a snide remark, yes....some emotion is going to come out. But my beginning posts when I first entered this thread were just commentary from me and factual from MY personal experiences with DVC/guides etc.


Maria

 

[MiaSRN62]

It seems some feel attacked simply because many didn't agree with them.

Oh no, sorry Dean....couldn't be further from the truth with me. If that is your perspective and Toocherie...so be it. But it is not how I feel and you may never understand that. There were other things that got me upset. I can take criticism and disagreement. I've been on the DIS for many years. It's the snide and condensending comments from a few that get me. There is a right and a wrong way to disagree with someone.............but I guess some don't see that. I see it's time to leave again.....things will never change......


Maria

 

[LVSWL]

I'm sure for some of the people its disappointing. It doesn't affect me as much, since I live in Chicago and when we go we are usually there for 7 days or more... so the 7 day trips won't change much for us.

Even if this wasn't the case, the really wouldn't bother me... I went in knowing it was a real possibility this could happen, as it is in the paperwork and was explained by our guide. it doesn't sound like it happens much, so that is one bit of good news.

As for some peoples answers... yes they could be nicer... but then again, reading essentially the same thread written by different people can be enough to make people snap... and some posters on both sides can be very whiny about stuff, something I am sure you will concede.

I don't get the last part of this I guess. In an ongoing thread of this size, I don't think that you can expect the average poster to come in and read through every post on every page to see if their particular question/situation has been addressed so that the "regulars" on the thread will not perceive them as "whiners" when they post a question/concern/complaint about the subject.

 

[LVSWL]

Maria: I haven't posted on this thread for quite a while but saw it come up. My only suggestion if someone doesn't want an opinion on whether they have a right to be upset or not is to start a separate thread and entitle it "VENT" at the beginning so it is clear that you just need an outlet to talk about what is upsetting you. When you post on what is supposed to be a "factual" thread--like this one, I think someone who is showing more emotion than normal opens themselves up for someone to come in and logically show they are wrong--and then I think the person who just wanted an outlet for their anger just gets even more so.

I am unclear about when this thread became a "factual thread". It began as a post by a member letting us know what they found on the internet, and posters immediately began to post how they felt about the changes and how those changes might impact them personally. I don't think this is like posting on the Grand Floridian FAQ and getting upset about why you can't get a good rate for a suite anymore put x # of people in a room.

 

[Dean]

I absolutely realize noone is stopping me from posting Dean. I certainly don't feel I'm being unrealistic either. I had to get away from this thread for my own emotional well-being pretty much. I recognized the snide comments I was getting and how it was, in turn, affecting my posts and how I felt every time I went to read a new update. Most certainly didn't perceive *some* of the responses as "healthy give and take". I can take constructive criticism, but not in the manner that *some* of it was dished out.
I never minded the calm/non condescending/non criticizing responses I received---even if they differed from mine. And for the record Dean....I never felt you were one of the posters that was snarky or patronizing to me personally. So I hope you're not thinking that. I agree with the healthy give and take----but that wasn't what I experienced a good amount of the time. I'm not a robot. If someone replies to me with a snide remark, yes....some emotion is going to come out. But my beginning posts when I first entered this thread were just commentary from me and factual from MY personal experiences with DVC/guides etc.


Maria

Thank you, it is always my goal to deal with the issue and not the person. Sometimes it still comes across more negative than I'd like when that person is directly involved in the issue in question.

Oh no, sorry Dean....couldn't be further from the truth with me. If that is your perspective and Toocherie...so be it. But it is not how I feel and you may never understand that. There were other things that got me upset. I can take criticism and disagreement. I've been on the DIS for many years. It's the snide and condensending comments from a few that get me. There is a right and a wrong way to disagree with someone.............but I guess some don't see that. I see it's time to leave again.....things will never change......


Maria

See another case of a general comment that may come across in a way not intended.

I don't get the last part of this I guess. In an ongoing thread of this size, I don't think that you can expect the average poster to come in and read through every post on every page to see if their particular question/situation has been addressed so that the "regulars" on the thread will not perceive them as "whiners" when they post a question/concern/complaint about the subject.

