Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[Inkmahm]

I am truly enjoying reading about why everyone thinks DVC did what they did. It reminds me of trying to figure out why my one of my 16 yr olds did something. All I can say is " good luck"! We're probably not even close.

I do have a question for the very smart folks on this board who seem to have the POS memorized. I know that DVC can raise points 20% per year so at some point they can even out weekdays and weeknights but can they go to a one week only reservation system? This would in effect do away with our point system. Now, I admit to only reading the POS before signing it, so forgive my ignorance on this subject but if I see a trend towards this, DVC will no longer hold any appeal for me.

Yes, they can. And no, it wouldn't "do away" with the point system because each week could and probably would still be a different point value depending on the time of year.

I wouldn't like that change at all, but I realize there is a chance it could be made in the future.

 

[twinklebug]

In the last few years it has become apparent that DVC does what they do because of Greed. DVC has gone from a small Disney unit to a major revenue stream and now they want to cut and adjust to make even more money.

Nothing just happens at Disney. Every change, every adjustment, is well thought out and planned for well in advance. The way that they make changes with no advanced warning is done for a reason.

I really wish that they would focus more on the membership and infrastructure, and less on sales. They really need to fix what they have before they grow more.

I agree. DVC, as much as we love it, is a business. I highlighted your one statement that stands out in this case of the missing 2001 charts: I believe everything is well thought out and they do things for a reason. It's possible, someone at DVC may have accidentally posted those charts, or they may have posted them for just long enough for few members to see them and tell the world and reign in some feedback. However, I don't think they were counting on digital copies being made.

Hm. We'll never know. As a tech, knowing how easy it is to post something on the wrong server at the wrong time, I favor the 1st option: 'twas an accident. LOL.

 

[Kmango]

In the last few years it has become apparent that DVC does what they do because of Greed. DVC has gone from a small Disney unit to a major revenue stream and now they want to cut and adjust to make even more money.

Nothing just happens at Disney. Every change, every adjustment, is well thought out and planned for well in advance. The way that they make changes with no advanced warning is done for a reason.

I really wish that they would focus more on the membership and infrastructure, and less on sales. They really need to fix what they have before they grow more.

First of all, DVD is SUPPOSED to make money. So is Disney. Their attempts to do so are not 'greed.' The primary responsibility of a company is, within the realm of legal behavior, to return a profit to its investors/shareholders, not to make people feel warm and fuzzy. Now, one of the best ways to do the former is to do the latter, but not always. Foremost, the business must sustain itself. If it doesn't, then the investors lose their money AND the public loses their warm-fuzzies.

Similarly, it's not greedy for DVC to attempt to equally represent the interests of ALL of its owners. Under the old system, some people were getting a large number of days for a disproportionately small number of points, some people were getting a small number of days for a disproportionately large number of points, and some people were getting shut-out entirely. It would be irresponsible for DVC not to attempt to re-balance the system. If Disney makes more money from these changes, it will be a natural result of the system working as it should, not greed.

Similarly, the

 

[TIGGERmetoo]

By being a new DVC member (just purchase BLT in Oct) I do feel disappointed that the point chart is changing before it even opens, however I don't see it being a problem for us personally. It has been very interesting reading this whole thread and I'm sorry for those who have to re-think their vacation plans.

 

[OKW Lover]

Sorry, I have to disagree with all those that are calling this a point increase.

I just went through and compared my 2008 actual point usage to what it would be in 2010 if I stayed the same season/nights/day of week/size of unit. In other words, the only variable is the points per night. In my case its an actual 4.79% decrease in the required number of points.

My 2008 visits included OKW, BWV, BCV, SSR & VWL and the unit size included some studio, 1BR and 2BR stays. Some visits included weekends. A very large mix of stays.

I don't know how well this will come out here in the post but below is a cut and paste from my spreadsheet.

Accommodations 2008 Stay 2010 Stay Change
Start Date Points Start Date Points Points Percent
1 BR at Boardwalk Garden/Pool (Sunday - Wednesday) Jan 20, 2008 66 Jan 17, 2010 57 -9 -13.64%
1 BR at BCV (Saturday - Wednesday) May 3, 2008 140 May 1, 2010 143 3 2.14%
2 BR at SSR (Tuesday & Wednesday) Aug 19, 2008 62 Aug 17, 2010 72 10 16.13%
2 BR at SSR (Saturday) Aug 23, 2008 65 Aug 21, 2010 53 -12 -18.46%
1 BR at Boardwalk Garden/Pool (Sunday - Wednesday) Oct 12, 2008 72 Oct 10, 2010 63 -9 -12.50%
Studio at OKW (Friday) Dec 12, 2008 20 Dec 10, 2010 16 -4 -20.00%
Studio at VWL (Saturday & Sunday) Dec 13, 2008 34 Dec 11, 2010 33 -1 -2.94%
Total 459 437 -22 -4.79%

This would make more sense if I could figure out how to insert tabs, sorry.

