Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[KAT4DISNEY]

The limit on not making more than a 20% change in the point total for any particular night prohibited DVC from switching certain rooms at certain resorts from one Season to the another.

For example, a Studio in Adventure Season in OKW on weekdays was 8 points; the most it could change (and not violate the 20% limit) was by 1 point, which it did in 2010, to 9 points. If DVC does further weekday/weekend rebalancing for 2011, the Adventure Season OKW weekday studio could go all the way to 10 points per night.

If they did more changes in 2011, then in 2012, DVC might be able to move early Dec into Dream Season (i.e, a weekday Studio at 12 points) and move, say, late Aug into Adventure Season (i.e., a weekday studio at 10 points). If they are going that route, I would also expect to see Oct move to Dream Season and May move to Choice Season.

I don't have a crystal ball, but DVC has taken the genie out of the bottle with this change in the points chart and I would not be surprised by more changes. -- Suzanne

To use your example - they could have shifted the weeks b/c a studio at OKW was 8 pts in both seasons (and in my quick perusal of point charts this equality in the lower cost units is true at most resorts). They still would have been able to make both the shift in seasons and in the point charts. The easiest way to do this would be to move a whole week into one season and another back into the other just as they do in shifting the seasons around holidays.

I find the 20% to be pretty ambiguous in exactly how it can be applied and think that DVC could work around that when it comes to seasons.

I agree that I don't think this is the end and think changes may be much more the norm rather than the exception.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

When we did our tour, we asked our guide for a copy of the contract to preview. He was astonished and said no one had ever done this before.
When do people typically get their contract? If it is not seen until you are back home and under deposit/contract, you are emotionally invested and it's a little late to read the fine print.

When we bought resales, two separate company's DID NOT furnish the POS. Ihad to specifically request it, and I could only get it post closing.
Purchasing direct thru Disney, I received POS for my specific resort as well as Member Benefits info, etc. Again, none of this was furnished by two different resales companys. Their response to acquiring this info..."This needs to be provided by the seller." There were only a few things that I wasn't totally aware of, and my guide really did a great job at the inital tour. This may be why many folks here seemed uninformed.

 

[Tamplain]

I guess we were lucky, before we bought I asked our guide about points changing & he explained that the total points for a resort for a total year would not change but they could be reallocated into different days/weeks.

Yes you were lucky. In my discussions with guide was told that the points would not change. I asked about similar because I was looking at the charts thinking I buy 200 points and that gives me a week in a 1 bedroom during certain seasons. Was sent points list via email and told to base my points purchase on how long I would be staying for my vacation. I said most probably 1 week. Was told 200 would cover it and that I was safe since the points as I saw them on the list would never change per night.

I almost went into it but decided to hold out. Now in hindsight If I would have purchased at 160 or 200 I would not have enough based on the new changes. Whether the guide new this change was coming I don't know but that is not sitting well with me right now and has really put the resale purchase we had been looking at on the back burner. As someone said in another post if they have changed this now how much more would I need in the coming future as I had no plans to buy more points for stay each year.

Resale agent also just recently informed they are being flooded with request to sell DVC contracts and all of the small contracts were being scooped up very fast. Wonder if this has anything to do with the changes just made and now people need more points.

Oh well was still on the fence but now back down on the other side for a while to watch some more.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I'm sorry but it's more complicated than that.

You have to do as Dean said and calculate day by day. There are too many variables, like the shift of the weekends year to year, season to season.

I did this in an excel spreadsheet. The results below are for total points for all units, 365 days with the studios/1br split as such.

2009 Total Points = 15,017,316
2010 Total Points = 15,028,644



A total difference of +11,328 or 0.075%

I'd say it's pretty well balanced.

Edit: I should mention that this is for SSR.

 

[Sammie]

Hey Sammie, Thanks... I don't remember it that way, but I am not a real good reader. So, if I am wrong... wouldn't be the (many numbers) time. Need to be more careful about what I know and what I THINK I know.

no problem and with all the confusion even MS might be wrong.

 

[Dean]

Yes I understand that but I think you have not understood my math.

I went through each room category and did a simple equation of increase or decrease in weekly total.

I doubt it is exact nor would I expect it to be absolute. I'd expect it to be off by a few points as it will vary one year to another based on leap year and what day of the week the year starts on.

Honestly, the reason I'm not all bothered by the 13 month rule is that it doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect me because I own multiple weeks already. I have yet to be able to snag a holiday week in Hawaii however because I do not own there. Had I desired to purchase there I'd significantly increase my chances. The 13 month rule doesn't help me or hurt me.

That's been one of my major points that whether this hurts or help you really should not come into play as to the reasonableness of the change. Still, owning multiple weeks doesn't matter unless you reserve them concurrently or consecutively.