I certainly understand not reading such a long thread when you come in late. However, I think if you post in such a thread the poster takes a certain amount of responsibility for the info they missed. They also lose perspective for the entire package and any disclaimers or items they may see as positives that a given poster may have provided. It truly is a proceed at your own risk situation IMO.

I am unclear about when this thread became a "factual thread". It began as a post by a member letting us know what they found on the internet, and posters immediately began to post how they felt about the changes and how those changes might impact them personally. I don't think this is like posting on the Grand Floridian FAQ and getting upset about why you can't get a good rate for a suite anymore put x # of people in a room.

Likely part of the disconnect. For many of us this is simply a factual discussion, one that emotion has no real bearing on. For others, emotion is the substance of their judgement in this area, along with assumptions not based in facts.

 

[LVSWL]

I certainly understand not reading such a long thread when you come in late. However, I think if you post in such a thread the poster takes a certain amount of responsibility for the info they missed. They also lose perspective for the entire package and any disclaimers or items they may see as positives that a given poster may have provided. It truly is a proceed at your own risk situation IMO.

GEEZ! Maybe that last sentence should be in the title of the thread.
Then posters will know what they are getting themselves into

 

[paige2755]

Our family just became DVC members in 2007. We only bought in at 160 pts. The2009 points schedule would allow us to basically have a five night (sun-thurs) stay during the non peak times in a two bedroom. We no longer be able to enjoy a five night vacation with the new changes. This is very disappointing as this is pretty much the only vacation we take each year.

 

[CarolMN]

Our family just became DVC members in 2007. We only bought in at 160 pts. The2009 points schedule would allow us to basically have a five night (sun-thurs) stay during the non peak times in a two bedroom. We no longer be able to enjoy a five night vacation with the new changes. This is very disappointing as this is pretty much the only vacation we take each year.

Yes, it is disappointing, but it probably isn't as bad as you might think.

What is your home resort? It must be VWL or BCV.

For 160 points:

1. You can still get a 2 bedroom for 5 nights during either Adventure or Choice season at SSR.

2. You can get a 2 bedroom at OKW for 5 nights during Adventure, Choice or Dream season.

3. If you are willing to take a value 2 bedroom, you can stay 5 nights in a 2 bedroom at AKV during all seasons except Premier (which is only the weeks surrounding Christmas and Easter). You can stay 5 nights in a standard view 2 bedroom at AKV for Adventure, Choice or Dream season.

4. If you own at BWV and are willing to stay in a standard view 2 bedroom, you can get 5 nights in either Adventure or Choice season. (It's hard to book SV for BWV during Adventure & Choice if you don't own there)


If you own at BCV or VWL, it is absolutely true that you can't get 5 nights for 160 points in Choice season anymore. HOWEVER, you could still go every year during CHOICE season for 5 nights in a 2 bedroom if you borrowed 15 points each year. It would be at least 10 years before you would have to skip a trip. It would be longer if you travel during Adventure season. Who knows what might happen in the next 10 years? Maybe you won't want to take the trip every year or maybe you will even get tired of Disney!

I know it is disappointing when a change doesn't work out in your favor. Just wanted to point out that this change may not be so awful after all. It certainly isn't going to require you to take a shorter vacation than your current pattern (for at least the next 10 years, anyway) unless you refuse to stay anywhere but your home resort and refuse to borrow.

HTH.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Yes, it is disappointing, but it probably isn't as bad as you might think.

What is your home resort? It must be VWL or BCV.

For 160 points:

1. You can still get a 2 bedroom for 5 nights during either Adventure or Choice season at SSR.

2. You can get a 2 bedroom at OKW for 5 nights during Adventure, Choice or Dream season.

3. If you are willing to take a value 2 bedroom, you can stay 5 nights in a 2 bedroom at AKV during all seasons except Premier (which is only the weeks surrounding Christmas and Easter). You can stay 5 nights in a standard view 2 bedroom at AKV for Adventure, Choice or Dream season.

4. If you own at BWV and are willing to stay in a standard view 2 bedroom, you can get 5 nights in either Adventure or Choice season. (It's hard to book SV for BWV during Adventure & Choice if you don't own there)


If you own at BCV or VWL, it is absolutely true that you can't get 5 nights for 160 points in Choice season anymore. HOWEVER, you could still go every year during CHOICE season for 5 nights in a 2 bedroom if you borrowed 15 points each year. It would be at least 10 years before you would have to skip a trip. It would be longer if you travel during Adventure season. Who knows what might happen in the next 10 years? Maybe you won't want to take the trip every year or maybe you will even get tired of Disney!