 

[jarestel]

50 years is a long time for anything to remain in a static condition, and if we've learned anything over the past few years it's that DVC has the ability to modify, with specific limited exceptions as spelled out in the contract documents, practically any parts of the DVC system they choose. At the risk of stating the obvious, the DVC system of the "old days" when membership was small just doesn't work for today's members, numbering in the hundreds of thousands (and growing).

It's reasonable to assess changes to determine how and to what extent the changes will affect a member's personal situation. However, IMO, it's unreasonable to expect that the DVC system in place at the time an individual member signed purchase documents will be the same system for the life of the contract.

Of course, in determining how many points to purchase, one can only estimate based on the information available at the time, ie current points charts. If the charts change, which it appears they now have, it's time for a new plan. Re-assessment on everything from vacation habits to whether DVC still works for the specific member.

For potential DVC buyers seeking advice, it's as important to make them aware of the very real possibility that the DVC they purchase today will in all likelihood not be the DVC they own tomorrow. Unfortunately, for the most part, we've not done a good job of communicating anything but cost savings and pixie dust to prospective buyers and that probably contributes to much of the disappointment when changes do occur. With growth comes loss of flexibility. Unfortunate, but inevitable.

 

[KLR-wlv]

Sorry, I have to disagree with all those that are calling this a point increase.

I just went through and compared my 2008 actual point usage to what it would be in 2010 if I stayed the same season/nights/day of week/size of unit. In other words, the only variable is the points per night. In my case its an actual 4.79% decrease in the required number of points.

My 2008 visits included OKW, BWV, BCV, SSR & VWL and the unit size included some studio, 1BR and 2BR stays. Some visits included weekends. A very large mix of stays.

I don't know how well this will come out here in the post but below is a cut and paste from my spreadsheet.

Accommodations 2008 Stay 2010 Stay Change
Start Date Points Start Date Points Points Percent
1 BR at Boardwalk Garden/Pool (Sunday - Wednesday) Jan 20, 2008 66 Jan 17, 2010 57 -9 -13.64%
1 BR at BCV (Saturday - Wednesday) May 3, 2008 140 May 1, 2010 143 3 2.14%
2 BR at SSR (Tuesday & Wednesday) Aug 19, 2008 62 Aug 17, 2010 72 10 16.13%
2 BR at SSR (Saturday) Aug 23, 2008 65 Aug 21, 2010 53 -12 -18.46%
1 BR at Boardwalk Garden/Pool (Sunday - Wednesday) Oct 12, 2008 72 Oct 10, 2010 63 -9 -12.50%
Studio at OKW (Friday) Dec 12, 2008 20 Dec 10, 2010 16 -4 -20.00%
Studio at VWL (Saturday & Sunday) Dec 13, 2008 34 Dec 11, 2010 33 -1 -2.94%
Total 459 437 -22 -4.79%

This would make more sense if I could figure out how to insert tabs, sorry.

Your 1 br points are incorrect at BW - they increase by 2 points per night in January 2010 so it is an INCREASE of 6 points - not a decrease. I do believe ALL weekday points went up (except for GV at AKV). Your Oct BW trip goes UP by 9 points as well in 2010

 

[DisneyQueen1320]

I'm trying to look on the bright side. It's not bad staying for one weekend night, our flights are cheaper if you leave Mon and return Sat. But I really do think they should have gave more notice about this.

 

[chalee94]

Gouging in comparison to weekdays and yes, I did. I've said that over and over. I also accepted that the points could change in the future because I actually read the paperwork that I signed when I bought DVC. I'm happy for the changes announced today.

of course, you're happy. the changes benefit you. that's nice for you.

i'm just suggesting that your advice to others to suck it up and deal because it's the "same" as your situation is not true at all.

you had time to consider whether DVC was worth it to you at the inflated weekend rates before you signed. the point charts were the same for a long time. these new charts were changed on pretty short notice - maybe you could be so generous as to give the sun-thurs folks at least a few days to adapt to the new rules.

(BTW, bragging to the n00bs that you "actually read the paperwork" is similarly unhelpful. i was aware that although the point charts hadn't changed in over a decade that they could change at any time - and i'd agree that it's best for DVC to make the change if demand is out of whack - but it's still an agitation and effectively a cost increase. so even if you "accepted" that the points could change, try to imagine how you'd feel if weekend costs had been increased - and then sit back and let people rant a little.)