The one thing you seem to want to overlook is that the weekly totals have changed significantly enough that a week at DVC has decreased to 6 days for many.

I don't overlook it and I do care. However, I do not think it has any place in the reasonableness of the decision. A maximum reallocation would have likely limited you to 4 or 5 days instead of 6, the issue would be no different.

But because they've bungled this and seem to be willfully cheating me and others out of their usage, my faith in the company is hanging by a thread. I don't wish to enter into more contracts with them.

There's no cheating here, simply doing the job they were contracted to do, no more and no less. Other than the unfortunate timing in regards to those that have already bought BLT, I'm not sure the timing is an issue either. As long as the change occurs before the 11 month window opens, that is sufficient time to allow for reservations. Asking them to announce an extra 6-12 months ahead of the year in question is an unreasonable expectation IMO.

Overall it seems the ones making these decisions are the ones counting on sales as their bottom line. So the best way I can make a statement to them (other than send off my e-mails and letters of complaint) is to not add to their sales anymore than I have. That also means they lose me as a free PR person. I'm more likely to warn prospective buyers from the program than toward it.

Do you really think this is a sales ploy and do you think this will make any dent in their sales at all. I say no on both counts whether you add on or not.

 

[ashbradnmom]

Ok this point is really bugging the heck out of me. The point totals ARE NOT the same for the entire SSR chart. There is a net difference shifting more points needed to cover all the smaller (studio to treehouse villas) rooms with a slight decrease in Grand Villas and Dedicated 2bedrooms. But overall, DVC seems to have manufactured several thousand points due from members for equal stays.

This was not a balanced change. If it was, then you would see weekly totals for a given unit balance out to 0 difference among the season. Instead we find plus numbers in all but two of the 5 columns. And the units covered in those two decreased columns are less than 1/3 of the entire resort stock.

Someone show me numbers that disprove my math.

not to defend it but the points for the treehouse villas have not been sold yet.

 

[Dean]

When we bought resales, two separate company's DID NOT furnish the POS. Ihad to specifically request it, and I could only get it post closing.
Purchasing direct thru Disney, I received POS for my specific resort as well as Member Benefits info, etc. Again, none of this was furnished by two different resales companys. Their response to acquiring this info..."This needs to be provided by the seller." There were only a few things that I wasn't totally aware of, and my guide really did a great job at the inital tour. This may be why many folks here seemed uninformed.

But legally if you buy resale you are blindly assuming the limitations placed on the original buyer. And many companies won't even give you a POS if you ask as a resale buyer. It's up to the seller, not the broker, to give it to you if they have it and see fit.

 

[FuzzyMelton]

Jeez people, this is turning into a whine-fest over 2-4 points per year (Edit: or per vacation). What is WRONG with you people?

2-4 points? HUH? More like 16-20 and that is 10% of my contract! See again some of you don't fully understand....

I would have accepted this much better if Disney had not surprised us. There was no notifications or advanced warnings. A simple letter or e-mail would have been much better in breaking this news in.

 

[ashbradnmom]

It just seems to me that people are comparing buying a week at a traditional timeshare to buying points at dvc. Points are about flexibility not about i get this week at this time every year guaranteed.

 

[Dean]

It just seems to me that people are comparing buying a week at a traditional timeshare to buying points at dvc. Points are about flexibility not about i get this week at this time every year guaranteed.

I didn't miss the irony here. Many have touted DVC as being better because it was flexible and different and at times reacted negatively when I compared it to other timeshares. Interesting to hear some saying that other timeshares are better using the same logic. DVC remains what it always has been, a specialty product who's value is the flexibility and on property locations and only a good choice for a select subset of people. Does it fit for everyone today that it did 48 hours ago, likely not, and the same will be true for every change that occurs and has occured. However, it is better today for some that it was not before.

 

[FuzzyMelton]

I did this in an excel spreadsheet. The results below are for total points for all units, 365 days with the studios/1br split as such.

2009 Total Points = 15,017,316
2010 Total Points = 15,028,644



A total difference of +11,328 or 0.075%

I'd say it's pretty well balanced.

Edit: I should mention that this is for SSR.

DOES NOT CHANGE MEANS DOES NOT CHANGE. That means even one point. I would love to have those 11,328 points you are blowing off. If the average vacation contract was 200 points, that is 56 extra contracts, or if the average person was now short by 2 points that is 5664 people that have to re-adjust their vacations. Maybe you should think this through.

WALT WOULD BE TURNING OVER IN HIS GRAVE!