I know it is disappointing when a change doesn't work out in your favor. Just wanted to point out that this change may not be so awful after all. It certainly isn't going to require you to take a shorter vacation than your current pattern (for at least the next 10 years, anyway) unless you refuse to stay anywhere but your home resort and refuse to borrow.

HTH.

Good call with the borrowing 15 points a year!

The other thing is when or if you ever have the money, you could add on 25 points to cover. Yeah, I know it sucks to have to do that, but it could be an option down the road.

Just be careful... adding on is like a drug... you have to get your fix. I REALLY want to add on some now... buy a 75 BLT contract or the like. Enough to guarentee BLT 1 BR every 3 years in the times I like to go.

 

[tjkraz]

Good call with the borrowing 15 points a year!

Yeah, that's the way to go for most people.

If you fall 15 points short and own at least 150, it will take 10 years before borrowing really catches up with you. Example:

Year One: Use all current plus borrow 15
Year Two: Use remaining current plus borrow 30
Year Three: Use remaining current plus borrow 45
...and so on.

It won't be until after Year Ten that all of the follow year's points are borrowed, forcing a year to be skipped.

Another alternative would be to shorten annual trips by a day every 2-3 years to catch-up.

This won't work for everyone...particularly those who bought small contracts with the intention of banking AND borrowing to use 3 years' worth of points for a single trip. But Carol's approach is a valid coping mechanism for the vast majority of members.

 

[photobob]

Our family just became DVC members in 2007. We only bought in at 160 pts. The2009 points schedule would allow us to basically have a five night (sun-thurs) stay during the non peak times in a two bedroom. We no longer be able to enjoy a five night vacation with the new changes. This is very disappointing as this is pretty much the only vacation we take each year.

This will probably be the last year we stay in a 2 bedroom. You have a few options; borrowing like some others have suggested, go less days, stay at a resort where points cost are less, use smaller accommodations or add-on. We will probably use a combination of all of these with the exception of add-on for the foreseeable future!

 

[Pa@okw95]

Like I said in another post, I had not been on this site since October, and I never received notice from DVC about this change in the point chart. At any rate for me this is a big change because I am basically a snow bird that comes down in January and stays in a one bedroom at OKW for 80 points, Sun-Thur, then I go off site, and back on again Sunday for another 80 points, so on and so forth. This is now going to cost me 95 each Sun-Thur, so I will now have to think of away to do this. Normally I spend 240 points to do this 3 times, it will not cost me 285 and since I only have 270 point contract, this is a problem for me now. Well we all have different stories, mine is just one. Needless to say I don't like the change.

 

[tjkraz]

Normally I spend 240 points to do this 3 times, it will not cost me 285 and since I only have 270 point contract, this is a problem for me now.

If you are only coming up 15 points short per year, taking advantage of the borrowing privileges you could go 18 years without having to alter your normal routine. For example:

2010: Use 270 current year points and borrow 15 from '11
2011: Use remaining 255 current points and borrow 30 from '12
2012: Use remaining 240 points and borrow 45 from '13
...and so on.

It will take 18 years until you are fully borrowed a year in advance.

Or since you are using your points for 3 trips per year, you could skip one trip every 6 years.

Or with weekends now being cheaper, you could investigate taking 2 longer trips per year instead of 3 shorter ones. Since weekends are still more expensive, there's no question you would have fewer total vacation days. But you could reduce your transportation and other costs by 1/3.

I was always a Sun - Thurs guy myself but this change has undeniably prompted me to look into different ways of using our points. It appears too many of us were sticking to the Sun - Thurs block and DVC had to do something to expand the capacity of that timeframe.

 

[bobbiwoz]

As I mentioned before, I do OK with the change because we often have booked weekends. However, we were just on the 3 night DCL cruise and I find it underhanded at least that DVC only hands out charts for '08 and '09 where applicable (older resorts), and only '09 for BLT.

People will be in for a shock, and I think that's just wrong.

Bobbi