Exactly. The rules were not changed at all.

seriously?

was the waitlist change a "rule change?" was changing booking dates from check-out to check-in a "rule change?"

most of us are pretty clear that we're playing disney's version of calvinball here and the only hard and fast rule is that disney can change the rules. if you're really that hung up about the word "rule", please let me know if it's more correctly termed a "policy" change or what precisely...

 

[OKW Lover]

Your 1 br points are incorrect at BW - they increase by 2 points per night in January 2010 so it is an INCREASE of 6 points - not a decrease. I do believe ALL weekday points went up (except for GV at AKV). Your Oct BW trip goes UP by 9 points as well in 2010

I checked this when I saw your post. I believe my calculation is correct. The 1BR unit was a standard view and did cost me 66 points in 2008. In 2010, a January stay will be 19 points per night in a standard view, or 57 points for three nights.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFan]

When we bought BCV in 2002, we decided 210 pts were perfect for us. We thought our trips would likely be during magic season and that 6 nights would give us enough time at WDW (6 nights during magic season = 210 pts). NOW 6 nights during magic season is 220 pts! What happened to the Disney promise that vacation charts WILL NEVER CHANGE?! We have friends who bought the exact same time we did and they also bought 210 pts for the same reason. Although both families have older kids with many activities and our WDW trips can be at any time of the year and are often just long weekends, I am still disappointed in Disney. What is the next "promise" they will break re our DVC membership?

 

[OKW Lover]

When we bought BCV in 2002, we decided 210 pts were perfect for us. We thought our trips would likely be during magic season and that 6 nights would give us enough time at WDW (6 nights during magic season = 210 pts). NOW 6 nights during magic season is 220 pts! What happened to the Disney promise that vacation charts WILL NEVER CHANGE?! We have friends who bought the exact same time we did and they also bought 210 pts for the same reason. Although both families have older kids with many activities and our WDW trips can be at any time of the year and are often just long weekends, I am still disappointed in Disney. What is the next "promise" they will break re our DVC membership?

Disney did not promise that the number of points per night would never change. Go back and read the contract you signed, its specifically stated in there that they can reallocate the number of points per night but that only the total number of points per year can not change.

 

[KLR-wlv]

I checked this when I saw your post. I believe my calculation is correct. The 1BR unit was a standard view and did cost me 66 points in 2008. In 2010, a January stay will be 19 points per night in a standard view, or 57 points for three nights.

In the current 2008 point chart a standard view 1 br for the whole month of January staying sunday for 3 nights would cost 16 points per night = 48 points. In 2010 the same unit is 19 points per night so 54 points. Only the preferred view for 3 nights would have cost you 66 points. And in 2010 that would be 72 points, or 24 points per night. I think you are comparing the preferred view in 08 to the standard view in 10 (which is 19 per night, but was only 16 per night in 08)

Perhaps MS charged you for a preferred view in 08 when you thought you booked a standard view??

 

[msteddom]

I am another one who likes to vacation Sun.-Thurs., not only because of the lower points, but because five nights is a great length of time, and it gives you Sat. to prepare for vacation and the next weekend to recover. I am disappointed in the changes, but I'm not angry. I have always thought that weekend points were ridiculous, and Disney has corrected that, the only way they can. I do think the way they handled it was horrible though, we should have had a few months notice. So am I disappointed, yes. Will I sell my contract in protest, not by a long shot.

Melissa

 

[Belle & Ariel]

Disney is struggling?
Have you seen Iger's compensation for last year? Wanna take bets on what it will be this year?

A company that is in the business of customer service better make sure they are pleasing their customers. If not, there's a good chance they may run into a few problems.

And if it were your company would you let it continually lose money?
And many are pleased with the change. The problem is you can't please everyone and maximize profits at the same time.

 

[DisFlan]

Just a random thought here, but does anyone actually know how low the actual weekend usage was/is? Was it really bad enough to warrant all the sturm und drang and bad PR this thing is generating, especially with the current economic conditions and the other recent DVC changes?

If enough members shorten their trips by a day or two, it may make for less generated revenue in the long run. Not to mention the people who won't be buying more points because of the 100 pt. minimum - or don't want to feel pressured into doing add-ons. Or simply can't afford it right now.

The other thing that comes to mind is that DVC sales to both new and current members are likely quite a bit lower than had been projected a year or two ago. I'm not at all certain that re-jiggering points, upping point costs or the required minimum add-on purchase will help sales. And all this is happening in a short span of time - at the wrong time in a bad economy. (If they waited this long to change the point structure, including a couple of economic downturns, why not wait a couple more years? Or when the economy improves a bit?)

We'll have to wait and see if this bid for more revenue works. I want DVC to succeed, but at the moment, I'm a bit grumpy with them.