 

[Disney MAINEiac]

while I haven't had a chance to really compare the new charts, (if they end up being what have been posted in this thread), to the points used for past trips, I don't think it will have a huge impact to the way we travel now. we bought enough points to do about 10-days to make the airfare worthwhile for us. we can't justify multiple trips unless we are heading down for some other reason.

we intentionally bought a few more points than we would use in a year so we bank about 10 - 20 point on average which allows us to take a full two weeks in some years

 

[BeccaG]

Why wasn't this change brought up at hte member meeting in December? Isn't that what those meetings are for?

Now that is the million dollar question. . but could you imagine all of this (the thread) at the meeting? They would not do this at the meeting because they would have feared for their lives!!!

 

[DVC92]

If the POS states that the total points overall must remain the same, and you are positive that this is simply not the case, you should file a complaint with the Florida Timeshare Bureau. The reallocation would still take place, but a small point adjustment would be required. Also, since a year has 365 days, there could be an extra weekend day in 2010 which could explain the point differential. Complaining to DVC will get no response or any positive action.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

DOES NOT CHANGE MEANS DOES NOT CHANGE. That means even one point. I would love to have those 11,328 points you are blowing off. If the average vacation contract was 200 points, that is 56 extra contracts, or if the average person was now short by 2 points that is 5664 people that have to re-adjust their vacations. Maybe you should think this through.

WALT WOULD BE TURNING OVER IN HIS GRAVE!

Of course I was doing a rough calculation I may not be entirely accurate. There is one variable at SSR that I'm not sure how they account for, that being the lock-offs. A lock-off booked as a studio & 1BR commands more points than one booked as a two bedroom.

I also posted the difference as a percentage, which is much more telling of the change than the 11,000 point difference. The total change is less than 1/10th of one percent. I'm sure that it would be impossible to reallocate the point charts to the point, I'm sure it wasn't reallocated to the point last time they adjusted them either.

Since there is something like a minimum of 2% (if I remember correctly) of the total points held from sale, I'm sure the .075% difference will not be a factor. DVD isn't making any more money off this, there are only a certain amount of points available for sale no matter how they reallocate the chart, and these have been sold (except for the new points available from the THV)

 

[jamstew]

I fail to see how this change will make one bit of difference to weekend demand. I suspect very few people bookended a week with weekends. The point decrease on weekends does not equate to the point increase in weekdays. So even if you were able to bank a few points on your stay it is not enough to cover a full day's usage at any time. People will be flocking to the same travel patterns, just with much less enthusiasm for the company and a sense of being pressured.

I think you're exactly right about that. I'm one of the small contract, Sunday to Friday people, and the change isn't going to change my travel pattern. Weekend nights are still more points than I choose to spend, so I'll be staying in a value for 3-4 nights on one end of each trip. I'm not happy that my two 5-night trips went up a total of 15 points. I can live with it, but I'm definitely going to grumble about it.

 

[tidefan]

DOES NOT CHANGE MEANS DOES NOT CHANGE. That means even one point. I would love to have those 11,328 points you are blowing off. If the average vacation contract was 200 points, that is 56 extra contracts, or if the average person was now short by 2 points that is 5664 people that have to re-adjust their vacations. Maybe you should think this through.

WALT WOULD BE TURNING OVER IN HIS GRAVE!

Well, this isn't probably exactly right either because not all studios and 1-Bedrooms are counted as such, some are counted as 2 Bedroom lockoffs. Note that a studio+1 Bedroom does not equal a 2 bedroom pointswise, so I think that those calculations are going to be off a bit as there is probably some proportional allocation between studios, one bedrooms and 2 bedroom lockoffs.

 

[tidefan]

Of course I was doing a rough calculation I may not be entirely accurate. There is one variable at SSR that I'm not sure how they account for, that being the lock-offs. A lock-off booked as a studio & 1BR commands more points than one booked as a two bedroom.

I also posted the difference as a percentage, which is much more telling of the change than the 11,000 point difference. The total change is less than 1/10th of one percent. I'm sure that it would be impossible to reallocate the point charts to the point, I'm sure it wasn't reallocated to the point last time they adjusted them either.

Since there is something like a minimum of 2% (if I remember correctly) of the total points held from sale, I'm sure the .075% difference will not be a factor. DVD isn't making any more money off this, there are only a certain amount of points available for sale no matter how they reallocate the chart, and these have been sold (except for the new points available from the THV)

Nevermind my previous post, you beat me to it...

 

[SharonS]

Perhaps people should think back to when DVC first started. I believe that at the time, the minimum points to buy in was somewhere around 240?? To me, it was obvious that the original intent was that people would basically buy points for a full 1 week stay. However, in order to increase sales, as the price per point rose, they decreased the minimum number of points required to buy in.

I think that now they have too many members who bought small contracts, planning on only 5 night stays and as a result, are not having availablility for those who want to stay a full 7 nights. This probably came to light more when the changes to the booking policies were changed.