DisFlan

 

[kikiq]

Thank you for getting it, I'd rather help you than make you feel warm and fussy. Think of me as your older brother.

Well, since I don't have an older brother, you'll do
I certainly would consider you straight forward and helpful. Let me take care of the warm and fuzzy. I'm good at it DVC was eventually a "warm and fuzzy" decision by my DH based on his horrified reaction to our expensive Poly vacation. And as much as I would love to have VGC points, I'm not convinced with the high point chart it's worth it for us.

 

[FuzzyMelton]

Disney did not promise that the number of points per night would never change. Go back and read the contract you signed, its specifically stated in there that they can reallocate the number of points per night but that only the total number of points per year can not change.

YES THEY DID DURING THE SALES PRESENTATION!!!!!!!! I guess you are just not listening. They represented Disney and everyone planned on how many points to buy using their point charts.

I love Disney too but STOP being such a ! What they did was wrong and affects far to many people in the wrong way! Like the other person said, "Just because it's legal doesn't make it right....!"

 

[MiaSRN62]

Fortunately, we feel our membership is still one of the best purchases for our family. We based our purchases on magic season (2x in 3 years). That way, if we didn't travel in magic, we automatically gained a cushion. Ideally we had enough points to go EVERY year in adventure, without banking/borrowing. Now, we'll have to borrow every year to do that--1pt in 2010, 2pts in 2011, etc. So, it's definitely not the end of the world for us. We'll make it work.

As with most changes, taking the emotion out of the situation is key to figuring out how to adjust. It's just so easy to be overcome by frustration and anger! I hope we are done with the surprises for now--I'm not sure I could take anymore!!!

Sure...I agree with Dean in that this is a "nice post" by dizznee. But to be fair and to put it in perspective, you also are not losing as much as some of us. If you are only having to borrow 1-2 points, you've got it better than ALOT of us. And you have the ability to travel in Adventure season. I know people here will say it's a choice....but in the real world it is not a choice to remove kids from school work, sports, job issues.....it's just not. Can't put our whole life in turmoil because I have the choice to save points and go in off season. I wish it were that easy for some of us--as I'm having to borrow 30 points every year.
So I see a trend....if this new allocation doesn't alter people's plans much.....or they save points....or don't have to borrow too many points, they are fine and accepting of it & prasing DVC/DVD for it. And that's fine. I guess I'd be feeling warm and fuzzy about it as well if I was saving points. But not all of us are capable of writing "nice" posts when this is all just hitting us in the last 24 hours. We need time to digest and adjust......some of us are going through a wide range of emotions (regardless of whether we KNEW DVC had this right). Several of us are being challenged and accused of just not wanting to vacation in slow season (i.e. making that choice)....or accused of not reading fine print.....or accused of "taking advantage" of the weekday point system. Come on....this is obviously going to get some of us even more emotional than we already are about this. It's putting some of us in a defensive mode (defending why we can't pull kids out of school etc). Those of us paying a high price for this allocation, just really need some understanding and time to work through all this and adjust our vacation patterns. Not necessarily the easiest thing to do. We are feeling that our Membership has lost "value" for our families (not talking about resale value).
Thanks for listening...........
Maria

 

[Inkmahm]

of course, you're happy. the changes benefit you. that's nice for you.

i'm just suggesting that your advice to others to suck it up and deal because it's the "same" as your situation is not true at all.

you had time to consider whether DVC was worth it to you at the inflated weekend rates before you signed. the point charts were the same for a long time. these new charts were changed on pretty short notice - maybe you could be so generous as to give the sun-thurs folks at least a few days to adapt to the new rules.

(BTW, bragging to the n00bs that you "actually read the paperwork" is similarly unhelpful. i was aware that although the point charts hadn't changed in over a decade that they could change at any time - and i'd agree that it's best for DVC to make the change if demand is out of whack - but it's still an agitation and effectively a cost increase. so even if you "accepted" that the points could change, try to imagine how you'd feel if weekend costs had been increased - and then sit back and let people rant a little.)



seriously?

was the waitlist change a "rule change?" was changing booking dates from check-out to check-in a "rule change?"

most of us are pretty clear that we're playing disney's version of calvinball here and the only hard and fast rule is that disney can change the rules. if you're really that hung up about the word "rule", please let me know if it's more correctly termed a "policy" change or what precisely...

I disagree. We all got the same paperwork to read when we purchased DVC. We were/are all in the same situation but that situation will not affect us all the same. Not my issue if some people wanted to believe what they were told by guides vs what their own eyes could read if they took the time to read what they were signing.

Call it whatever you want, but Disney played by the rules.